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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looking for some guidance from the masses.

2017 Versys 650 LT bought used. Previous owner had two small LED fog lights installed on the bike. I also added two Darla's from Clearwater to give some Amber conspicuous riding. When I added these lights, I wired in a PDM60 with a 7 second delay on start up, simply to prevent a high draw at startup. The Darla's come on after the engine has fully run for about 7 seconds. With this set-up, the bike started flawlessly for about a year. But then, starting a few months ago, I would turn on the ignition like usual, wait for fuel pump completion and calibration on the dash. Push the starter button and dead quiet. I would release, push again and 90% of the time it would start up. Sometimes it sounded weak with the start though. I watched this for about two weeks and finally decided that it needed a new battery. New battery didn't improve the function and it simply continued.
One time after this delayed start the CEL came on. Took it to a dealer who said the code showed decreased draw at start up. Makes sense I guess...but the battery was fully charged. He then said that I have too many lights on the bike and this is causing the problem. I told him about the PDM60 and he said it didn't matter, that still causes a large draw and I needed to remove the lights.

So my questions are this. Would a PDM60 which is designed to prevent this...actually be the cause on my bike? Can there be a problem with the actual starter? Dealer was convinced it was the lights.

It has felt like it's a weak battery for once I've ridden the bike some, it starts back up on the first try. Just does this delay during the first start of day. All that said, I have had a fully charged battery in place for a few weeks now. I keep it on a good trickle charger as well.

Any insight or thoughts ? TIA

Neil
 

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Don't know much about your time delay or how it is wired but since it worked fine for a year it sounds more like a bad connection or something similar. Bad connection and/or bad ground is where I would start looking. Time for a multi-meter.
 

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Look at your starter relay. Mine did about the same thing before it failed completely. It was usually in the first start of the day, then it would work fine. I took the time to put a meter on it for the first start and had power to the relay and heard the click but no power going out to the starter.
 

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First, hopefully, you never have a serious electrical problem and decide to go back to your dealer. I am a firm believer of tackling known problems first before digging out the meter. Take your engine ground off and clean both the casting and the ring stakon with a scotch brite pad. Then use some good dielectric grease sparingly. I have a second suggestion, take some diagonal pliers and cut a small V notch in the front of the ring stakon, this is to convert it to something close to a FORK stakon. The reason is the fastener is mounted on a angle, the wire is very short and the tendency is to cross thread this bolt when re-installing--you don't want that to happen, this is a difficult area to get your hand into. If you have a set of obstruction wrenches / S wrenches, they will come in handy if you ever want to do the valve shim check yourself. So first after cleaning, thread the bolt in by hand, after 2 full turns you can assume the bolt is going in properly, you can then slide the connection back in under the bolt and continue tightening.

Next try the starter again, if there is a difference we are done, if not follow below;

Next we need to determine if you have a start relay problem or a start solenoid problem, and I wouldn't worry about the lights, unless they aren't LED, then you need to tell me what wattage they are.After keying on, listen closely if you hear a click under the gas tank when pushing the start button. To save time, if you have a meter, connect one side to a good ground, the other side, go to the start solenoid, one side is live all the time ( two allen head cap screws), verify you have battery voltage here, the other allen head goes directly to the starter, connect your meter here, if possible set that on the seat visible when pushing the start button. Typical voltage from the battery is 12.7 to 12.9 VDC, when cranking , normal voltage is 11VDC as it draws around 50 amp. Could you tell me what battery you installed??

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One wizard is correct I meant the starter solenoid. I forgot about the starter circuit relay in the relay box. The start solenoid may be called the start relay in some manuals Including the gen 2 service manual. The way he suggested testing it is how I tested mine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
First, hopefully, you never have a serious electrical problem and decide to go back to your dealer. I am a firm believer of tackling known problems first before digging out the meter. Take your engine ground off and clean both the casting and the ring stakon with a scotch brite pad. Then use some good dielectric grease sparingly. I have a second suggestion, take some diagonal pliers and cut a small V notch in the front of the ring stakon, this is to convert it to something close to a FORK stakon. The reason is the fastener is mounted on a angle, the wire is very short and the tendency is to cross thread this bolt when re-installing--you don't want that to happen, this is a difficult area to get your hand into. If you have a set of obstruction wrenches / S wrenches, they will come in handy if you ever want to do the valve shim check yourself. So first after cleaning, thread the bolt in by hand, after 2 full turns you can assume the bolt is going in properly, you can then slide the connection back in under the bolt and continue tightening.

Next try the starter again, if there is a difference we are done, if not follow below;

Next we need to determine if you have a start relay problem or a start solenoid problem, and I wouldn't worry about the lights, unless they aren't LED, then you need to tell me what wattage they are.After keying on, listen closely if you hear a click under the gas tank when pushing the start button. To save time, if you have a meter, connect one side to a good ground, the other side, go to the start solenoid, one side is live all the time ( two allen head cap screws), verify you have battery voltage here, the other allen head goes directly to the starter, connect your meter here, if possible set that on the seat visible when pushing the start button. Typical voltage from the battery is 12.7 to 12.9 VDC, when cranking , normal voltage is 11VDC as it draws around 50 amp. Could you tell me what battery you installed??

View attachment 185078
Thank guys for your insight. I do have a meter and will try to go through what you guys recommend. I'm not totally confident in trouble shooting but it's more from not knowing every part on the bike. I will have to do some research on where things are.

Do you guys recommend a service manual for the 2017 Versys 650?
 

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Thank guys for your insight. I do have a meter and will try to go through what you guys recommend. I'm not totally confident in trouble shooting but it's more from not knowing every part on the bike. I will have to do some research on where things are.

Do you guys recommend a service manual for the 2017 Versys 650?
Yes and a paper copy is handy !
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
Hey guys. Hopefully you can help me with this. I bought a replacement starter relay for my 2017 Versys 650LT

Disconnected battery. Located the starter relay and carefully removed switch plug, rubber boot over the terminals, disconnected the two terminals. Pulled out the relay and replaced it with the new one. Obviously making sure everything lined up, it was a pure plug out and plug in with new. Tightened everything up and placed the rubber covering perfectly.

Started the bike up and it worked great. Turned off and back on about 5 times to make sure all was good. Testosterone flowing like jet fuel throughout my DIY body. Left it running while I replaced the plastic and put seat back on. Went to shut off the bike with the key and all of a sudden the starter just kept repeating. It wouldn't start....just trying to.

Removed the key....still firing....kill switch off.....still firing.

Quickly removed the seat....disconnected the battery....all quiet.

Bad relay purchased? In a stuck position? I'm not well versed in electrical but I'm good a locating and replacing parts.

Thought this was a slam dunk. :mad:

Any thoughts?
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
In doing more research on the relay, I may have bought the wrong one. Everything was the same except for the rubber housing it came with. I traded it out for the OEM rubber housing but apparently that doesn't make it the correct one. :oops:

I ordered a used one from EBAY which came off the 2017. It has the correct rubber housing as far as I can tell. I obviously fried the relay for even when the switch plug is removed....and I connect the battery back up....the starter starts up. So its not a faulty switch.

I think I figured it out. Now I just wait for a delivery.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
OK, need to put this horse down and complete this dilemma, for I think this can happen pretty easy and maybe has to some of you already.

This delay in the starting was driving me crazy. Brand new starter solenoid didn't fix. Checked all the grounds and everything seemed good.

Finally took apart the starter button housing. Careful to not mess up the throttle cable. I sprayed some WD40 directly onto the starter switch contacts from within. Put it all back together thinking it was my last attempt at this.

30 starts since and everything perfect. Couldn't go three in a row before without a non-response when depressing the starter button.

Just in case someone else has this problem. Check this one off.
 

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The simple fix was the most obvious one for you. We tend to overthink problems and ignore the basics. Glad you solved your dilemma, Jazzy.

The switches and the mode/reset can always use some occasional cleaning, lubing etc. This reminds me to quit putting off cleaning my mode/reset buttons- they require multiple stabs to work.
 

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...Speaking of this ... @fasteddiecopeman may be rubbing off on me -- still not sure if it's a good or a bad thing 😂....
Of course it's a VG thing! Just finished lubing the throttle-cables on the GREEN HORNET TOO w/... WAIT FOR IT...

...WD40.

:cool:
 
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