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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
S1 This is a reference to keep track of Edited threads 2020 , eventually I will remove this . Very time consuming but I am trying to keep only pertinent info in these threads.

More of a simple, very quick and extremely accurate test, to prove if any stator damage has occurred.

Basically, use your idle adjustment screw and get the RPM around 2000 RPM, this is warmed up RPM, do not try holding the throttle and measuring this.

So depending how fast you are, you may need to hook up your battery tender.

So what you need is some fine jewelers screwdrivers, straight pins or something that can be inserted in your socket of the stator plug, also a meter that reads volts AC, preferably with alligator clips on the probes . This is the 3 wires coming from the stator, to a plug close to your throttle position sensor. This connector has a latch locking it together, to release you need to squeeze down on the latch and wiggle / pull at the same time. When apart you are measuring the output from the stator under no load conditions, for your purpose, make a drawing and identify the 3 female crimps as #1,#2,#3, as long as you know what you are calling when referencing your measurements. So at 2000 RPM measure 1 to 2; 2 to 3; 3 to 1******that is your 3 readings, they should be around 24 to 28 VAC at 2000 RPM, the readings should be 0.5 VAC within each other, that is 1==28.0; 2==27.5; 3 ==28.3----

-if any readings are like the following ****1==24; 2==16; 3==22, you have shorted turns.

There is a third test that can also be done, measure 1,2,3 to ground, record these three readings, should be around 17 volts AC


Note:
One thing I have never mentioned, between my test and Kawasaki. Kawasaki requests 4000 or 5000 RPM, at that speed the rotor is producing maximum flux density, at 2000 RPM it is about 25% of maximum.



If you have any questions ask me. Very little about induction I don't know, that has been my specialty for over 40 years.
The difference is that, at 25% flux density, a small turn to turn short or turn to line short will have a large impact on the AC output. At 100% output, the imbalance between phases will be less noticeable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Stator Output 24 amp @ 14 VDC = 336 Watts


Note: December 2016**changed the values of VDC from 14.5 to 14.2 VDC This will cause the calculations done previously to be off, from what is posted***Typical shunt regulator puts out 14.5 to 15 VDC ( malfunctioning shunt regulators have caused ECU failure in the past, due to the fact they only start working / shunting @ or above 14.5 VDC, Series regulator is solid @ 14.2 VDC )


I am going to start by saying, I found some startling news as to the Osram 65 Watt bulb I am using, and may be going back to OEM for low beam.

To simplify and reduce text :
Base load=ignition;fuel pump; tail and license plate bulbs; (city lights are LED)= 5.89 ADC @ 14.2 VDC

Headlight = Osram super bright PX26D #64217 rated 65 Watt @ 12VDC, actual wattage @ 14.2 VDC=80 Watts BTW they are now obsolete 5.3 ADC @ 14.2 VDC

Base Load Total including headlight = 162 watts on my 2015


Add approximately 10 Watts if using incandescent city lights


***Approximate Watts Available above Base Load=174 Watts***


****Note , Subtract 10 Watts if you have OEM city incandescent bulbs instead of LED from Available Watts

All loads below are in addition to Base Load


High Beam Light is between 70 Watts for OEM and 80 Watts for Osram

Fan = 4.81 amp @ 14.2 VDC=70 watts

Heated Oxford Grips on Max=3.6 amp to 4 ADC ( each grip 28-30 watts maximum) @ 14.2 VDC = 56.8 Watts Maximum

Gerbing heated Jacket @ 77 Watts = 5.42 amp @14.2 VDC

Fluke meter displaying mVDC is being driven by a hall effect
clamp on amp probe that outputs 1 mV per amp DC, measured at the Compu-Fire regulator positive output wire.

Fluke meter showing VDC is connected to the battery terminals
Testing was done at 1500 RPM with base load and fan

Testing was done again @ 3000 RPM, with base loads and all other loads as described.


:nerd:

Note:
Since this bike has 6 KM on it, is strapped down on my lift and has no other cooling, beyond the rad fan, I felt it prudent to limit how fast and how long I ran this motor , picture #562 is what I would say is maximum output, you may gain 1 volt at 6000 RPM which would be 24 watts. My feeling is we are at saturation with the magnetic field at 3000 RPM. So what I will say is this stater has a maximum output of 348 Watts. Always keep in mind that your battery if less than 12.4 VDC becomes a continuous load. Something I will try and show once the stater is changed out on Smiley's bike.

:frown2:

#565 fan and base electrics
#549 showing regulator and amp clamp
#550 base electrics
#551 base electrics & Fan
#552 base electrics & Fan & low beam
# 553 base electrics, low & high beam
#554 base electrics, low & high beam & heated grips
#562 base electrics, low & high beam & heated grips & fan @ 3000 RPM

Below note updated 2018
Note; when viewing meters, pay attention to the one showing DC mv,the hall effect clamp on amp probe is 1 milli volt per amp,so in photo #554 it is 20.9 amps DC and #563 23.86 amp @ 13.46 VDC at 3000 RPM , increasing to 4000 RPM would bring the voltage up to 14.2 VDC, but we're nearing the output maximum of the stator.

Also in reference to incandescent verses LED, incandescent bulbs have a wattage rating at 12 VDC, a increase to 14.2 VDC will cause a increase in wattage , however the increase in wattage is not directly proportional to the voltage increase. LED bulbs are either fixed current or in the case of headlight bulbs have a driver and a rating of 9 to 32 VDC, the wattage will remain the same no matter what the voltage, however a increase in voltage is inversely proportional to the decrease in current.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Stator Testing '/ Permanent Magnet Induction Testing 101

Every once in a while it becomes obvious I haven't done a good enough job explaining myself, I will say I am a induction specialist ( closest thing I know of to a expert).

So the only accurate way to test a stater in place using permanent magnets is using a rotating magnetic field at a fixed RPM and measuring open circuit voltage phase to phase. FYI OEM is Delta connected, ungrounded, after market is generally Y connected ungrounded.The reason why you can't accurately measure or test is, the magnetic full field is present even at rest / standstill.

Only accurate way to test a stater on the bench is using a LCR meter, not a ohmmeter.

So why a LCR meter, take the number of turns per pole 44 times 6 = 264 turns,Stator Rewinding

divide that into the manual spec resistance of 0.18-0.27 ohms which = .000681 to .0010 ohms per turn, lets go out on a limb and say one pole is completely shorted 0.27 divided by 6=0.045 ohms, let me tell you your leads average 0.25 to 0.50 ohms, so even if you know how to zero your leads, we are talking 0.027 minus 0.045 =0.22 ohms .

Using my method at a fixed RPM will detect even 1 shorted turn, or 1/264 of the effective impedance of the winding, your choice , follow the manual or follow my test method.BTW I don't own anything that will measure 0.045 ohms in place on a inductive load.
Simple explanation : using the open circuit 2000 RPM test--all readings should be within 0.5 volts AC and within 22 to 30 VAC, other-words, you measured A-B =22VAC, B-C =22.5 VAC and C-A =21.5 VAC would indicate stater is good




Simple explanation : using the open circuit 2000 RPM test--all readings should be within 0.5 volts AC and within 22 to 30 VAC, other-words, you measured A-B =22VAC, B-C =22.5 VAC and C-A =21.5 VAC would indicate stater is good

Same test method---A-B = 16 VAC , B-C = 4 VAC, C-A = 2 VAC == Your stater is toast

Same test method --A-B==26 VAC, B-C = 16 VAC , C-A = 19 VAC ==Your stater is toast




BTW reference previously about a grounded stator, except for measuring VAC while running, any pole to ground will measure to ground on all three phases. A little trivia, the Versys stater has 3 phase delta wound, each phase has six poles= a total of 18 poles with 44 turns of 18 gauge magnet wire, for pictures click on stator rewinding and see Fuse_x detailed post c/w pictures.


Note:

I have added a few more tests discussed in this thread, due to the fact the OP couldn't post in technical forum :https://www.kawasakiversys.com/foru...king-awhile-finally-posting-looking-help.html


And another thread started where rather than read, just post another thread, posted in Burnt Stator and here:
https://www.kawasakiversys.com/foru...5977-stator|r-r|battery-trouble-shooting.html
On the up side, some good info from Google, however somewhat complicated and not 100% correct instating the regulator is at fault for failure, it should

This discusses the connector failing near the stator as the root cause for some stator failures, some good photos and explanation if you have nothing better to do
read the shunt design is at fault
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4HluJSSYjmtcmtBSXdQdHpwdWM/view
 

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I recieved this in a PM today ;

Hi onewizard, I鈥檝e put approx 500 miles on the bike since the issue I had and then the lights died and then the bike died. Just done the stator and alternator tests again and showing 55v at 4,000 rpm (manual suggests 42v) Defective R/R again???

Thanks
Vaiders



I removed some of the PM, as the question was about installing a CompuFire or Polaris regulator and what was involved. Since the bike is a 2011, I would recommend getting a Polaris 4012941 regulator and Triumph harness.
Very first thing is to test the stator using my test procedure , you couple a Polaris with a bad stator, expect regulator failure.In this particular case something happened to cause the ECU to fail and the headlights to blow, you don't want to repeat that. In your case I would suggest doing the 2000 RPM, if voltage is balanced between phases, adjust the idle screw to 3000 RPM get all the measurements and record them, make sure you measure each phase to ground, if the stator is good you will get the same volts ac , however it could be considerably off from the 2000 RPM, this volts to ground is a reference only, I am sure very few people know why on this forum, however your measurement with your meter could be different than if you used a different meter, because of 2 reasons, OEM is Delta Connected, so a reference to ground is common to all lines out, Y connected would be similar, however the volts to ground if the stator is good is what is called capacitive coupling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitive_coupling , if the stator is good, all 3 phases should be very close, within 2 VAC, if in doubt post your readings.
Hi,

Sorry for the delay, I鈥檝e just finished nights.
Tested the stator and got the following results:

3phases all balanced at 0.18 ohms and all IR >1000Ms

Engine warmed up and then tested at:

1350 RPM - ~25v (ph to ph), ~13.5v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

2000 RPM - ~34v (ph to ph), ~18.5v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

3000 RPM - ~48.5v (ph to ph), ~27.5v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

4000 RPM - ~68v (ph to ph), ~38v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

Oddly, when the stator lead was disconnected the headlight came back on....

Just tested the rectifier as per the manual and no light coming on during final test....

New R/R then!?!

Has anyone used bikebandit.com? They have a new Polaris 4012941 and triumph lead for $200, delivered to the UK for $300. Sound reasonable?

Cheers

Vaiders
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Copy To How To

Hi,

Sorry for the delay, I鈥檝e just finished nights.
Tested the stator and got the following results:

3phases all balanced at 0.18 ohms and all IR >1000Ms

Engine warmed up and then tested at:

1350 RPM - ~25v (ph to ph), ~13.5v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

2000 RPM - ~34v (ph to ph), ~18.5v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

3000 RPM - ~48.5v (ph to ph), ~27.5v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

4000 RPM - ~68v (ph to ph), ~38v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

Oddly, when the stator lead was disconnected the headlight came back on....

Just tested the rectifier as per the manual and no light coming on during final test....

New R/R then!?!

Has anyone used bikebandit.com? They have a new Polaris 4012941 and triumph lead for $200, delivered to the UK for $300. Sound reasonable?

Cheers

Vaiders
FYI you have just provided some base values at various RPM , open circuit , I should add the reference to ground is just that, all the phase voltages are common with other bikes I have tested , the 2000 RPM is within 1 volt, what my 2000 RPM may be over or under your 2000 RPM. Excellent post.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
S1

This thread is going to be the new standard for testing stators.

Here is the active thread where further questions and discussions can take place. From time to time updates get copied to this thread, intent is to keep all discussions in the technical discussion thread, as posting count restrictions limit this thread to long time members.

Here is the thread;
https://www.kawasakiversys.com/foru...773-stator-alternator-test-while-running.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
A little trivia here partially related to post #15 . Some of the tests I have developed are from my inverter experience and understanding of the principle of induction. In a certain case and due to copyright I can't be specific but a choke rated at 12 millihenry's had a resistance of 114 ohms using a ohm meter. This choke or series of chokes operated a very special piece of safety equipment, if malfunctioned someone definitely could be killed and in fact there were fatalities. So my very first experiment was involved with a system that wouldn't run and was costing $100,000 a day in lost production. I strongly suspected these chokes, my first experiment was using a 60watt incandescent trouble light in series with these chokes using 120 volts AC at 60 HZ, in series with my Fluke 189 on current AC, the light was overcurrent protection for my meter, yes the foundry maintenance foreman was shaking his head, well I am use to that, guess what , two chokes measure 9 milliamp and with the ohm meter 113 ohms , two more measured 90 milliamps and 114 ohms. Yes the 90 milliamp chokes had shorted turns. BTW those chokes are like I said 12 millihenry So in this example two in series should have been 24 millihenries but instead were around 2.4 millihenries or 1/10 of what they should have been.
Having live 120 VAC open wiring across the foundry floor especially when steel plates are involved well , I don't have a problem but some want barrier tape and flashing lights--

I then graduated to a LCR meter REED R5001 LCR Meter

So the stator is very similar to a reactor or a choke , testing using a ohmmeter is more or less useless , and for those interested , that Read LCR meter puts out various frequencies even on ohms, I think from 100 HZ to 100KHZ

Just in case someone thinks, hey lets buy a LCR meter -- sorry it only works with the rotor removed, the magnetic field of the rotor will affect the LCR meter
To go one step further, what my test does is produce a fixed rotating magnetic field across all of the poles at a fixed frequency, ( 2000 RPM ) which should produce identical results in this case Volts AC, provided the winding is identical and the laminations are undamaged.

reactor An electromagnetic device, the primary purpose of which is to introduce inductive reactance into a circuit. ... choke coil An inductor used in a special application to impede the current in a circuit over a specified frequency range while allowing relatively free passage of the current at lower frequencies.
 
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