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Hi-

The V650 came with a Shinko 705 in front and 805 in the rear. The 805 is getting pretty worn- about 1/2 the tread depth is gone so I'm looking to replace it soon. I guess by default I would tend to go with a Shinko 705 in back. It's probably the cheapest option, and I would have matching tires front and rear.

My riding is probably 90 pavement, 10% gravel/dirt roads, but my emphasis is more on the dirt/gravel, meaning that's where I really want the tire to perform. I don't push the traction hard on the pavement, so the tire needs to be safe and confident there, but not excellent. I'm not too concerned about longevity. I figure the front tire will need replacing in 5-7k miles, so if I can get that same mileage out of the new rear tire I'm setup to do a matched replacement next time. I've also experienced the fact that if you ride on dirt roads here punctures are not unlikely.

The upshot is I'm thinking of something in the range of a 50/50 tire like the 805 to a 80/20 like the 705. I'll probably want to stick to something under $150, since like a lot of folks I'm currently unemployed, and likely will be for awhile. If you've got a particular recommendation for a rear tire please let me know.

Thanks

dm
 

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Hi-

The V650 came with a Shinko 705 in front and 805 in the rear. The 805 is getting pretty worn- about 1/2 the tread depth is gone so I'm looking to replace it soon. I guess by default I would tend to go with a Shinko 705 in back. It's probably the cheapest option, and I would have matching tires front and rear.

My riding is probably 90 pavement, 10% gravel/dirt roads, but my emphasis is more on the dirt/gravel, meaning that's where I really want the tire to perform. I don't push the traction hard on the pavement, so the tire needs to be safe and confident there, but not excellent. I'm not too concerned about longevity. I figure the front tire will need replacing in 5-7k miles, so if I can get that same mileage out of the new rear tire I'm setup to do a matched replacement next time. I've also experienced the fact that if you ride on dirt roads here punctures are not unlikely.

The upshot is I'm thinking of something in the range of a 50/50 tire like the 805 to a 80/20 like the 705. I'll probably want to stick to something under $150, since like a lot of folks I'm currently unemployed, and likely will be for awhile. If you've got a particular recommendation for a rear tire please let me know.

Thanks

dm
The Conti TKC 60 or Timsuns in stock size or the Heidenau K60 Scout and Scout Rock in 170/60.

I think you'll like the Heidenaus; my needs are identical to yours and I am planning to get them after the lockdown lifts.

Price-wise, the Timsuns are likely to be the cheapest of the lot; here in India, a complete set of the Timsuns is cheaper than one of the others with some USD 300 left over.

Some images for you.
 

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The Heidenau gets stellar reviews except on wet pavement. Universally the reviews I've seen have mentioned that. But it gets excellent reviews for dry pavement and for dirt. And it lasts forever according to every review. If you don't plan on much riding in the rain, it could be just the answer.
 

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Useless tires (no grip): heidenau k60, stinko 705

Disappointing tires (seen better): shinko 805, bridgestone ax41

#2: michelin anakee wild (10mm of thread thickness)

#1: motoz tractionator adv (14mm of thread thickness)
 

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@dddd Without qualifying those rankings, your statements are worthless. What are the use scenarios? Street and highway with some gravel? Mostly gravel? Dirt trails? Enduro riding? What is the cost to km’s? Availability?

I thought you were an engineer, you should know better. Not enough coffee?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The Heidenau gets stellar reviews except on wet pavement. Universally the reviews I've seen have mentioned that. But it gets excellent reviews for dry pavement and for dirt. And it lasts forever according to every review. If you don't plan on much riding in the rain, it could be just the answer.
I don't like to ride in rain, but I do live 10 miles north of Seattle... BTW, there's this bright thing in the sky this morning, really hurts my eyes. Does anybody remember what it's called?

dm
 

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...I guess by default I would tend to go with a Shinko 705 in back. It's probably the cheapest option, and I would have matching tires front and rear....
MY personal experience w/ Shinko E705 tires is VG - I've received 16,465 kms [8,988 miles] and 12,870 kms [7,997 miles] from two 150/70 rears (work PDG for ME on dirt roads and pavement!!!), and 30,169 kms [18,746 miles] on a front 120/70. And that's on my BC V650! They are also the tire-of-choice for me in AZ, but the AZ mileage-records are about 1,700 miles S of me right NOW! (There's another pair in my BC shop for when they're needed!)

:yeahsmile:
 

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@dddd Without qualifying those rankings, your statements are worthless. What are the use scenarios? Street and highway with some gravel? Mostly gravel? Dirt trails? Enduro riding? What is the cost to km’s? Availability?

I thought you were an engineer, you should know better. Not enough coffee?
Sure.

Versys 650, doing 2h road (200km?) and 3-4h (100-150km) dirt & rocks & mud & sand & even snow a few times... Always same guy/pace/roads/weight/psi.

I'm like the OP, only interested in offroad behavior. That's why I didn't restate the context.

Here, this is all about the rear tire. The front has so few choices, it's been a tkc80 everytime (except the stinko 705 momentary delusion)


Useless tires (no grip): heidenau k60, stinko 705

* heidenau 150/70 center band slips on just "everything". Can't climb rock, can't get out of the simplest wet grass incline. It's completely tamed in mud and sand by this stip. It look aggressive but it is not at all. Good mileage sure, but if I'm going to suffer form continuous strip, that gum better last 20000km. It really doesn't. It's chewing gum as usual. Lasted about 13000km.

* stinko 705: same behavior, even less in sand or mud. Ejected that crap from my rims a 7000km I think, I really don't care what mileage it could have had. Can't even recall if that was 170/60 or 160/60...Don't care.


Disappointing tires (seen better): shinko 805, bridgestone ax41

* shinko 805 (170/60 I think) rules in sand and rocks. You'd think mud would be a joke but that bar of knobs cause sideways skid, just like many reviewers warned me. I didn't think it would be that bad but it is noticeable. Lasted 9000km.

* bridstone ax41 (170/60): fair grip all directions, Lasted 9000km only. Not acceptable for that price.


#2: michelin anakee wild (10mm of thread thickness)
Tried both 150/70 (9000km) and 170/60 (11000km). That's how I figure the 170 last longer. Grips every way. What you expect from interleaved square knobs. The curves knobs arrangement may play a role in grip and vibration but I have nothing straight to compare, (well maybe I do, because tkc80 front were always quite noisy)

#1: motoz tractionator adv (14mm of thread thickness)
Ongoing. There is a bit less spacing between knobs, thus more gum, and thinker gum too (14mm instead of the usual 9-10 mm). This tire is not pleasant on highway because it is rolling on tall knobs which feels wobbly when input is too harsh. But at low speeds in the trail, this guy is solid. Had it for what, 6000km? and it looks like a new tire of other brands.

Hope this helps.

PS: I skipped the mitas E07 because the pattern is too tight and its knob angle are screaming "skid" (or "stay in the rut, you fool")

(fyi: cost doesn't matter to me, I will bother with cost when there will be actually 2+ good choice; as for availability, that's everyone's research).
 

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Sure.

Versys 650, doing 2h road (200km?) and 3-4h (100-150km) dirt & rocks & mud & sand & even snow a few times... Always same guy/pace/roads/weight/psi.

I'm like the OP, only interested in offroad behavior. That's why I didn't restate the context.

Here, this is all about the rear tire. The front has so few choices, it's been a tkc80 everytime (except the stinko 705 momentary delusion)


Useless tires (no grip): heidenau k60, stinko 705

* heidenau 150/70 center band slips on just "everything". Can't climb rock, can't get out of the simplest wet grass incline. It's completely tamed in mud and sand by this stip. It look aggressive but it is not at all. Good mileage sure, but if I'm going to suffer form continuous strip, that gum better last 20000km. It really doesn't. It's chewing gum as usual. Lasted about 13000km.

* stinko 705: same behavior, even less in sand or mud. Ejected that crap from my rims a 7000km I think, I really don't care what mileage it could have had. Can't even recall if that was 170/60 or 160/60...Don't care.


Disappointing tires (seen better): shinko 805, bridgestone ax41

* shinko 805 (170/60 I think) rules in sand and rocks. You'd think mud would be a joke but that bar of knobs cause sideways skid, just like many reviewers warned me. I didn't think it would be that bad but it is noticeable. Lasted 9000km.

* bridstone ax41 (170/60): fair grip all directions, Lasted 9000km only. Not acceptable for that price.


#2: michelin anakee wild (10mm of thread thickness)
Tried both 150/70 (9000km) and 170/60 (11000km). That's how I figure the 170 last longer. Grips every way. What you expect from interleaved square knobs. The curves knobs arrangement may play a role in grip and vibration but I have nothing straight to compare, (well maybe I do, because tkc80 front were always quite noisy)

#1: motoz tractionator adv (14mm of thread thickness)
Ongoing. There is a bit less spacing between knobs, thus more gum, and thinker gum too (14mm instead of the usual 9-10 mm). This tire is not pleasant on highway because it is rolling on tall knobs which feels wobbly when input is too harsh. But at low speeds in the trail, this guy is solid. Had it for what, 6000km? and it looks like a new tire of other brands.

Hope this helps.

PS: I skipped the mitas E07 because the pattern is too tight and its knob angle are screaming "skid" (or "stay in the rut, you fool")

(fyi: cost doesn't matter to me, I will bother with cost when there will be actually 2+ good choice; as for availability, that's everyone's research).
dddd,

I think you seem to be riding the tyres a wee bit too hard if they, specially the Heidenau, are wearing off so soon.

Unfortunately (and you know it), there is no magic wand tyre that can deal with all kinds of terrain with aplomb, always and every time. Some compromises have to be made; the ideal tyre IS available but for a reasonably narrow band of application. You don't seem to want to compromise which, as an engineer, you will know that every machine is and a tyre is just a machine.

From the video review by Chaparral, it seems that you already have the tyre that suits your needs - the Motoz.

If you go any further for even better grip than the Motoz on dirt and sand and rock and snow and mud, you'll have to go the full knobby route and that is not going to be comfy on the highway.

Some people have cut grooves into that admittedly excellent for highway but terrible for off road Heidenau central strip (and a 170/60 size in that) and have reported excellent results. That is, if you want longevity AND grip. I had that video link but lost it somewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
One thing to note is that currently Revzilla and Cycle Gear show a lot of tires out of stock. I'm guessing due to the current pandemic. The 805 on my rear wheel has about 1/4 inch tread left, but most of the siping is gone. From what I can tell that means it is a bit past 50% of the way to totally worn out. So it looks like I may be riding it for another few months. Dry season coming here anyway.. The price differential between the 705 and 805 is only $13, so if I go with Shinko again I will get another 805. Also going to consider some of the other tires mentioned, and the Mitas E07. But definitely will need to keep budget in mind given that I am unlikely to be working again soon. Thanks for all the input!
 

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One thing to note is that currently Revzilla and Cycle Gear show a lot of tires out of stock. I'm guessing due to the current pandemic. The 805 on my rear wheel has about 1/4 inch tread left, but most of the siping is gone. From what I can tell that means it is a bit past 50% of the way to totally worn out. So it looks like I may be riding it for another few months. Dry season coming here anyway.. The price differential between the 705 and 805 is only $13, so if I go with Shinko again I will get another 805. Also going to consider some of the other tires mentioned, and the Mitas E07. But definitely will need to keep budget in mind given that I am unlikely to be working again soon. Thanks for all the input!
I have found this same problem in Canada. I tried to order a set of Shinko 705's from Fortnine but they are out of stock. I looked up the 805's but they were out of stock too. I emailed them and they replied that they should be restocked 'within the next month'.
 

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I have found this same problem in Canada. I tried to order a set of Shinko 705's from Fortnine but they are out of stock. I looked up the 805's but they were out of stock too. I emailed them and they replied that they should be restocked 'within the next month'.
Have you checked at Pete's Superbike?
 

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I think you seem to be riding the tyres a wee bit too hard if they, specially the Heidenau, are wearing off so soon
I believe I'm on the super gentle side, when I read people only do 5000km with tires for which I do 9000km+. Given I don't change my habit that much, I figure the +4000km extra the heindenau k60 gave is right in the zone for it's center strip. But it's probably not a hard gum like on some touring tires.

Tire mileage comparison requires having something to anchor to. I gave many points, so hopefully people can do the normalization of mileage for their own wrist habit if they have had one of them.

And yes the motoz tractionator adv is smack in the middle of my needs! So happy!
 

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I have found this same problem in Canada. I tried to order a set of Shinko 705's from Fortnine but they are out of stock. I looked up the 805's but they were out of stock too. I emailed them and they replied that they should be restocked 'within the next month'.
Last time I ordered E705s from forTnine I ordered TWO sets, so I have a new 120/70 AND 150/70 waiting till they're needed.

:grin2:
 

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I have found this same problem in Canada. I tried to order a set of Shinko 705's from Fortnine but they are out of stock. I looked up the 805's but they were out of stock too. I emailed them and they replied that they should be restocked 'within the next month'.
Last time I ordered E705s from forTnine I ordered TWO sets, so I have a new 120/70 AND 150/60 waiting till they're needed.

:grin2:
 

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I am no tire guru, so when I recently needed new tires I relied on the inputs from this board. FastEddie has put a lot of miles on those Shinko E705s and always seemed happy with them. Others too on this board liked the Shinkos. So thats what I bought. That tire did very well in the Chapparal comparison (above). I am very happy with the purchase.

I put a hundred miles on them today. Honestly, I was expecting that they would not feel as solid on the street as the factory tires. I couldn't tell a bit of difference. I am looking forward to taking them down some dirt roads soon.
 

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I've run the Shinko 705 and the K60 on a Moto Guzzi Stelvio, not on the Versys.

The K60 scout will last forever but as mentioned it's not a great rain tire and slips on everything non pavement. If you're aware of that in those conditions it's not a big deal. It lasts forever. My friend just replaced his on a Super Tenere after going to Alaska and back from Maine, up to Deadhorse. Tire has 14k Miles on the rear and the front will go over 20k easy. I had similar results on the Stelvio which is much heavier and much more torque than the Versys on a 150/70-17

I've run a few sets of 705 and one set of 805. I liked the 805 but it won't last very long. The 705 was great until after running one across country in AZ for the summer then returning to NY. I've never ever had a tire loose traction like that 705. It was so bad I stopped numerous times convinced I ran through oil. Bad enough I felt it was completely unsafe to ride in wet conditions. I think the tire may have hardened in the AZ heat. I've run Shinko 705/805/009 Raven/005 Advance and 718 in the past and the 705 was the only negative experience, and scary enough that I won't run that tire again.

I've tried the Continental trail attack 3 in Alaska, it's basically a close to street tire but handles well and great in the wet. The Front has 10k miles and will likely go 20k. The rear developed a strange "channel" of wear and caused the front end to wobble. Probably a defective tire. I replaced it on the way back and all wobbles went away. My father used the same tire and it's still going after 10k miles front and rear on a Honda NC700x.
 
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