[onewizard]

Dyno Chart / Gen #2 &#3 / 5th gear / Comparison

Work In Progress. V650, an interesting dyno chart done at 1/2 throttle comparing the gen 2 ecu, the gen 3 ecu and new flash, 5th gear roll on from 35 mph

 

[Steve in Sunny Fl]

remember, this is at 1/2 throttle, starting at 35 mph in 5th gear. just like a brisk accel on the street, but not really getting into it hard.

Blue is tuned 2015, red is stock 2015, green is stock gen 2

 

[16VGTIDave]

That green line doesn't make me happy. But it is nice to see that it was tested. Gives me hope that here may be a tune for the gen2 bikes some day.

Thanks for posting this!

 

[Steve in Sunny Fl]

Let me explain the relevance. Since this is at 1/2 throttle, obviously we aren't looking to see peak power production, so we aren't looking around 8500-9000 area. As you see here, the peak power is just over 7000 rpm. Think about doing an acceleration and upshifting gear / gear / gear to gain speed. You would be reaching peak power just over 7000, so that would be the place to shift, or just after it. When viewed in that manner you can see how each bike would perform comparatively. The more power, the quicker you'll accelerate and go through the gears. This is power you can feel.

For those who had the gen 2 and now the gen 3, you can see where the bikes are similar in power, and where they diverge.

 

[fasteddiecopeman]

Thanks for adding those "pulls" to the Forum!

 

[hawkerjet]

Anyone got any intel on when the looooooooooooooooooooooooong awaited super flash will be available for public consumption?

I may have to get one of these suits when I get "Flashed"...Lol.

 

[fasteddiecopeman]

Anyone got any intel on when the looooooooooooooooooooooooong awaited super flash will be available for public consumption?

I may have to get one of these suits when I get "Flashed"...Lol.

Tim - I'd be VERY concerned as to WHO was "flashing" me...!

>

 

[onewizard]

Booster Plug

FYI initially I deleted this post as the information was sent to me in a PM from a question I asked, so technically this is proprietary info from Steve in Sunny FL, he has given me the go ahead to restore this post, post 111
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I thought I would share this, as some days I come up with ideas, then never get back to explore further. One such idea was contained in this thread,

https://www.kawasakiversys.com/foru...tions-performance-v-650/204313-boosterplug-opinions.html?highlight=booster+plug
I never followed through as I knew the contents of this thread with a new Flash was in works, plus I waited so long to ride the bike into late June 2018, I decided against screwing with it.

So I decided to contact someone with far more knowledge into this aspect than I have, basically not a I think but I know , yes I am referring to Steve, so I thought I would share his reply, basically confirms what I suspected all along, but with far more detail.I am also copying this post to Boosterplug thread.

This was my question:
My question is the intake air temperature directly related to fuel mixture & timing, as that is what it seems as to booster plugs. Since I knew your flash was in the works I never bothered to try adding a resistor to change air temp reading input ( discussed later on in that thread under experiment here I come).

And his answer:
Yes, there's an ambient condition sensor that will richen the fuel as needed with outside cooler temps. That's what the booster plug is doing. the problem is that there is a weird fueling strategy in the ecu that has both cylinders operating with different fuel charts, and they switch, where one is richer and the other leaner for a couple thousand rpm, and then they reverse. There are areas where I've taken considerable fuel out... so in that area the booster plug would be adding fuel... not a strategy I think is viable.

 

[Steve in Sunny Fl]

I'm finding myself in a tough situation.

to my knowledge, I'm the first person, at least in the US, to flash the V650. as such, i can answer questions that many enthusiasts have wanted answered for a long time. But because I'm trying to stay within forum rules, I'm afrain to even be part of the discussion, for fear of being seen as propagating sales. The end result is folks are emailing and pm'ing me, so rather than the community gaining knowledge, it's just an individual here or there. Seems strange to be asked a question by PM, only to have the answer then posted for all.

I think the difference here is that if something is a sidestand extender or that type of farkle, folks don't need to ask Q's, they know what it is when they see it. Flashing is a whole 'nother animal, in that the ecu is the mystery machine... the black box. Like a magic trick folks always want to know "how did you do that". I have no problem letting folks behind the curtain some, but in this case, it appears I can't due to forum rules.

 

[onewizard]

Super Moderator / Editing Myself

I'm finding myself in a tough situation.

to my knowledge, I'm the first person, at least in the US, to flash the V650. as such, i can answer questions that many enthusiasts have wanted answered for a long time. But because I'm trying to stay within forum rules, I'm afrain to even be part of the discussion, for fear of being seen as propagating sales. The end result is folks are emailing and pm'ing me, so rather than the community gaining knowledge, it's just an individual here or there. Seems strange to be asked a question by PM, only to have the answer then posted for all.

I think the difference here is that if something is a sidestand extender or that type of farkle, folks don't need to ask Q's, they know what it is when they see it. Flashing is a whole 'nother animal, in that the ecu is the mystery machine... the black box. Like a magic trick folks always want to know "how did you do that". I have no problem letting folks behind the curtain some, but in this case, it appears I can't due to forum rules.

So typically I as a member get excited when something new comes along, new information is discovered, that was the case today. As a mod PM are just that, I failed to ask permission to post something which was basically confirmed, what I already was fairly sure was the case.
So rather than edit, I deleted both posts. I can restore and edit them if Steve thinks this is something that would be of benefit, in reality I am glad I logged in and saw this post, as that information is technically the property of Steve in Sunny FL, I got carried away as I think there is a considerable amount of enthusiasm to see this through.

As to forum rules, there is a considerable amount of flexibility, some common sense is required beyond the written rules, which is were us mods come into play.

 

[Steve in Sunny Fl]

Onewizard, as per the last PM I sent, feel free to restore the posts and my responses. I would have answered the same way had I been asked on the open forum.

 

[RoaringTodd]

Well I do have a question - how would a generic ecu reflash be different than installing a Power Commander and adjusting the fuel mapping?

 

[onewizard]

ECU'S / Flashing & Tuning / Versys 650 / Steve

OK here goes, for those that want to show what they got upstairs and those that want to add stuff upstairs, or those that already have their upstairs overflowing.
It was a suggestion of our resident ECU specialist ( not a expert , you know what I say about expert, a specialist is someone that specializes in this field , is continuously learning and will never know everything there is to know about it, a expert is someone that thinks they know everything there is to know about the subject and already knows everything about the subject, which is why I am a specialist in inverters and not a expert), to start a thread about ECU flashing, about tuning and just about anything concerned with ECU's and tuning .

The only thing I ask is we don't need any smart ass remarks about flashing>, this is to be a friendly discussion, maybe we all could learn something from this. I learn something new every day, one thing I learned was to not do anything complicated when I am tired, problem is I also forget about the same amount I learn each day:surprise:

:welcome::feedback:

 

[onewizard]

OK here goes, for those that want to show what they got upstairs and those that want to add stuff upstairs, or those that already have their upstairs overflowing.
It was a suggestion of our resident ECU specialist ( not a expert , you know what I say about expert, a specialist is someone that specializes in this field , is continuously learning and will never know everything there is to know about it, a expert is someone that thinks they know everything there is to know about the subject and already knows everything about the subject, which is why I am a specialist in inverters and not a expert), to start a thread about ECU flashing, about tuning and just about anything concerned with ECU's and tuning .

The only thing I ask is we don't need any smart ass remarks about flashing>, this is to be a friendly discussion, maybe we all could learn something from this. I learn something new every day, one thing I learned was to not do anything complicated when I am tired, problem is I also forget about the same amount I learn each day:surprise:

:welcome::feedback:

 

[onewizard]

New Thread

Well I do have a question - how would a generic ecu reflash be different than installing a Power Commander and adjusting the fuel mapping?

Hey you could be the first poster if you hurry:
https://www.kawasakiversys.com/foru...orums/170-technical-discussion-v-650/217771-ecus-flashing-tuning-seriously.html

 

[Steve in Sunny Fl]

I'm just going to approach this as trying to dispell myth's and educate some folks. I see threads on the net all the time frought with misconceptions. There's one currently going on this board like that. So rather than me just writing, how about y'all ask questions you may have, and I'll answer to the best of my ability. Generally the answer will lead to more questions, so this should be fun. Steve

 

[Duffy]

Well, I'm not an expert or specialist at anything but I do understand electronics more than most (24 years of working with trons in the USN). The only question I have about the 650 ECU flash is when will it show up as "available" on the Suoudaben web site...........is this a "legal" question to ask?

 

[BigKev]

What can a reprogrammed ecu really accomplish?

What can be reasonably expected from a flashed ecu? If the rest of the powertrain is stock, what can be done? I think the community here really likes the Gen 3 but I find that my 2017 has a snatchy throttle. Open/closed throttle is abrupt and at low speeds makes it hard to ride smoothly. What causes this? Can it be corrected with a flash?
How much power can be uncorked? How much does it cost in fuel economy? What other behaviours are controlled by the ecu?
These are all questions I would have for someone whose speciality is ’ecu’.:smile2:

BTW: I really don’t think anyone has done wrong to the spirit of this forum by attempting to provide information about a beneficial product/service. Let’s keep our hobbies in perspective and not take them, ourselves or our forums, too seriously. My 1.5 cents. (Canadian, eh!)
Cheers!

 

[Steve in Sunny Fl]

Well, I'm not an expert or specialist at anything but I do understand electronics more than most (24 years of working with trons in the USN). The only question I have about the 650 ECU flash is when will it show up as "available" on the Suoudaben web site...........is this a "legal" question to ask?

Well, I guess the question is "legal" but the answer isn't. I'm not trying to advertise nor direct anyone to my site. I'm really just trying to answer Q's folks have. some might want compare a booster plug to ECU tuning... others might want to compare power commanders to ECU tuning. Other yet might not know what flashing is, or why tuning matters. That's what I'm trying to do on this thread. Answer Q's, dispell myths. Let's all learn something. Trust me, I learn from y'all, too. Steve

 

[Steve in Sunny Fl]

What can be reasonably expected from a flashed ecu? If the rest of the powertrain is stock, what can be done? I think the community here really likes the Gen 3 but I find that my 2017 has a snatchy throttle. Open/closed throttle is abrupt and at low speeds makes it hard to ride smoothly. What causes this? Can it be corrected with a flash?
How much power can be uncorked? How much does it cost in fuel economy? What other behaviours are controlled by the ecu?
These are all questions I would have for someone whose speciality is ’ecu’.:smile2:

Cheers!

What can reasonably be expected? That depends on how good or bad the factory tune is. Kawasaki went back on the 2015,-up, changed some stuff, and advertised a 5 hp gain. That doesn't leave room for huge gains in peak power. I think folks need to start looking more at rideability and useful gains in the rpm range you actually ride in. Case in point... the typical dyno run only measures WOT power. it has nothing to do with any other part of the throttle. So if you ride at WOT alot... then a typical dyno run is relevant... if you don't ride on WOT much, then it's not much information.

As far as low speed operation... this ecu isn't particularly advanced, and the low speed tuning isn't targeted well, like other ECU's. That makes tuning the low throttle a real challenge. This is where timing and fueling really need to be explored, and the bike needs to tell the tuner what works. And well, the tuner needs to interpret what the bike is telling him, too. Sometimes that's not easy. I constantly have to develop "experiments" to find out "what happens if". The tuner might think something is going to work, and it doesn't. So you need to be flexible and pay attention. Tuning can help limit or totally get rid of the snatchy throttle. A well sorted tune will have addressed this. But remember, you're always going to be working within the parameters of the ecu and the input controls. And BTW, having the throttle cables properly adjust is a MUST for smooth low throttle control. Remember, YOU are also an input control.

Fuel economy is probably one of the most misunderstood aspects of good tuning. Most folks thin tuning mean worse fuel ecomomy. actually, the opposite is true. good tuning will get better fuel economy. Of course if you're always hammering the throttle because now it's more fun, well, your right hand is the economy killer, not the tune.