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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
S10 This is a reference to keep track of Edited threads 2020 , eventually I will remove this . Very time consuming but I am trying to keep only pertinent info in these threads.

More of a simple, very quick and extremely accurate test, to prove if any stator damage has occurred.

Basically, use your idle adjustment screw and get the RPM around 2000 RPM, this is warmed up RPM, do not try holding the throttle and measuring this.

So depending how fast you are, you may need to hook up your battery tender.

So what you need is some fine jewelers screwdrivers, straight pins or something that can be inserted in your socket of the stator plug, also a meter that reads volts AC, preferably with alligator clips on the probes . This is the 3 wires coming from the stator, to a plug close to your throttle position sensor. This connector has a latch locking it together, to release you need to squeeze down on the latch and wiggle / pull at the same time. When apart you are measuring the output from the stator under no load conditions, for your purpose, make a drawing and identify the 3 female crimps as #1,#2,#3, as long as you know what you are calling when referencing your measurements. So at 2000 RPM measure 1 to 2; 2 to 3; 3 to 1******that is your 3 readings, they should be around 24 to 28 VAC at 2000 RPM, the readings should be 0.5 VAC within each other, that is 1==28.0; 2==27.5; 3 ==28.3----

-if any readings are like the following ****1==24; 2==16; 3==22, you have shorted turns.

There is a third test that can also be done, measure 1,2,3 to ground, record these three readings, should be around 17 volts AC


Note:
One thing I have never mentioned, between my test and Kawasaki. Kawasaki requests 4000 or 5000 RPM, at that speed the rotor is producing maximum flux density, at 2000 RPM it is about 25% of maximum.



If you have any questions ask me. Very little about induction I don't know, that has been my specialty for over 40 years.
The difference is that, at 25% flux density, a small turn to turn short or turn to line short will have a large impact on the AC output. At 100% output, the imbalance between phases will be less noticeable.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Stator Output 24 amp @ 14 VDC = 336 Watts


Note: December 2016**changed the values of VDC from 14.5 to 14.2 VDC This will cause the calculations done previously to be off, from what is posted***Typical shunt regulator puts out 14.5 to 15 VDC ( malfunctioning shunt regulators have caused ECU failure in the past, due to the fact they only start working / shunting @ or above 14.5 VDC, Series regulator is solid @ 14.2 VDC )


I am going to start by saying, I found some startling news as to the Osram 65 Watt bulb I am using, and may be going back to OEM for low beam.

To simplify and reduce text :
Base load=ignition;fuel pump; tail and license plate bulbs; (city lights are LED)= 5.89 ADC @ 14.2 VDC

Headlight = Osram super bright PX26D #64217 rated 65 Watt @ 12VDC, actual wattage @ 14.2 VDC=80 Watts BTW they are now obsolete 5.3 ADC @ 14.2 VDC

Base Load Total including headlight = 162 watts on my 2015


Add approximately 10 Watts if using incandescent city lights


***Approximate Watts Available above Base Load=174 Watts***


****Note , Subtract 10 Watts if you have OEM city incandescent bulbs instead of LED from Available Watts

All loads below are in addition to Base Load


High Beam Light is between 70 Watts for OEM and 80 Watts for Osram

Fan = 4.81 amp @ 14.2 VDC=70 watts

Heated Oxford Grips on Max=3.6 amp to 4 ADC ( each grip 28-30 watts maximum) @ 14.2 VDC = 56.8 Watts Maximum

Gerbing heated Jacket @ 77 Watts = 5.42 amp @14.2 VDC

Fluke meter displaying mVDC is being driven by a hall effect
clamp on amp probe that outputs 1 mV per amp DC, measured at the Compu-Fire regulator positive output wire.

Fluke meter showing VDC is connected to the battery terminals
Testing was done at 1500 RPM with base load and fan

Testing was done again @ 3000 RPM, with base loads and all other loads as described.


:nerd:

Note:
Since this bike has 6 KM on it, is strapped down on my lift and has no other cooling, beyond the rad fan, I felt it prudent to limit how fast and how long I ran this motor , picture #562 is what I would say is maximum output, you may gain 1 volt at 6000 RPM which would be 24 watts. My feeling is we are at saturation with the magnetic field at 3000 RPM. So what I will say is this stater has a maximum output of 348 Watts. Always keep in mind that your battery if less than 12.4 VDC becomes a continuous load. Something I will try and show once the stater is changed out on Smiley's bike.

:frown2:

#565 fan and base electrics
#549 showing regulator and amp clamp
#550 base electrics
#551 base electrics & Fan
#552 base electrics & Fan & low beam
# 553 base electrics, low & high beam
#554 base electrics, low & high beam & heated grips
#562 base electrics, low & high beam & heated grips & fan @ 3000 RPM

Below note updated 2018
Note; when viewing meters, pay attention to the one showing DC mv,the hall effect clamp on amp probe is 1 milli volt per amp,so in photo #554 it is 20.9 amps DC and #563 23.86 amp @ 13.46 VDC at 3000 RPM , increasing to 4000 RPM would bring the voltage up to 14.2 VDC, but we're nearing the output maximum of the stator.

Also in reference to incandescent verses LED, incandescent bulbs have a wattage rating at 12 VDC, a increase to 14.2 VDC will cause a increase in wattage , however the increase in wattage is not directly proportional to the voltage increase. LED bulbs are either fixed current or in the case of headlight bulbs have a driver and a rating of 9 to 32 VDC, the wattage will remain the same no matter what the voltage, however a increase in voltage is inversely proportional to the decrease in current.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Stator Testing '/ Permanent Magnet Induction Testing 101

Every once in a while it becomes obvious I haven't done a good enough job explaining myself, I will say I am a induction specialist ( closest thing I know of to a expert).

So the only accurate way to test a stater in place using permanent magnets is using a rotating magnetic field at a fixed RPM and measuring open circuit voltage phase to phase. FYI OEM is Delta connected, ungrounded, after market is generally Y connected ungrounded.The reason why you can't accurately measure or test is, the magnetic full field is present even at rest / standstill.

Only accurate way to test a stater on the bench is using a LCR meter, not a ohmmeter.

So why a LCR meter, take the number of turns per pole 44 times 6 = 264 turns,Stator Rewinding

divide that into the manual spec resistance of 0.18-0.27 ohms which = .000681 to .0010 ohms per turn, lets go out on a limb and say one pole is completely shorted 0.27 divided by 6=0.045 ohms, let me tell you your leads average 0.25 to 0.50 ohms, so even if you know how to zero your leads, we are talking 0.027 minus 0.045 =0.22 ohms .

Using my method at a fixed RPM will detect even 1 shorted turn, or 1/264 of the effective impedance of the winding, your choice , follow the manual or follow my test method.BTW I don't own anything that will measure 0.045 ohms in place on a inductive load.
Simple explanation : using the open circuit 2000 RPM test--all readings should be within 0.5 volts AC and within 22 to 30 VAC, other-words, you measured A-B =22VAC, B-C =22.5 VAC and C-A =21.5 VAC would indicate stater is good




Simple explanation : using the open circuit 2000 RPM test--all readings should be within 0.5 volts AC and within 22 to 30 VAC, other-words, you measured A-B =22VAC, B-C =22.5 VAC and C-A =21.5 VAC would indicate stater is good

Same test method---A-B = 16 VAC , B-C = 4 VAC, C-A = 2 VAC == Your stater is toast

Same test method --A-B==26 VAC, B-C = 16 VAC , C-A = 19 VAC ==Your stater is toast




BTW reference previously about a grounded stator, except for measuring VAC while running, any pole to ground will measure to ground on all three phases. A little trivia, the Versys stater has 3 phase delta wound, each phase has six poles= a total of 18 poles with 44 turns of 18 gauge magnet wire, for pictures click on stator rewinding and see Fuse_x detailed post c/w pictures.


Note:

I have added a few more tests discussed in this thread, due to the fact the OP couldn't post in technical forum :https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/5-member-introductions/114761-lurking-awhile-finally-posting-looking-help.html


And another thread started where rather than read, just post another thread, posted in Burnt Stator and here:
https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/9-technical-discussion/115977-stator|r-r|battery-trouble-shooting.html
On the up side, some good info from Google, however somewhat complicated and not 100% correct instating the regulator is at fault for failure, it should

This discusses the connector failing near the stator as the root cause for some stator failures, some good photos and explanation if you have nothing better to do
read the shunt design is at fault
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4HluJSSYjmtcmtBSXdQdHpwdWM/view
 

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I recieved this in a PM today ;

Hi onewizard, I’ve put approx 500 miles on the bike since the issue I had and then the lights died and then the bike died. Just done the stator and alternator tests again and showing 55v at 4,000 rpm (manual suggests 42v) Defective R/R again???

Thanks
Vaiders



I removed some of the PM, as the question was about installing a CompuFire or Polaris regulator and what was involved. Since the bike is a 2011, I would recommend getting a Polaris 4012941 regulator and Triumph harness.
Very first thing is to test the stator using my test procedure , you couple a Polaris with a bad stator, expect regulator failure.In this particular case something happened to cause the ECU to fail and the headlights to blow, you don't want to repeat that. In your case I would suggest doing the 2000 RPM, if voltage is balanced between phases, adjust the idle screw to 3000 RPM get all the measurements and record them, make sure you measure each phase to ground, if the stator is good you will get the same volts ac , however it could be considerably off from the 2000 RPM, this volts to ground is a reference only, I am sure very few people know why on this forum, however your measurement with your meter could be different than if you used a different meter, because of 2 reasons, OEM is Delta Connected, so a reference to ground is common to all lines out, Y connected would be similar, however the volts to ground if the stator is good is what is called capacitive coupling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitive_coupling , if the stator is good, all 3 phases should be very close, within 2 VAC, if in doubt post your readings.
Hi,

Sorry for the delay, I’ve just finished nights.
Tested the stator and got the following results:

3phases all balanced at 0.18 ohms and all IR >1000Ms

Engine warmed up and then tested at:

1350 RPM - ~25v (ph to ph), ~13.5v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

2000 RPM - ~34v (ph to ph), ~18.5v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

3000 RPM - ~48.5v (ph to ph), ~27.5v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

4000 RPM - ~68v (ph to ph), ~38v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

Oddly, when the stator lead was disconnected the headlight came back on....

Just tested the rectifier as per the manual and no light coming on during final test....

New R/R then!?!

Has anyone used bikebandit.com? They have a new Polaris 4012941 and triumph lead for $200, delivered to the UK for $300. Sound reasonable?

Cheers

Vaiders
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Copy To How To

Hi,

Sorry for the delay, I’ve just finished nights.
Tested the stator and got the following results:

3phases all balanced at 0.18 ohms and all IR >1000Ms

Engine warmed up and then tested at:

1350 RPM - ~25v (ph to ph), ~13.5v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

2000 RPM - ~34v (ph to ph), ~18.5v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

3000 RPM - ~48.5v (ph to ph), ~27.5v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

4000 RPM - ~68v (ph to ph), ~38v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

Oddly, when the stator lead was disconnected the headlight came back on....

Just tested the rectifier as per the manual and no light coming on during final test....

New R/R then!?!

Has anyone used bikebandit.com? They have a new Polaris 4012941 and triumph lead for $200, delivered to the UK for $300. Sound reasonable?

Cheers

Vaiders
FYI you have just provided some base values at various RPM , open circuit , I should add the reference to ground is just that, all the phase voltages are common with other bikes I have tested , the 2000 RPM is within 1 volt, what my 2000 RPM may be over or under your 2000 RPM. Excellent post.
 

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@onewizard thank you for sharing all this knowledge, but is there any "stator" guide for a random v650 owner who is not tech savvy which briefly describes in simple steps what to do?

Like:

To keep your stator happy:
  • keep oil level at top mark
  • install series regulator (where to buy, how to install?)
  • ...
To monitor stator/battery health
- install a voltage meter into a cigarette lighter socket. Voltage should be 11v when on battery and 14v when engine is idling, if it's 100500v - do this and that

if stator died - do this and that

Thanks in advance!
 

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This is or was my test account as a regular member--AKA Onewizard



 

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Discussion Starter #10
See neat little voltmeter, that is you very best cheap solution Green is good , as in go, it is extremely accurate, as long as one of the three green led's are on, it is charging, day or night a quick glance like coming to a traffic light, green light = crank it:ROFLMAO:
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I had a conversation today about testing the stator, many times questions are asked and my explanation to me is simple, however 99% of the people on this forum that read it, don't understand a word I said. Part of that conversation today, was in reference to a email where the Versys 650 ABS 2015 owner followed the Service manual using 4000 RPM.
A quick explanation hopefully simplified, our charging system has what is called a permanent magnet rotor, (
100% of cars use a electrical energized magnetic rotor. That is, the output / magnetic field strength, is controlled by how much charge is needed and is directly proportional to the magnetic field produced by the wound rotor, and the dc voltage and current inputted to the wound rotor plus the speed of the rotor produces the output required to maintain the electrical system, we are now producing electrical system that output over 300 amp or 4 kilowatt ).
So my testing has resulted in knowing that at or above 4000 RPM , there is no gain in output of our charging system( that is at 4000 we get 330 watts, at 10,000 RPM we still get 330 watts, if we could run it at 20,000 RPM we would still get a maximum of 330 watts ). Also at about 2000 RPM we are about at 65% output.
So why not 3000 or 4000 RPM? Because let us think about two things, first we are open circuit in my test, we know at 2000 RPM the stator will output 215 watts or 65% roughly.
So today I mentioned that shorted turns is like a load withing the winding, say like a 10 watt light bulb. If we measure the volts AC across each phase at 2000 RPM , that 10 watt say on A to B phase will cause a lower output on A to B , if we increase to 4000 RPM the volts AC across A to B , B to C and C to A will rise and level out ( the voltage difference will be less between the phases). There is a second more serious thing to consider, if indeed you have shorted turns, at 4000 RPM you have a full 330 watts available across those shorted turns, we are talking rapid winding failure occurring within minutes, as
in burnt stator.

Questions are welcome!
 

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Checked my stator output today as I have a trip coming up in a few weeks. One question: should the VAC readings fluctuate at all? For example, the values of all three test combinations were fluctuating between 26.1 and 26.5. So the lowest and the highest reading are within range, but this fluctuation made me wonder. Maybe I just did a terrible job of keeping the leads firmly against the pins...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
If you used the idle adjustment at 2000 RPM, using a digital meter, keep in mind the RPM isn't precise, fuel/ air mixture, firing angle heat of engine. The meter grabs a value calculates then displays. The voltage of 26 is absolutely perfect, my guess you were closer to 1900 RPM. I say within 1 VAC, usually with even a couple shorted turns you will get a difference of more than 5 VAC, that is 26.5;21.5;23.5.
 

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Ok great and thanks for the info:) That's what I was hoping; yes the RPM needle was hovering around 2000 but would ever so slightly deviate to the lower end of the line. Bike was warmed from a nice ride. I definitely did NOT see anything outside of the 26 ranges. Better to check now than have it sneak up on me at a worse time.
 
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