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Discussion Starter · #461 ·
the wide world of wheel bearings...

the new wheel bearings for the SV and Busa scooter wheels arrived today, gotta get right to it. i could install the SV bearings, but i need a 20mm ID hub spacer before i can install new bearings in the Busa wheel. the Busa uses a 25mm axle, i'm using a 20mm axle, so the new bearings are 20mm ID.

the new rear bearings are All Balls (Chineseum), the fronts are SKF (Bulgaria), while the old SV bearings were NSK (Japan), and the Busa bearings were Koyo (Japan). the old bearings were not sealed, and the NSK were rusty with the carrier bearing frozen. the Koyo bearings were in a little better shape, but also on their way out.

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i don't have a set of bearing drivers, i've always made do with whatever i had on hand in the shop. today i used a couple of oversize sockets, including one used for the front axle nut on vintage Toyota 4x4 trucks, plus a piece of hickory salvaged from a broken axe handle...piece a cake, it all worked perfectly.

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Discussion Starter · #462 ·
the thread will be back on topic shortly, ongoing work on the V649 and Scooter. there's a reason the forum has posted rules for the classified section, the whole seat inquiry was a scam. when i checked postings on the forum, i find that this dude was referred to the this build thread on a FOR SALE item i had listed...please don't do this again.

the big mistake on my part, i was foolish enough to respond at all. i'll bottom line the situation, i got a money request on my PayPal account within hours.
 

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Discussion Starter · #463 ·
diving into the spoke wheel seal, i needed to clean the wheel a half dozen times just to make sure, then scuff the rim around the spoke nipples. there are no dimples on these Sun rims, just angle drilling, in contrast to other high end rims that do have dimples. i don't know what the valley liner looked like in the rear wheel prior to my recent flat, but it occurred to me that the edge of one of these nipples may have worn a hole in the tube.

a Dremel is your friend for this work. buy the accessories in bulk from Amazon, save 90%, you'll use a bunch.





sealing is a two part process for this particular sealing recipe, first Seal All, then Goop. the Seal All is a runny fast dry sealer, important with these rims to get under and around the nipples. the Goop is a lot thicker and is applied over the Seal All. i used two coats of each. because there are no spoke dimples to fill, it seems like the stuff is running all over at first, but in the end, not bad. i used 3 tubes of each total for two wheels.



the wheels need to sit in order for the sealant to dry, then compression type valve stems and tires.
 

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Discussion Starter · #464 ·
set back for another day, the valve stems i had on hand were the wrong ones, they look right, but are no good.

the correct compression type stems are NAPA 90-426, these fit the .33" hole in the rim.



the valve stems also get sealed, so that sealant needs to cure too. now i'm set for tires. note the small bubbles in the Seal All, apparently this is normal, but the Seal All is covered with two applications of Goop. it's hard to produce a nice neat job with this type of liquid sealant, it runs before it sets. it's not supposed to leak, that's the goal, now i'll find out.

 

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Discussion Starter · #466 ·
moto tire chaos...let me summarize the tire situation over the last few weeks.

if one of our local riders serves up a tire or set of tires for cheap or no money, they better be ready for their message notification to come on within about a second, i am on the way over.

first up, a 90% set of Dunlop Missions, great tire, but the rider wanted a street tire on his GSA. 170/60-17 and 120/80-19, perfect for the V649, but wait, i need a big rear tire for the Scooter so that Mission is on the Scooter rear wheel.

second, i blow up the Shinko 170/60 rear on the V649, decided it was a good time to seal the spoked wheels, and swap in new or newer tires. can't use the Mission set, one of those is already on the Scooter, so in comes a new set of Shinko 804/805s in 150/70-17 and 120/80-19. those new tires are now on the sealed spoke wheels of the V649.

third, a rider shows up with a new Shinko 705 in 140/80-17, man gotta have it. the guy was going to use it, but sold the bike before it was ever mounted. this zero mile tire is now on the Busa wheel that is getting used for the Scooter front, that should catch someones hair on fire. i am definitely giving that tire a try, mark it down.

fourth, another rider i know puts up a near new TKC70 in 130/80-17, i'm on a huge roll at this point, and i got that one too. it's backup in case i can't steer the 140/80.

i think i'm good for tires, at least for awhile, but if something real nice comes up in my sizes...

130/80 TKC70 left, 140/80 705 on the right. the 140/80 is another one of them tires that is well received these days in certain circles, it's bi-directional.



the V649 was on the first day trip with newly sealed spoke wheels, about 125 miles, no problems. must have been a source of entertainment for folks to see a moto rollin' along with a spare tire hanging off the back.

 

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Discussion Starter · #467 ·
a little review on how these ER6 ptwin bikes get dismantled...and then slammed back together. some of this was covered previously, but here it is again with some fresh photos.

if you're dismantling or assembling one of these bikes, a hydraulic dirt bike lift will become your best friend. these lifts are found cheap everywhere, there's hardly any reason to buy a new one. i've had mine for years, it was gifted by a rider who quit when the family added a couple kids, thanks again Mike. i reach for that lift every time a ptwin motor comes out or goes in, perfect for the job. you don't need to be building a custom bike, maybe you just want to pull your bike apart in the off season for a necessary front to back maintenance job, or to paint the frame, ya know, actually apply quality paint to the frame, as well as hit all the places that were not painted at the factory.

the front motor mounts are removed, no the motor won't fall out, then the lift is slid in under the motor. blocking is added to support the motor, and keep it steady on the lift, any kind of scrap wood will do. with the lift raised for a test fit, you can see exactly what needs to be done. i don't worry about the oil pan, but do keep weight off the oil filter. the ptwin motor is a 135# lump, it can be man handled, but the lift makes the job super easy. with weight on the lift, the rear motor mount bolts can be removed, and the motor is loose. at this point, it's trapped inside the frame, can't fall over.



the motor on the lift gets jockeyed around to get it on the outside of the frame, so i strap it down on the lift. this lift has convenient flip up tie down hoops. the motor isn't strapped earlier because the motor usually needs a wiggle to get the rear motor mount bolts out.



sprocket wear on the OEM sprocket is consistent with the stated low miles on this parts bike, ya just never know, folks are known to lie. the PO was a lucky guy, note the chain grooves on the sling guard. he was very close to losing the sling guard, the oil tube behind it, and cracking the case beyond repair. this motor got a brand spanking new clutch because "the one that came with it went bad". then the new clutch also "went bad", hmmmm, ya don't think this guy did an oil change with car oil loaded up with friction reducers now do ya? that's exactly what happened, maybe the world needs a red flag restriction on metric wrenches, some people shouldn't be allowed to touch them things.



now the motor is out, but i don't want to wrestle the damn thing every time it gets moved around the shop, so it gets transferred from the lift to one of those cheap HF moving dollies, then strapped down again with blocking underneath. ready to roll.



gotta keep the shop dust off the thing, so it gets covered up, and that reminds me, it's 5 o'clock somewhere, i need one of those frozen drinks that come with the salt and lime...might need 2 or 3. these bikes are fun, that's why it gets a beach towel.

 

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Discussion Starter · #468 ·
with the motor out of the parts bike, now the rest of the bike comes apart, shock, swingarm, and front suspension assembly. the easy way is to support the frame utilizing the transverse open tube through the frame. pipe, tube, bar, anything of correct diameter and length can run through the opening, and then supported. i use an extra tall set of shop built jack stands that were said to have originated in an industrial maintenance shop, very well made, a yard sale find, the guy practically paid me to haul them away, nobody wanted them...except me.



the bike isn't perfectly balanced on the stands, but close enough so that removing the remaining parts is easy, no drama at all...the bike won't fall over no matter how much encouragement you give it.

this frame is now bare except for a few odds and ends that i'll salvage when i get a chance, and out the door it goes. no, i didn't throw it away, but the shop was getting crowded. with that frame gone, the new Scooter frame is set on the same stands, i need to start work on this build. this bike gets my tried and true EX650 swingarm swap, i had one on hand, and mounted it up. a temporary strut replaces the shock. everything is going to be painted in the future, nothing is final assembled or torqued to spec.



the EX650 swap is just a bolt up deal, not some kind of wanged together mess. you're either sourcing or transferring the long SS bushing from an earlier model ER6 swingarm and installing it in place of the two shorter SS bushing found on the EX650. short bushings out, long bushing in, perfect fit. the EX650 swingarm has a center mount, while the Versys swingarm is supported on the ends, the conventional method. the long SS bushing is visible when mounted, no that's not a pivot shaft, and everything is still protected with grease seals. this swingarm will be OEM length, no 25mm extension like the V649 swingarm which, incidentally, works great. still have questions, check some parts diagrams via the online parts houses, it's easy to see what needs to be done.

 

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JDRocks, PLEASE DO NOT STOP POSTING! I am on page 2 of this thread and saw that you were mentioning this may be a waste of your time. PLEASE UNDERSTAND IT IS NOT! You're posting the "dream". I have not been able to live it myself due to a multitude of reasons (can't get away from work, don't have the knowledge base, don't have the time, don't have the funds, etcetera). Primarily I either have the time, but no money (literally NO money) or I have the money, but no time. Seeing what you are doing and have done provides tremendous amounts of inspiration for me and others! Also, you are literally giving step-by-step instructions in a lot of this, so that is fantastic!

I do have a few questions though and I'm sure you've posted it before somewhere so I'm sorry if you have to repeat yourself. What do you do or what is your background? Are you a machinist? Engineer? Mechanic? Also, when you state that these bikes can be built cheap, that is after you factor in selling spare parts and using left over parts that you already have right? Last question (for now) how far away do you search for parts? Do you travel 300+ miles or just look local? Thanks and keep up the great work!
 

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Discussion Starter · #471 ·
JDRocks, PLEASE DO NOT STOP POSTING! I am on page 2 of this thread and saw that you were mentioning this may be a waste of your time. PLEASE UNDERSTAND IT IS NOT! You're posting the "dream". I have not been able to live it myself due to a multitude of reasons (can't get away from work, don't have the knowledge base, don't have the time, don't have the funds, etcetera). Primarily I either have the time, but no money (literally NO money) or I have the money, but no time. Seeing what you are doing and have done provides tremendous amounts of inspiration for me and others! Also, you are literally giving step-by-step instructions in a lot of this, so that is fantastic!

I do have a few questions though and I'm sure you've posted it before somewhere so I'm sorry if you have to repeat yourself. What do you do or what is your background? Are you a machinist? Engineer? Mechanic? Also, when you state that these bikes can be built cheap, that is after you factor in selling spare parts and using left over parts that you already have right? Last question (for now) how far away do you search for parts? Do you travel 300+ miles or just look local? Thanks and keep up the great work!
while money can be an enabler, the only real currency in life is time, more so as the years go by. money and time, the work/life balance in contemporary terms, a much discussed subject. all individual circumstances are different, but i ultimately decided to prioritize time over money. i'm supposed to be retired, but i still take negotiated contract jobs from those who can afford me. i have five unlimited construction licenses for my state.

ME background, but after school i went directly into construction management, and stayed there. i'm not a professional machinist, mechanic, welder, or any other trade related to bike work. all my years in design/build work made me a student of design, and i can hold my own there on a professional level. many aspects of custom bike work are all about design.

all these bikes were very inexpensive to put together utilizing parts bikes and other miscellaneous used parts. the white frame V649HP is free to me, while i might be out of pocket a little on the new Scooter, maybe 500 bucks. i used to travel a bit for the right something, but now i don't have to go far at all, there's so much out there if you shop. buying cheap parts can be an adventure itself, man, i've encountered some sketchy characters.

i have spent the time to document what i do, then share it on a couple forums. i've heard from riders in dozens of countries scattered over 6 continents, it's been fun...i'm not done quite yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #472 · (Edited)
got the swingarm, i need a rear wheel in there, the bearings have already been replaced with new. the SV650 3-spoke uses 525 chain, i'm using 520, the OEM ER6 size across the whole lineup. somethin' gotta give, and it's the rear sprocket, so i ordered a track bike 520 to fit the SV carrier in 47T, it's going to be a hot rod Scooter.



old man wheelie a-go-go...



the carrier bolts are fairly typical in that they have an indexing head flat that fits a corresponding flat in a recess on the back of the carrier. convenient, but make sure the head is seated before torquing the bolt. these bolts have a lock nut, but still come with medium factory locker, so they were reassembled with blue.



bobbins were swapped over from the Versys swingarm, not the best, i'll need to order some larger bobbins.



the end support style ER6 swingarms have a 240mm opening at the axle, so when swapping in a non ER6 wheel you can take a few measurements and get your wheel spacer numbers. to fine tune, i'll be indexing off the face of the sprocket to get chain alignment, but for now the wheel gets mounted. that 170/60 Mission looks pretty damn big on there, just what i was looking for in a Scooter tire.



the EX650 swingarm uses a factory hugger. if you purchase this swingarm, the objective is to purchase it loaded, complete with axle assembly, chain guide, hugger and so on. if you piecemeal it, you'll ending up spending way more on the swap...be the cheap MOFO, don't overpay. the ER6 bikes benefit from a hugger, otherwise the front of the swingarm, back of the motor, and top of the silencer end up looking like a gravel pit.

 

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Discussion Starter · #473 ·
the joys of dumpster diving, no, not me, the other guy...my new pro dumpster diver buddy. more to follow on the dumpster happenings, but when i was at the diver headquarters which might be described as linked dumpsters with a roof, i had to get a special exemption to take a photo, i guess some stuff in there had questionable provenance.

in the middle of the mess was an old Honda with a 23" front, a 5 decade throw back, i hadn't seen one since forever. i would have liked to get photos of the whole bike, it was partially disassembled, repairs by the unskilled, but was only allowed the wheel. there's some value in that wheel, the guy said he "found" the bike, but then revised the story to say he paid $25. who knows, but i was there for other diver treasure.

 

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Discussion Starter · #474 ·
the rear end of the Scooter hotrod is together on a trial basis, now i need to get going on the front. i'm still undecided on some parts that will be in that assembly, but i do know that i'll be using new roller bearings and an OEM stem so it's safe to install those new races.

if you happen to look at the yoohoo tube vids, you'll see all kinds of fancy dedicated tools to perform steering bearing R&R work, i ain't got any of them things. i'm in the make do, get it done camp, the same camp i've mentioned before.

here's how the little campers get the job done without boogering up the whole damn thing.

you can feel a slot or indent at the back of the headstock top and bottom at the races that you're going to remove. the slot is supposed to help you get started on removing the race, but it's tough to get started without a tool that has a bend in a thin edge tip. i use a small pry bar with a slight radius applied to the tip corners so the tool doesn't scratch the bearing pocket. the weight of the tool helps, and you can tap on the plastic handle without breaking it. the tip of the bar is wider than the slot, but i can access the entire race, so it doesn't matter. a few taps at the quarter points of the race, it's out of there, you don't need to beat on anything for removal. any type of tool with a similar configuration will work, use what you have.




tap, tap, tap...beat on the race, you risk damaging the pocket, and makes installing the new race more difficult.



nasty old OEM races out, there's no mystery about the reason ER6 bike riders complain about notchy steering, these things are pitiful.




new roller bearings, the races go into the headstock.




handy dandy shop built race installer, i've installed lots of races with this thing. something of similar design can be put together easily and inexpensively, the main thing is to have a tool that applies pressure to the race during installation. it's another tap, tap, tap deal along with the clamping pressure, the new races go in as easily as the old races came out.




the rounds on this tool are oversized compared to a dedicated driver tool where you can select a diameter that matches the OD of the race you're installing. see the dilemma, the races are installed flush, no good, the races aren't seated yet. the solution is to use your old race, thick side up, to seat the new race, it's now your perfect sized driver. you can't mistake when the new race is seated, when you tap, even the sound is different...that sucker is seated. the old race is removed with a single tap, it was in there maybe 3-4mm.




seated race.



the same procedures are used on the bottom race.



i might as well go ahead and say it, don't install the damn races upside down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #475 ·
i had a bare Versys frame sitting there, perfect opportunity to get a weight on the thing...



Kawasaki claimed a 35# weight reduction in the latest generation Ninja 650/EX650 bike largely through the introduction of a light weight tellis frame. if the old ER6 steel frame is in the 50# range, then the weight came off in other assemblies in addition to the frame.

from the builder's perspective, the early ER6 frames/subframes are superior. very rugged, not easily damaged, and by far the best motor mounts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #476 ·
there are some dumpster diver parts going into the Scooter, but i'm accumulating other used parts from non-diver sources too. alas, my dumpster buddy didn't have some parts in the inventory of his incredible pile of junk.

some old favorites, i've used these same brand used parts on multiple V649 bikes. i don't know why anyone would pay retail for bike parts or accessories without doing at least a little shopping. the discount for used parts in like new or very good condition is substantial against retail pricing, and sometimes a deal pops up without much of a search effort. often i think that deals on parts i've used previously just aren't out there any more, and in some cases it's probably due to availability of the parts themselves. in other words, where there used to be plenty, now they're scarce, and priced accordingly...or the parts are there, but in junk condition, and still priced sky high.

pazzo shortys, near new. i have used chineseum knockoffs too, but the branded levers seem to be a little better, i'll always try to find them first.




Fastway footrests, kinda the gold standard, gotta have them, and they've been on all bikes in the V649 series. i'll buy any used Fastways i can find for the right price that were used on non-euro bikes. sometimes it might take a little fiddling to fit 12mm pins, but it's worth the effort. almost no wear on this set.

 

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Discussion Starter · #477 ·
ongoing rummaging for Scooter parts, but while that's happening there's plenty of other things to do.

most of the ER6 ptwin bikes use the same or similar side stand mounts, so when you see one leaning way the heck over when parked, the sidestand mount is bent...not the mount welded to the frame, the culprit is the mounting yoke on the stand leg. some of these bikes eventually lean so far that it looks like they're about ready to fall over.

the small mounting plate on the bike is nominal 10mm, but it's actually 10-mm thick. nominal 3/8" A36 steel plate is also 10-mm thick, what a happy coincidence. take the guesswork out of the job when you reach for the BFH to beat the bent yoke back into shape. insert the scrap piece of 3/8" steel into slot in the yoke, then close the tab down tight to the scrap, can't go wrong. it's foolproof, you never have to worry about closing the tab so tight that it won't fit, or leaving it open enough so the bike still leans.

bent mount, 3/8" scrap.



when reinstalling, the spring goes on with the stand leg in a single operation, it's much easier than installing the leg, then wrasslin' with the spring. this sidestand comes back off for paint, but on final assembly, i zip tie the spring to the leg since the loss of that spring could be very inconvenient.


 

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Discussion Starter · #478 ·
the races for the new steering bearings are in the headstock, now the old OEM race has to come off the steering stem so the tapered roller bearing can be installed. gotta round up a few tools first...



starting under the grease seal with a thin chisel, or even a screwdriver, with a few taps the race should move up on the stem, it doesn't take much, so don't get booger fever and mess things up. the seal gets destroyed, but you're going to install a new one.



eventually the race is up far enough that it can be taken the rest of the way off the boss with a small punch.



clean everything up, pack the new bearing with WP grease, install the new grease seal, and start the new bearing on the stem. please install the seal and bearing right side up. using the old race flange side up, i use a small block of hardwood against the flange to work the bearing down the stem until seated.



the R and R on these steering bearings is easy work, once in, you'll be like everyone else who swaps in roller bearings and wonder why you didn't do it sooner.
 

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Discussion Starter · #479 ·
a note on wheel swaps...

a common swap for Gen 1 and 2 Versys 650 riders looking for a 19" wheel was and is the DL1000 front wheel. the swap is very easy, OEM forks and calipers are retained, and 300mm rotors are available for the DL wheel.

the wheel bearings come into play because the late model DL wheel uses a 25mm axle, while the earlier years used the 20mm axle, same as the Versys. it's easy to source new wheel bearings and seals to accommodate the 20mm axle, but you're still left with a 25mm ID hub spacer, now you need a 20mm ID spacer.

rather than having a shop crank out an expensive custom hub spacer, just sleeve the 25mm spacer down to 20mm. the sleeves are set flush with the ends of the spacer, and secured with a little cylinder sleeve adhesive, or other.

Hayabusa 25mm ID aluminum hub spacer with 20mm ID stainless sleeves. i was going to use the Busa wheel with a 20mm axle, but ended up with a different front wheel and a 25mm axle.

 

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Discussion Starter · #480 · (Edited)
everything is all forked up, it's a long story, but i'll kinda condense it some, make it a short story. here we go, "Once upon a time, blah, blah, blah, and then...."

i had a complete Versys front from the parts bike that i planned to use with the Scooter frame, also the nice Busa wheel with new 20mm ID bearings that i already knew would work since the hub is the same width as the DL1000 wheel which i used 12 years ago with Versys forks, some manufacturers don't change much.

that's when i happened to meet my new dumpster diver friend, damn if he hadn't just extracted a complete ZX6R from a dumpster on his regular dumpster safari route. hmmmm, now i needed the front from that bike, i already knew those forks would fit the Versys 650 clamps without any modification, but i really wanted the 3-spoke wheel. everyone has heard recent discussion of big pharma, much in the news, well, my new diver friend could accurately be referred to as little pharma, need i say more. i think there might have been some supply chain problems in the little pharma universe, and i walked away with most of the ZX6R front for popcorn money. i might have bought it for even less, but i got a little spooked. in total, the amount of junk this guy had fished out of dumpsters was beyond description, nice ZXer front for a few bucks though.

the ZX6R wheel and forks were straight, but the fender mount on one leg was broken, so i cut both off and smoothed up what was left, didn't care, i might not run a low fender. the mount could have been broken through a variety of circumstances, and my diver friend was noncommittal, didn't know nuthin' about nuthin'. also note the black spray paint on the forks, probably every stolen bike in the US of A gets a shot of black paint, it's one of the rules.



Versys 650 forks left, ZX6R forks right. the Scooter is a street bike, sportbike suspension travel is fine.



i already had the Versys forks on the Scooter frame, but those things bothered me. this series of custom bikes have never used the OEM suspensions they were born with, why start now? nice set of USD forks, but i swapped in the ZX6R forks just to see what they looked like on the bike. these fully adjustable forks follow the 50mm/52mm recipe for dimensions at the clamping surfaces, and also use the 41mm pipe diameter, same as the Versys. with all the same numbers, the forks swap right in. my ZX6R forks are from a model year using a 25mm axle, but there are others which use a 20mm axle, so know what you're looking at.

ZX6R with Versys upper clamp.



the ZX6R front wheel had a current production Michelin tire mounted, so the bike couldn't have been out of circulation for too long. i replaced it with a used TKC70 in 130/80, nice tire. i wanted to use this wheel because it has a slim spoke design compared to many others, and this is a better look for this style of bike.



Zxer forks mounted, wheel on, note clipped off fender mount.



here's where things stand...



(TO BE CONTINUED, the forked up mess ain't over)
 
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