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Discussion Starter #1
Anyone know of a stroker kit for the V650? I like the size and agility of the 650, but would enjoy a bit more grunt and a stroker motor to say 700cc or even 750cc would be a great upgrade. Don't think I'll go for the V1000 as I think it is a bit more than I want right now...
 

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No available stroker kit, but:

"I've been roadracing EX500s since 1999. Won a few natl twins titles, with a fast rider.. Johnny Staska. You guys can google up that stuff.
My 540cc EX engine makes about 70 dynojet HP. My 600cc EX motor makes 80. The 600 will break a crank in two, usually some time after 250-300 race miles. I've got a (stiffer) crank stroker 650cc EX500 in the works, which should make closer to 90HP... With a 32mm (in) valve head. Who ever said that these bikes don't respond to porting, should be discounted immediately. I've spent hundreds of hours porting and flow testing EXs. Stock heads flow just over 100CFM @ 10in H2O. A good 32mm head will flow 140. My stroker 500 mis on the back burner, since we built a Ninja 650 Racebike.
The Ninja 650 made 98HP with 12.6 to 1 compression. I just revised to a single ring piston and 13.8:1 compression. Haven't been back to the dyno yet.
BTW, I've got 3 complete racebikes for sale, including the championshp winner... With a fresh 600cc engine. Also have a couple of nice race engines for sale."

Alan Rodenborn
http://www.racingunlimited.com/
 

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i like where this conversation is going... just for a total layman, what would you do to increase compression?
You raise compression by reducing the volume in the cylinder head at TDC.

Done by reducing the thickness of the head gasket; milling the head; or installing a higher compression piston, but can ALSO be done in certain circumstances in SOME ENGINES by milling the TOP of the cylinder, OR by the amount of valve overlap the cams allow, AND by combinations of these.

With "squish" combustion areas it gets tricky. :goodluck:
 

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Some ER-6 owners have removed the cylinder base gasket to raise compression from 11.3:1 to about 12:1, so it would raise Versys compression from 10.6:1 to about 11.3:1.
 

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looks like the cheapest way to put horsepower in the Versys is to swap in a low mile and cheap ER6 motor. beside your labor, a no cost swap, done in a day easy.
Are you also using an ER6 ECU with your ER6 cop motor? Do you like the way it performs and does it still have good tractability for your custom dual-purpose application?
 

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You could pick up a 650 from a Ninja or ER6 head with cams and probably get close to 10 hp increase. I have thought about it.
 

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Are valves the same size? How about throttle bodies? If so just a 650R cam would do the trick. Assuming the ports are the same.

Of coarse to get full benifit it would be best to pull the head off, do some porting and a thinner head gasket. A power comander would take care of fuelling issues. No need to swap ECUs.

Of coarse all this effort is going to gain you some power up top, where you ride maybe 1% of the time. And you'll lose some power down low where you ride 100% of the time. Just something to think about.
 

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Valves and throttle bodies are the same. Versys head is different (more volume) for lower compression. Versys inlet and exhaust cam lobes have less duration and lift than the 650R's... Versys inlet camshaft is however identical to 650R's exhaust camshaft.

Ninja 650R/ER6:
Inlet- open 31° BTDC................Exhaust- open 50° BBDC
close 61° ABDC........................close 30° ATDC
duration 272°..........................duration 260°
cam height 36.6 +/- 0.057 mm... cam height 35.9 +/- 0.057 mm

Versys:
Inlet- open 25° BTDC................Exhaust- open 47° BBDC
close 54° ABDC........................close 25° ATDC
duration 260°..........................duration 252°
cam height 35.9 +/- 0.057 mm... cam height 35.4 +/- 0.057 mm

Ninja 650R/ER6 thus also has more valve overlap. Inlet valve timing is 0.5 degree more advanced, with exhaust timing retarted by 1 degree compared to Versys. ECU is also mapped differently.
Versys ignition timing ranges from 10° BTDC @ 1300 rpm, to 33° BTDC @ 5000+ rpm.
ER-6: From 10° BTDC @ 1300 rpm, to 35° BTDC @ 4800+ rpm.

Versys also has a crossover tube in exhaust header, before collector.

Cylinder base gasket is about 0.25 mm thick. Head gasket is a 3-layer steel, about 0.75 mm thick... You can remove the center layer of the head gasket, using copper head gasket sealer to seal the outer layers together. Such is BRP's prefered method, instead of removing base gasket. Lowering the cylinder also lowers any wear ridge at top of stroke.
 

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I love spec sheets. Good info.

Too bad the 650R only makes 62-65 hp stock. So without going crazy. Just R cams, thinner head gasket and slip on we're talknig about 70hp?

I'd like to know the specifics of what was done to get 98 hp. If your willing to share your secrets of speed.
 

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Spears Racing http://spearsenterprises.com/index.html

"As an industry leader in high performance and service of all Suzuki motorcycles, Spears Racing has now focused their efforts towards Sport Twin motorcycles. Countless hours of research and development has led to their products being specifically designed primarily for the Suzuki SV650, Kawasaki 650 Ninja and the Kawasaki 250 Ninja."

New Parts: Engine Kits for Kawasaki 650 Ninja.

Dyno Charts:

Kawasaki EX650 Ninja. SP01-650K pistons, SP17-650K camshafts degreed, Sunoco "The Standard" 110 fuel, Arrow full exhaust system, Power Commander and stock air filter.

http://spearsenterprises.com/tech_dynocharts.html
 

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Gary "BRP"
http://www.blueridgeperformance.net/

"We do not use high compression pistons. JE pistons weigh more than stock. Heavier parts move slower. We run stock pistons, with a milled head and cylinder. Depending on the track, we use different combos of Versys and 650R cams. (A cheap route, is to install a Versys intake cam in your 650R, and put the 650R intake cam in the exhaust.) We have billet cams ready to grind, but until we start getting some requests, they will stay in the unground form. Proper porting & compression nets the biggest gains.
Stock rods stretch a lot faster. Not a big problem, until you start getting over 75 hp. My engine builder is currently building some flat track engines. One is a 700cc, the other 750 using stock bore/rod length, with stroked crank and custom built pistons, with pin location moved. Those should be in the 90+ hp range."
 

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Kawasaki put together this race-prepped Ninja 650R to emphasize the sporting side of the latest version of the 649cc Parallel Twin. The race bodywork hints at some of the nice bits on the bike. Visible here are the Ohlins shock, Dunlop slicks and steel-braided brake lines. Woodcraft-CFM made the clip-ons, and the bike has a ZX-6R master cylinder. Chad Jensen of MC Pro Design did the paint.

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?lnk=rss&article=46878
 

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Discussion Starter #18
All some really nice ideas, but most seem to get more power on the top end, while I believe that adding some stroke to the motor may add some torque to the bottom end of the powerband, where I do most of my riding anyway. Guess no one decided to go this route. Well, thanks for the try, guys...:thanx:
 

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Invader,
Thanks for the link. I am impressed with your accomplishments and passion for the sport. Since you are so deeply involved, you may know the builder and article I am seeking.

He built dirt trackers and was quite successful with these engines. I remember that he had to back the power down in order for the bike to get traction. I understand that he has passed on and someone on our forum put up A post on his work. It may have led to an article by Cycle World ?

As I say, I just can't find the starting point now. I saw some local short track racing last weekend and it made me think of him. He was buddies with a friend of mine who was also a race bike builder/tuner.

Thanks
Richard
 

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Understood about playing with gasket(s) thicknesses. What no one will tell me is how much to mill off the Verys head to equal the volume of the ER6. Also what is the ideal combustion chamber volume.

Secondly, how much to mill the ER6 head to yield the max compression to run on E10 - 95 octane fuel (Average of RON+MON divided by 2) while using a Versys or ER6 ECU.
I already have a PCV with Autotune

I am in Thailand and no porting experts here so this seems the easiest route to increased performance without buying a new ER6 engine. Machine work is cheap here and once in for a new gasket set, it is not much more cost to mill the head and clean up the valves while it is off.
 
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