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Here in the peoples republic of New Jersey, we already have background checks. It is almost impossible to get a conceal/carry permit here either. Each handgun requires it's own permit and once you have the permit you have 90 days to make your purchase. Rifles only take one permit for as many as you can afford. So with all those laws, we still have (2) of the murder capitals in the country (Camden & Newark, Trenton ain't too cool either..) I think it's the one punishment fits all crimes justice we have that needs to change. Maybe if we bring back capital punishment dispensed in 30 days or less we might get somewhere. Going to jail is too much like a family reunion for a lot of these punks that mis-use guns...
 

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Here in the peoples republic of New Jersey, we already have background checks. It is almost impossible to get a conceal/carry permit here either. Each handgun requires it's own permit and once you have the permit you have 90 days to make your purchase. Rifles only take one permit for as many as you can afford. So with all those laws, we still have (2) of the murder capitals in the country (Camden & Newark, Trenton ain't too cool either..) I think it's the one punishment fits all crimes justice we have that needs to change. Maybe if we bring back capital punishment dispensed in 30 days or less we might get somewhere. Going to jail is too much like a family reunion for a lot of these punks that mis-use guns...
Living in one of the corruption capitals of the USA (Illinois), I share your frustration. Where did the Commander In Chief get his public office start?:censored:
 

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At the risk of getting political on a MC forum... I wholeheartedly agree! Big win for the second amendment crowd... Unfortunately I live In the epicenter of the gun grabbers- NY. The SAFE act has pretty much banned ANY gun with a mag that holds more than 7 rounds (handguns included) and anything with an "evil" feature.

They have a couple lawsuits fighting it and hopefully they get somewhere. They claim not to be after guns but they already arrested 2 people for acts that would have been legal back in the beginning of January...

It's madness out there!




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Nothing says freedom like easily allowing the seriously mentally ill and those with criminal records to easily arm themselves. Back ground checks certainly won't eliminate shootings, mass shootings or even suicides but if you compare US statistics for these kind of things to countries that do have background checks, pretty much any developed, democratic country (UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, Finland, Belgium, France, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, etc.), they all have significantly lower, per capita, rates for shootings, mass shootings, and even suicides ... and people still own and use guns in these countries just as they do in the US.
 

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Hey Seeya, why don't you post the pics of the 411 that died from guns in Detroit last year or the 432 in Chicago. Yes it is very sad about the kids in Newtown, but enough already...
 

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I don't understand this.

If expanding background checks to things like internet sales is against the 2nd Amendment, then how are there existing compulsory back ground checks? Either background checks are against the 2nd or they are not, so which one is it?

Are US gun rights extended to criminals* and people with mental health* issues or not? If they are they why? Why let criminals* and people with mental health* problems have guns?

*in this case by criminals I mean those who commit crimes of violence and by mental health problems means problems such as paranoia and anger management which make people more risky to others, not all mental health issues.

There have been three gun massacres in the UK and all three where by people who passed the system of background checks. So we know even a strict background check is not a guarantee. But with a gun death rate significantly lower than the USA, the UK (and everywhere else in the First World) manages guns without all the killings.
 

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Cool vid. Thanks.

Too bad none of those teachers/administrators were armed. Nut job wouldn't have made it past the office if they were.

When will the campaign to ban pressure cookers begin?
I have heard that argument before, but there was armed security at Collumbine High School and at Virginia Tech, just not in the right place at the right time till it was too late for many. So even if some teachers at Sandy Hook had been armed, that would not have necessarily stopped the shooting.

I have been to the USA and managed to be in the wrong place at the wrong time on a number of occasions (at work in Boston twice and once in New York queuing for the cinema) and have seen shootings or been caught up in them. I managed to not get shot. I also stayed with relatives where there had been home invasions and so they kept guns under their bed and I was advised not to walk to the local shops as I would be challenged as a possible suspect. It has left a lasting impression on me.
 

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My girlfriend oldest son is into guns. He has quite a collection but he has had lots of training and has a CCW but he never carries. He and a few buddies go to the gun range once in awhile. We were watching a program where in Kentucky you can own fully auto guns there. He got excited when i told him that me and my brother own 28 acres there. I think he's ready to move.
 

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Nothing says freedom like easily allowing the seriously mentally ill and those with criminal records to easily arm themselves. Back ground checks certainly won't eliminate shootings, mass shootings or even suicides but if you compare US statistics for these kind of things to countries that do have background checks, pretty much any developed, democratic country (UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Germany, Finland, Belgium, France, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, etc.), they all have significantly lower, per capita, rates for shootings, mass shootings, and even suicides ... and people still own and use guns in these countries just as they do in the US.
Find me a gun in London ;) you forgot to mention the most important stat- Switzerland has the lowest gun crime rate In the world and your legally allowed to carry military grade AUTOMATIC rifles, in the open, and it's normal... Whereas Detroit which had a full ban on all guns, has the highest gun crime rate per capita in the US. The point is, these silly laws such as "only 7 or less round magazines" do nothing to stop gun crime it just effectively disarms the law abiders. This country was founded on the concept that we the people have a right to own firearms and that this right *shall not be infringed*.

Crap like the SAFE act basically takes a piss on the constitution, and it's sad that in this day and age people seem to think that's ok. It isn't a Left Vs Right argument either.

Now onto UBC's- they sound like a great idea, but it's the same deal, most guns used in gun crimes are stolen or bought on the black market, not at gander mountain. Oh another fun fact the MAJORITY of crimes are done with HAND GUNS which you have to go thru a UBC to get anyways, whereas a very small fraction are done using "assault weapons"*

In ny a 12 gauge shotgun with a pistol grip or a thumb hole is an assault weapon but the same model shotgun (same bullet same shell same barrel) without said features are not considered assault weapons- it's insanity.

TL;DR: said proposed laws do nothing to stop gun crime

Anyways back to the scheduled programming :) think I've said all I plan to in this thread because we all see its going to end up in a flaming contest, but I felt i should weigh in on it.

*made up term


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Case and point- it's not the gun it's the person behind the gun ;) thanks for that


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I'm all for a safer America, but I just think there is a better way to go about it than working on gun bans.

From what I have read, the top three ways that criminals get guns are:
1. Straw purchases which are already illegal
2. From "dirty" FFL dealers, again already illegal
3. From an unlicensed dealer, again already illegal

Therefore I don't foresee any of the recently proposed legislation having the affect they do. As far as requiring background checks on online sales ... from my understanding the largest online gun site is GunBroker which requires guns be shipped to and picked up from and FFL in which case a background check would be performed under current legislation.

This country was founded on the notion of "where there is a WILL there is a WAY"
From that, eliminate one way for a criminal to get a gun and they will find another. Eliminate guns and they will just fine another way.

We need to address why people have the WILL to hurt others. We need to work together to teach our children the value of human life, to show compassion for one another, to talk about our differences and accept one another. We need get over the "feel good" society we have and let our children experience failure and learn to deal with it. We need to enforce the laws we have and remove criminals from society.

We need an honest media to tell the facts and let people form their own opinions. We need to stand up for what is right and not be afraid to call a spade a spade. We need to stop looking at how we are all different and see how we are all the same.

I certainly don't know the answers to accomplishing all that but I do feel there are better ways of spending money than going after gun control that statistically will have very little affect on keeping guns out of the hands of criminals.

Lets increase mental health awareness and funding to help people. Lets start prosecuting criminals and keeping them locked up for their full sentence. Lets start being parents and regulating what we let your children watch on TV and video games.

I feel terrible for the victims of all violence, not just gun violence, but guns don't kill people just like vehicles, knives, or bats don't kill people. Guns are just an easy target to direct emotions at. They are a tangible thing to hate.

Lets put emotion aside and look at the facts!

There is much to be done, and so little ambition in the right direction.

I also feel American need to have the right to defend themselves. No matter how hard we try, we will never predict or stop all of those who wish to do harm. We need to take some action for our own self preservation, or at least have the option to if we so choose.

Mitch
 

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I'm all for a safer America, but I just think there is a better way to go about it than working on gun bans.

From what I have read, the top three ways that criminals get guns are:
1. Straw purchases which are already illegal
2. From "dirty" FFL dealers, again already illegal
3. From an unlicensed dealer, again already illegal

Therefore I don't foresee any of the recently proposed legislation having the affect they do. As far as requiring background checks on online sales ... from my understanding the largest online gun site is GunBroker which requires guns be shipped to and picked up from and FFL in which case a background check would be performed under current legislation.

This country was founded on the notion of "where there is a WILL there is a WAY"
From that, eliminate one way for a criminal to get a gun and they will find another. Eliminate guns and they will just fine another way.

We need to address why people have the WILL to hurt others. We need to work together to teach our children the value of human life, to show compassion for one another, to talk about our differences and accept one another. We need get over the "feel good" society we have and let our children experience failure and learn to deal with it. We need to enforce the laws we have and remove criminals from society.

We need an honest media to tell the facts and let people form their own opinions. We need to stand up for what is right and not be afraid to call a spade a spade. We need to stop looking at how we are all different and see how we are all the same.

I certainly don't know the answers to accomplishing all that but I do feel there are better ways of spending money than going after gun control that statistically will have very little affect on keeping guns out of the hands of criminals.

Lets increase mental health awareness and funding to help people. Lets start prosecuting criminals and keeping them locked up for their full sentence. Lets start being parents and regulating what we let your children watch on TV and video games.

I feel terrible for the victims of all violence, not just gun violence, but guns don't kill people just like vehicles, knives, or bats don't kill people. Guns are just an easy target to direct emotions at. They are a tangible thing to hate.

Lets put emotion aside and look at the facts!

There is much to be done, and so little ambition in the right direction.

I also feel American need to have the right to defend themselves. No matter how hard we try, we will never predict or stop all of those who wish to do harm. We need to take some action for our own self preservation, or at least have the option to if we so choose.

Mitch
+1

Exactly my thoughts!
The laws we already have in place are supposed to prevent this stuff. I firmly believe we need to start enforcing it. Another thing to consider... The guy who committed the atrocities in West Webster ny (25 mins from my house) got let out of a prison sentence (25-life I think but don't quote me on that) for murder, based on. "Good behavior". Then he went, killed a woman he had a vendetta against, lit the house on fire, and killed firemen that showed up to respond. I think we all can agree that isn't right, right?


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