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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
S#1 Stator Testing & Editing/ Loading/ Polaris 4012941&4016868 Discussion Thread

April 2020 I will be editing anything to do with series regulators and Polaris installs .If someone has a question post in this thread or related threads of Technical.



S#1 This post is copied from;https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/74-how-forum/105962-stater-output-stator-testing-device-load-ratings-2015-a.html

Stator testing
Stator Testing / Loading/ Polaris 4012941&4016868 Discussion Thread

This post is copied from;https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...gs-2015-a.html

More of a simple, very quick and extremely accurate test, to prove if any stator damage has occurred.

FYI for those not familiar with A-B;B-C;C-A , you randomly call each pin a number or letter, I use a clockwise reference, start at a distinct pin and call it A or #1, if using numbers then it is 1-2;2-3;3-1

#1 So what you need is some fine jewelers screwdrivers, straight pins or something that can be inserted in your socket of the stator plug, also a meter that reads volts AC, preferably with alligator clips on the probes . This is the 3 wires coming from the stator, to a plug close to your throttle position sensor. This connector has a latch locking it together, to release you need to squeeze down on the latch and wiggle / pull at the same time.
#2 Basically, use your idle adjustment screw and get the RPM around 2000 RPM, this is warmed up RPM, do not try holding the throttle and measuring this.So depending how fast you are, you may need to hook up your battery tender. We are depending on a fixed RPM ( 2000 aprox.)that should give identical results on all three phases.

#3 When apart you are measuring the output from the stator under no load conditions, for your purpose, make a drawing and identify the 3 female crimps as #1,#2,#3, as long as you know what you are calling when referencing your measurements. So at 2000 RPM measure 1 to 2; 2 to 3; 3 to 1******that is your 3 readings, they should be around 24 to 28 VAC at 2000 RPM, the readings should be 0.5 VAC within each other, that is 1==28.0; 2==27.5; 3 ==28.3----

-if any readings are like the following ****1==24; 2==16; 3==22, you have shorted turns.

There is a third test that can also be done, measure 1,2,3 to ground, record these three readings, should be around 17 volts AC

If you have any questions ask me. Very little about induction I don't know, that has been my specialty for over 40 years.
The difference is that, at 25% flux density,( 2000 RPM ) a small turn to turn short or turn to line short will have a large impact on the AC output. At 100% output, the imbalance between phases will be less noticeable.

**********************
I should add the reference to ground is just that, all the phase voltages are common with other bikes I have tested , the 2000 RPM is within 1 volt, what my 2000 RPM may be over or under your 2000 RPM. Looking for 26 VAC minimum at 2000 RPM within 1 volt phase to phase i.e. A-B 25.0 VAC ;B-C 26.0 VAC; C-A 25.5 VAC, if you get 18VAC; 14 VAC; 24 VAC or some similar combination such as 21 VAC;26 VAC 25 VAC, your stator is failing, in this last example , the 21 VAC would indicate shorted turns.
 

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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
Stator Testing / Loading/ Polaris 4012941&4016868 Discussion Thread

Stator Output 24 amp @ 14 VDC = 336 Watts


Note: December 2016**changed the values of VDC from 14.5 to 14.2 VDC This will cause the calculations done previously to be off, from what is posted***Typical shunt regulator puts out 14.5 to 15 VDC ( malfunctioning shunt regulators have caused ECU failure in the past, due to the fact they only start working / shunting @ or above 14.5 VDC, Series regulator is solid @ 14.2 VDC )

Noted 2019 ;

Be aware if reducing loads by converting to LED, do this only if you have converted to a Series Regulator. The Versys has sufficient power to run heated grips and heated gear for a total of about 150 Watts. Expect to be discharging the battery when below 2500 RPM if running this gear.Reducing base loads on the shunt regulator, primarily converting to LED headlight and LED city lights , could cause shunt regulator failure


I am going to start by saying, I found some startling news as to the Osram 65 Watt bulb I am using, and may be going back to OEM for low beam.

To simplify and reduce text :
Base load=ignition;fuel pump; tail and license plate bulbs; (city lights are LED)= 5.89 ADC @ 14.2 VDC

Headlight = Osram super bright PX26D #64217 rated 65 Watt @ 12VDC, actual wattage @ 14.2 VDC=80 Watts BTW they are now obsolete 5.3 ADC @ 14.2 VDC

Base Load Total including headlight = 162 watts on my 2015


Add approximately 10 Watts if using incandescent city lights


***Approximate Watts Available above Base Load=174 Watts***


****Note , Subtract 10 Watts if you have OEM city incandescent bulbs instead of LED from Available Watts

All loads below are in addition to Base Load


High Beam Light is between 70 Watts for OEM and 80 Watts for Osram

Fan = 4.81 amp @ 14.2 VDC=70 watts

Heated Oxford Grips on Max=3.6 amp to 4 ADC ( each grip 28-30 watts maximum) @ 14.2 VDC = 56.8 Watts Maximum

Gerbing heated Jacket @ 77 Watts = 5.42 amp @14.2 VDC

Fluke meter displaying mVDC is being driven by a hall effect
clamp on amp probe that outputs 1 mV per amp DC, measured at the Compu-Fire regulator positive output wire.

Fluke meter showing VDC is connected to the battery terminals
Testing was done at 1500 RPM with base load and fan

Testing was done again @ 3000 RPM, with base loads and all other loads as described.


:nerd:

Note:
Since this bike has 6 KM on it, is strapped down on my lift and has no other cooling, beyond the rad fan, I felt it prudent to limit how fast and how long I ran this motor , picture #562 is what I would say is maximum output, you may gain 1 volt at 6000 RPM which would be 24 watts. My feeling is we are at saturation with the magnetic field at 3000 RPM. So what I will say is this stater has a maximum output of 348 Watts. Always keep in mind that your battery if less than 12.4 VDC becomes a continuous load. Something I will try and show once the stater is changed out on Smiley's bike.

:frown2:

#565 fan and base electrics
#549 showing regulator and amp clamp
#550 base electrics
#551 base electrics & Fan
#552 base electrics & Fan & low beam
# 553 base electrics, low & high beam
#554 base electrics, low & high beam & heated grips
#562 base electrics, low & high beam & heated grips & fan @ 3000 RPM

Below note updated 2018
Note; when viewing meters, pay attention to the one showing DC mv,the hall effect clamp on amp probe is 1 milli volt per amp,so in photo #554 it is 20.9 amps DC and #563 23.86 amp @ 13.46 VDC at 3000 RPM , increasing to 4000 RPM would bring the voltage up to 14.2 VDC, but we're nearing the output maximum of the stator.

Also in reference to incandescent verses LED, incandescent bulbs have a wattage rating at 12 VDC, a increase to 14.2 VDC will cause a increase in wattage , however the increase in wattage is not directly proportional to the voltage increase. LED bulbs are either fixed current or in the case of headlight bulbs have a driver and a rating of 9 to 32 VDC, the wattage will remain the same no matter what the voltage, however a increase in voltage is inversely proportional to the decrease in current.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Stator Testing '/ Permanent Magnet Induction Testing 101 Post #14

Post #14 from the How To Thread



Every once in a while it becomes obvious I haven't done a good enough job explaining myself, I will say I am a induction specialist ( closest thing I know of to a expert).

So the only accurate way to test a stater in place using permanent magnets is using a rotating magnetic field at a fixed RPM and measuring open circuit voltage phase to phase. FYI OEM is Delta connected, ungrounded, after market is generally Y connected ungrounded.The reason why you can't accurately measure or test is, the magnetic full field is present even at rest / standstill.

Only accurate way to test a stater on the bench is using a LCR meter, not a ohmmeter.

So why a LCR meter, take the number of turns per pole 44 times 6 = 264 turns,Stator Rewinding

divide that into the manual spec resistance of 0.18-0.27 ohms which = .000681 to .0010 ohms per turn, lets go out on a limb and say one pole is completely shorted 0.27 divided by 6=0.045 ohms, let me tell you your leads average 0.25 to 0.50 ohms, so even if you know how to zero your leads, we are talking 0.027 minus 0.045 =0.22 ohms .

Using my method at a fixed RPM will detect even 1 shorted turn, or 1/264 of the effective impedance of the winding, your choice , follow the manual or follow my test method.BTW I don't own anything that will measure 0.045 ohms in place on a inductive load.
Simple explanation : using the open circuit 2000 RPM test--all readings should be within 0.5 volts AC and within 22 to 30 VAC, other-words, you measured A-B =22VAC, B-C =22.5 VAC and C-A =21.5 VAC would indicate stater is good




Simple explanation : using the open circuit 2000 RPM test--all readings should be within 0.5 volts AC and within 22 to 30 VAC, other-words, you measured A-B =22VAC, B-C =22.5 VAC and C-A =21.5 VAC would indicate stater is good

Same test method---A-B = 16 VAC , B-C = 4 VAC, C-A = 2 VAC == Your stater is toast

Same test method --A-B==26 VAC, B-C = 16 VAC , C-A = 19 VAC ==Your stater is toast




BTW reference previously about a grounded stator, except for measuring VAC while running, any pole to ground will measure to ground on all three phases. A little trivia, the Versys stater has 3 phase delta wound, each phase has six poles= a total of 18 poles with 44 turns of 18 gauge magnet wire, for pictures click on stator rewinding and see Fuse_x detailed post c/w pictures.


Note:

I have added a few more tests discussed in this thread, due to the fact the OP couldn't post in technical forum :https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/5-member-introductions/114761-lurking-awhile-finally-posting-looking-help.html


And another thread started where rather than read, just post another thread, posted in Burnt Stator and here:
https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/9-technical-discussion/115977-stator|r-r|battery-trouble-shooting.html
On the up side, some good info from Google, however somewhat complicated and not 100% correct instating the regulator is at fault for failure, it should read the shunt design is at fault
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4HluJSSYjmtcmtBSXdQdHpwdWM/view
 

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Discussion Starter #5
As to the video Skypilot 69, excellent, I would change only one thing, and that is the VAC testing of the 3 phase should be done using the idle adjustment screw, setting at a fixed approximately 2000 RPM. I have stated in other posts why I picked this RPM, and not the RPM called for in the manual. Short answer is shorted turns will show up at lower RPM because the stator is just beginning to produce approximately the same maximum voltage that it would under load. 2000 RPM should output 24 to 28 VAC and all readings should be within 0.5 VDC of each other.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Optional Fuel Extension Line

This is the optional fuel extension line, worth every penny, and changed to male / female using two 5/16 bung to 3/8 hose adapters for a additional $8 , plus a short piece of nylon 3/8 fuel line for free.
This is two 3/8 fuel line to 5/16 bung , joined with some free 3/8 nylon gas line, to convert the Kawasaki fuel extension line--as their line is designed to go directly onto the throttle bodies what a PITA I figured why remove more stuff---


You will notice I have the fuel line connected to the throttle bodies as that was before I was able to make the conversion , also note the original fuel line from the T.B. is above the rubber cover



FYI I already have my bung adapter installed in this photo, I found a complete China one, with male/ female , that was 6 months ago, If I find it I will add it to this thread.


In this series of photos the fuel pump connector, mounting bracket and the extension line in operation, using the fuel extension line connected to the fuel line from the T.B. what a huge difference ( Male bung one end , female the other, I saw a fuel line on Ebay from China with this configuration for about the same price as the Kawasaki line, minus the cost of the two 5/16 bung adapters and 3/8 nylon fuel line), , note the foot peg seen directly below the table, connected on the shift lever side of bike.



Note I have Vaseline, which is a reminder, USE it on the bung adapter, yes initially I tried connecting to the throttle bodies and that was my original vac sync, I thought I was going to break something getting the fuel line off the T.B. Vaseline makes a huge difference. After I decided there needs to be a better way, hence the male conversion bung adapter



I am powering the fuel pump using the connector, removed from the frame.


I included pictures of the connector as it is not obvious as to releasing it.Photo shows the fuel pump release and push connector towards the back of the bike, photo shows the mounting tab.





fuel line to show clip position for removal, identical on all years except the 2015 has a steel bung, previous models were plastic



Take photos , easy to look back later
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Stator Testing / Loading/ Polaris 4012941&4016868 Discussion Thread

A option I recommend Triumph Harness, which involves getting 10 gauge butt splices and 14 gauge, what you require is dependent on the wire gauge of this harness. Triumph Harness advantage, is extra wire length , allowing cutting the original harness connector of Kawasaki leaving 1.5 to 2 inches of wire on the removed connector to allow restoration back to OEM when selling the bike.

Triumph harness, T2500676 Triumph Link Lead, Regulator $9.08 - 2WheelPros Please see post #2 Of this thread

Before starting, a explanation as to headlight relay and parasitic drain. The electronics of the Polaris is designed for a keyed main power relay, the Versys has no such thing, the regulator has full battery voltage to it all the time . Since the design of the Polaris depends on correct polarity as to + - and the control of the output uses the same +, there is a conflict, as the Versys headlight uses one of the 3 phase outputs to trigger the headlight relay.
You need to test the stator before starting, if you have shorted turns, adding a series regulator will free up power to hasten the failure of existing damaged windings, I don't want to hear someone say the Polaris caused damage , follow my post https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/1341721-post1.html

I have come up with 4 options ( 2019 )to bypass this problem when installing either Polaris or CompuFire Series Regulators see post #3



Note October 2019 Option #1 is used mainly if you wish to leave the 3 phase stator plugs intact, you then need follow below, If you don't care about the 3 phase plugs, go to post 57 Option #4


Option #1 and #2 involve removing the gas tank #1 cut black pin #2 1.25" long and connect to gray 1/8 "striped insulation & soldering Pin#3 See Photo Verskpd#2 / Screwdriver


Option #2 also involves using a diode, unless you are familiar with electronics , and don't want the headlight coming on until you are ready to ride, my recommendation is to steer clear of this option.

Option #3 involves buying a cheap 12 volt relay but the gas tank can be left in place.

I strongly recommend installing a voltage indicating device,heads up by signal dynamics or neat little voltmeter as in my photo here

neat little volt meter, extremely accurate, day or night


Parts required & Tools

Triumph harness, T2500676 Triumph Link Lead, Regulator $9.08 - 2WheelPros



Using the Triumph Harness: Keep in mind, with the harness you have a additional 5 connections, you will need to cut the connectors off the end that would go to the stator, and butt splice or solder these 5 connections.The two insulated 10 gauge but splice crimps and three 14 gauge insulated butt splice crimps, are required when using this harness ( if you wish to solder that would eliminate the crimps). Several people have stated they found it easier to use the Triumph harness. I now recommend going this route, many don't know how to crimp and the Polaris is a bit of a oversize spade.



( I no longer recommend this)----if you plan on going with the OEM wiring and no after market harness; you need two insulated 10 gauge female spade stakon crimps and three 14 gauge female spade insulated crimps, ( 2 insulated 10 gauge butt splices , 3 insulated 14 gauge butt splices or solder in place of the crimps ) some silicone, 3 feet of 16 or 18 gauge wire, also 16 inches of #10 stranded insulated, plastic sandwich bag if you are not using the Triumph harness.Using 1/4 inch female spade stakons direct to the Polaris, expect to need to open the very start of the spade connector, as the Polaris male spade connectors are oversize in thickness, using electrical grease sparingly is also a good idea in either case of install.
I used a wrap of electrical tape around each spade connector, this allowed me to pump in silicone into the cavity , I reverse the tape after the first wrap, sticky side out, using half laps refereed to as reverse taping and the purpose of the sandwich bag.

Before you start, remove the positive battery terminal , instead of the main fuse.

Wiring of Polaris colour code, looking at inside male spade terminals, grey socket on left, black output socket on right. Left grey socket is 3 phase input in any order, that is the 3 black wires . Black output socket is left terminal Positive output, OEM Kawasaki Positive wire is white with a blue tracer. Black output socket right terminal is negative output, Kawi colour is black with a yellow tracer.
This is a 07 using the older non Triumph harness method


Again this is the old method, I released some slack in the harness close to the throttle cable, gains about 8 inches of extra wire length. If you had a Triumph harness , butt splices or solder would be in place of the female spade crimps.
Also note the brown wire is taped to protect it, as it is no longer reguired unless you wanted to use it to power led lights from a key switch.

Have a close look at the white/ blue, you will see the black electrical tape on the yellow insulated sleeve, I did one full wrap over the female spade part ,this was done because fully insulated stakons wouldn't fit inside this socket and was done to prevent silicone from entering this area, anyone that has used silicone knows how hard it is to remove once cured

this is the DIY before the Triumph harness was discovered. Notice the brown wire remaining in the harness, this was a keyed control on these early versions, needs to be isolated / taped.

The following photo was before triumph and back or reverse taping, this allows easy removal later, a sandwich bag was used and all the connectors were pushed through a small hole in the bottom, silicone was pumped into the socket and a small amount into the bag, which was taped in place onto the regulator, then the silicone was formed, last reverse tape this later a matter of scoring the tape, once the silicone cures the tape is redundant.


FYI if you make a mistake on the output wires, that is put positive where negative should be **good news, you get nothing outputted , also if you connect all 3 phase, start the bike and don't have both positive and negative connected and also to a battery with a minimum 8 volts, again you will get no output.

This is for option 2, view of my 2015, however all years are similar, note the red clip holding the fuel line in place, I describe this in detail in my valve shim thread. No room in this post as I have a limited # of characters .

So much discussion in previous posts about the diode, if you are not planning on using a diode, see wiring diagram Page 16-80 of the service manual ( 2015).

You need to cut the black wire pin#2 of the center headlight relay, like in my following post. Without a diode there is a 70% chance of the headlight coming on before you hit the brake, remember the headlight relay latches into the on position and will only turn off by hitting the start button or turning the key off, just a FYI. I like to bring the battery up to full charge while warming the bike up and also the load on the motor is reduced, there is a downfall to this circuit, on 2 occasions I have started the bike and was in gear, never touched the brake for 3 KM, and had no headlight, but I have Denali lights on all the time.




View of the relay box 2015 Versys Photos








Top of 2015 showing the fuel tank rubber mounts, tank slides back to remove, also shown is the connector going to the front brake


Front brake connector , note purple wire I added for my headlight relay trigger cct. also note the blue with red tracer is the brake signal and a small piece of insulation was removed and I soldered the purple wire to it





Verspkd #1

So the relay box end , center connector is the headlight relay, below is the connector with pin #2 black wire about to be cut and my purple trigger wire waiting to be soldered
Verspkd #2 Note the Black pin #2 and gray pin#3 with the screwdriver between

here is the purple soldered to the old 3 phase output #1phase wire, pin #2 black, which has been taped the same as the brown wire, no longer needed, but still powered

If you look real close you will see the black wire taped with yellow tape, I use yellow as it is a standard for external live parts and gets your attention

Joint is taped

A trick to taping in confined spaces using a tool such as this bent screwdriver
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
MK-1 & MK-2 Option 1 & 3/ Option #4 April 1 2019

Note Option #4 Added April 1 2019 for those cutting into the 3 phase stator plug using the Triumph Harness, scroll down for this option.

Parts required ,

crimping pliers,wire cutters and strippers, electrical tape,solder iron optional, metric socket and wrenches 10mm, also longer mounting bolts


Part #2 of Option #1
I ran into a character limit of 10,000 so here goes, and more editing as slight changes get destroyed when I go over the limit.
Triumph harness, T2500676 Triumph Link Lead, Regulator $9.08 - 2WheelPros Please see post #2 Of this thread


I recommend cutting the square plugs off ( right side of photo, left side fits the Polaris sockets) as close as possible or removing the pins from the square plugs as these ends will be crimped or soldered to the Kawasaki OEM harness




So much discussion in previous posts about the diode, if you are not planning on using a diode, see wiring diagram Page 16-80 of the service manual ( 2015).

You need to cut the black wire pin#2 of the center headlight relay, like in my following post. This time, you are going to add a jumper from the cut wire pin#2 of the headlight relay socket to pin #3 of the same socket, which is a gray wire, you still need to isolate the black wire you cut in the photo with the yellow tape on it.

The instant the key switch is turned on, so will the headlight--no worries, the instant and for the duration of cranking the bike, the headlight relay is forced off, after release of the start button, bingo on comes the headlight.

Turn your key to off and the light goes off, I can't make it simpler than that.


I added this same photo for clarification, the black wire shown soldered to the purple, could instead be soldered to the gray wire seen in the background of this socket, which happens to be pin #3, so this method there is no purple wire, the front socket going to the throttle side isn't accessed and a much simpler solution.

Last is option #3 for those wishing to leave the gas tank in place and have a cheap 12 volt relay on hand, the current going through this relay is less than 2 amp, however it is important this be reliable other wise your bike won't start.


Revision using Relay / Starter Solenoid Ground 12


I have come up with a third method of installing a Polaris or Compufire regulator without cutting the headlight relay pin #2 wire or removing the gas tank. That is the good news. You need to access the main fuse / start solenoid area, if you follow my posts with the diode in place photo you will see the diode across a yellow with red tracer wire on the left and a black with yellow tracer on the right.It is very hard to see and is on the right side just behind the diode in this following photo




Please go to , write up by Ed, excellent photos and the first one to use my latest method, no removal of gas tank
https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/1366202-post2.html


The black yellow needs to be cut and a relay spliced into the circuit, using a normally open contact. The coil circuit needs to be connected to a keyed on circuit, closest is the tail light license plate light, Red wire.


How it works, keying on will energize the tail light, energizing the relay and complete the ground circuit of the start solenoid, which happens to be the ground for the headlight relay , breaking this connection will remove the 38 milliamp relay coil current when keyed off. The difference is this ground carries the coil current of the start solenoid during starting, about 2 amp, and the headlight relay of about 50 milliamp, once started the only current is the 50 milliamp headlight relay. So you could use a Omron relay like the accessories relay, which would be overkill as to current rating. I haven't tried this but according to the drawing it should work.


Someone wants to try this let me know, one thing is you need to be able to solder or have experience in using wire crimps, when I say experience, the level of a good electrician with proper crimping pliers. Not done right your bike won't start and no headlight. This would take me more time in cutting the tape back on the harness to expose 3 inches of conductor than it would to crimp. The coil circuit of the added relay should be soldered to the red tail light wire and the ground of the relay coil circuit could go to frame ground or crimped under the black yellow that is going to frame ground that you just cut, ( in case someone is following this, when I refer to the wire you just cut, not the socket side).

Fasteddie tried this on his 2015

Option #4 For Those cutting into the 3 phase plug using the Triumph harness

This option eliminates either a relay and lifting the gas tank. First thing to know is if you are using the 3 phase plug from the stator, the 3 phase plug part that goes to the regulator needs to be taped up.

#4A Cut the wires about 1.5 inches back of the 3 phase plug from the stator ( this allows reversal to OEM regulator by using 3 butt splices later) also cut the positive and negative wires at the regulator plug 1.5 inches back of plug for later reversal

#4B If you have cut the plug completely off , wires flush with the connector and don't intend to restore to OEM, also cut the wires off at the OEM regulator plug


Part of 4A Next the OEM regulator positive and negative wires should be cut from the OEM regulator plug and butt spliced to the Triumph harness. cut the positive and negative wires about 1.5 inches back of the plug.
Next the OEM plug needs to be taped up.
The 3 phase plug that you cut 1.5 inches, strip the insulation about 1/4 inch, you can use a wire connector used in house wiring, you need about 2 feet of 16 or 18 gauge wire , you are going to connect one end to the 3 OEM 3 phase wires and the other end to the Horn (you can use a tap connector or solder ), I know this is April 1 , 2019, not kidding, one side is keyed on positive, ( Brown with Black tracer ) the other side goes to the horn button which in turn goes to ground. Keying on will turn the light on, starting the bike will turn off the headlight during starting , and it then after starting it latches on . The horn circuit is only active for about 1 second, and the horn will not sound. For those using a after market horn like Denali and have a relay in place and use the old horn circuit. The Brown with Black tracer is the Positive on the horn, use this .The Black with White tracer goes to the horn button and then to ground.


4B The 3 phase plug at the stator end that goes to the OEM regulator needs to be taped up or cut off . The 3 phase wires from the stator get butt spliced to the Triumph harness .The plug at the OEM regulator gets cut off, butt splice the Positive and Negative to the Triumph harness. Now the 07 Versys had a brown wire to the regulator, some MK-2 had the wire the newer ones the brown was eliminated. For those with a brown wire, join that to the 3 phase wires using a wire connector, this triggers the headlight. For those without the brown wire, tape up the 3 phase wires at the old regulator. Strip insulation off the 3 phase wires at the plug closest to the stator and join those with a 16 or 18 gauge wire using a wire connector, the other end goes to the horn Brown with Black tracer, either solder a tap or use a tap connector.

FYI the headlight uses one tap off 1 of the 3 phase wires, for simplicity, rather than finding which wire of the three, I said join all 3, if you want to go to the trouble to find which one, just key on and provide a positive source to 1 of the 3 phase wires going into the wire harness, the one that turns the headlight on is the one to use, you can tape the remaining 2 wires, nothing / no power, is connected to them within the harness
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hello everyone!

First of all, I apologize if this has been already posted, I tried to search for this issue but couldn't really find anything relevant.
According to the repair manual, the headlight low beam should only turn on after starting the engine, however on my bike the low beam goes on immediately after switching the ignition to on, and I can even toggle the high beam aswell.
The problem is that my headlight button acts as a switch, turning on the high beam will turn off the low beam so only one of them is active at all times, however the pass button will toggle high beam while pressed, alongside low beam.
During this problem my instrument cluster high beam indicator does not light up, even when the switch is on for high beam.
From my understanding and past experiences high beam and low beam should work together and not just only one of them selectively, right?
All the other lights from the instrument cluster work correctly, so what could cause all these issues? I'm decent with mechanical issues, but electrical stuff always beats me.

Any information is greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.
Low High beam switch is correct for the 2007, the passing switch is correct for the 2007. Turning on the headlight with a key switch only is a problem. Two tests I want you to do, it may require a mirror or a second person, observe if the headlight shuts off momentarily while pushing the start button. Second test is to disconnect the stator output wire socket if the headlight goes out during starting, also disconnect the plug going to the regulator, this will be tough but I don't think you want to replace the relay box if not needed.
Follow the wiring up from the stator, in this photo I have my 07 being tested measuring the AC output voltage, there is a connection between the stator, headlight relay and regulator. I suspect your headlight relay has failed fused closed.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Cluster Testing/ MK-1

This has come up several times, rather than send a PM I thought I should post some links.There is a considerable amount of info that should be read by anyone with a fan, starter or cluster display problem . The index in the manual skips much of this. Start at 16-54 of the MK-1 service manual
Starting at 16-69 is testing the cluster ( you need to remove it)
16-74 is the start of checking all the LED's in the cluster.
A question pertaining to this post as to high beam is 16-75 Pay attention to the text and the photo's, for high beam #3 is negative, depending if you check further, additional grounds are required, also in all photos, terminal 1&2 are positive in addition.
High Beam Indicator Light (LED) Battery Positive (+) Terminal to Terminal [11]
So for example if you were testing Neutral Indicator Light (LED) Battery Negative (–) Terminal to Terminal [12] plus #3 to negative , and for positive 1&2 .
 

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Hello everyone and thanks again for all the replies.

So far, under Onewizard's guidance, I've managed to fix the headlights indicator, here's how it went:

First I tested the instrument cluster itself, and all the LEDs were lighting up and everything was working. While I was testing the wires for resistance, I found that the red wire with black tracer on it had no resistance from the instrumet cluster plug to the waterproof joing under the gas tank (it's the blue plug/socket). The red wire with black tracer belongs to the high beam, dimmer switch and also goes into the instrument cluster to terminal 11 which is the high beam indicator light. Correct me if my expression is wrong.

After this I cut into the protective rubber from the dimmer switch assembly wire harness and inside i found that the red wire the black tracer, red wire with yellow tracer and blue wire with yellow tracer (dimmer switch wires) were cut, and to them the low beam/high beam bulb sockets were directly wired to the leads that go into the dimmer switch, and the other leads were just hanging inside. A previous owner did this and the reason remains unkown to me.

I cut and cleaned every wire and I soldered back together the dimmer switch red wire with black tracer and red wire with yellow tracer with the wires that went into the harness of the same color, which were originally cut. To these wires I soldered back the high beam/low beam plugs and the indicator now works when flashing or turning on high beam.

I did not find the blue wire with yellow tracer's other end, but I will get back to it as this needs to be soldered back aswell so that both LB and HB work simultaneously, I think this is why the previously did not.

I will return with an update once I fix the headlights staying on during ignition (all the time) and not turning off when cranking the engine, as the fix was explained to me, but didn't have enough time to apply, between the indicator problem and other maintenance issues I've encountered.

A special thanks to Onewizard for guiding me and explaining to me how these things work, as I am about as rookie as it gets when it comes to electronics.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Regulator / Series / 50 Amp

I copied the above post because it relates to the new 4016868 Polaris Regulator, the post is in burnt stators How To, post 152.As the CompuFire in Mountain Man's post is identical to the Polaris 4106868, except the polaris has 1/2 inch shorter fins, the same footprint as the 4016868

A new series regulator has come on the market, very close to the price of the 412941 Polaris before they jacked the price. I have no experience at this time however I am considering buying one in Canada and doing some tests. Since this is a new product made for Polaris, not everyone has stock. I am posting those that have stock and a good price. New number is 4016868

https://www.polarispartshouse.com/oemparts/p/polaris/4016868/regulator-3ph-50a-series-hispd
4016868 Polaris Regulator - 3PH,50A,SERIES,HISPD $85.64 - 2WheelPros
https://www.motosport.com/oem-parts/part-number/4016868

https://www.partzilla.com/product/polaris/4016868 more $$$$
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Relay Box Internal cct 16-85

OK guess what, we aren't done, 80 PM later>:), well can't fault him for not asking questions. First I am going to mention this is a MK-1 650 KLE-B 2007. The wiring diagram gives the circuitry but the actual wire connections to the center relay are not all headlight relay specific:surprise:. 16-85 gives the relay box actual wiring, unfortunately you need to be part detective as the pin numbers do not have a colour code, the main drawing has colour but no pin numbers, the actual sockets do not have a reference to either pin or colour.
So below is what I found specific to 16-85
#1 Blue/ Yellow goes to headlight dimmer and low beam / passing switch
#2 Black from the 3 phase output of the stator ( this is the wire that gets cut and taped when installing a Polaris regulator)
#3 Grey from cct.#5 10 amp headlight relay fuse
#6 cct#3 15 amp ECU fuse White / Black to ECU relay contact
#7 Brown / White also to ECU controller
#8 White / Red fuel pump + power

The question was asked why the headlight relay is prone to failure when the other relays seldom fail.
Electrical 101 : I am sure everyone on this forum has been around incandescent lights in their lifetime, have you ever noticed when say a existing light in a room (already on ) blinks for a fraction of a second when another light is turned on?? The reason for this is inrush current and if you were to measure a 100 watt light bulb ( 120 VAC )with a ohm meter , it would measure roughly 12 ohms. So watts is voltage times current. To find current divide ohms into volts , so 120 / 12 = 10 amp . 10 amp X 120 volts = 1200 watts , yes 10 times the running current, that is why you see the light blink in your house and why the headlight relay contact fails faster than any other relays. LED bulbs do not have inrush current and the higher the voltage the lower the current i.e. when keying on my Denali lights draw more current than when the bike is running and the regulator puts out 14.2 VDC, the reason is most LED lights have a voltage range they function in and have their own regulator built in or a separate driver
 

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Hello guys!

So, we finally fixed this, my headlights were actually wired into the ignition, so they always come on and stay on when turning the key into the 'on' position. We found out later that the headlight relay was actually fused closed, and the headlights would not come on no matter what. This is actually a common issue with this relay, I saw a couple of posts were people replaced the relay box because the headlights did not come on after starting the engine. After I soldered everything back they way it was from the factory, we proceeded with the fix, as follows:

- a 12v 40 amp 5 pin relay is needed for this (this relay will have the following numbers usually next to it's pins #85 #30 #86 #87 #87A)
- a socket with the harness should be purchased with the relay if it does not include one
- the following wires get cut from the Kawasaki harness that plugs into the relay box: Grey wire from pin #3, Blue wire with yellow tracer from pin #1 and the Black wire from pin #2 (Black wire gets taped up, for later use with Polaris regulators, as mentioned above)
- on my harness, the ground from the starter solenoid, Yellow wire with red tracer, was located on the 10 pin socket of the relay box, pin #11
- the new relay's wires that go onto the #85 and #30 pins, together, get soldered to the Kawasaki Grey wire from pin #3
- the new relay's wire that goes onto the #87 pin gets soldered to the Kawasaki Blue wire with yellow tracer from pin #1
- the new relay's wire that goes onto the #86 pin has to be tapped in and soldered directly on the Yellow wire with red tracer from the starter solenoid (found on the 10 pin socket on my bike), a little wire insulation has to be removed, this must not be cut
- the 3 sockets from the relay box must remain plugged in after doing this, at least on my bike.

Thanks to everyone who replied here, and again, a special thanks to onewizard for guiding and helping me through this, hopefully this method he came up with will help some people save some cash in the future, and learn something more about their bikes, as I did.

Below you can find some photos of how the scheme looks for my bike, the installed relay, and a video of this actually works; the headlights turn on when turning the key to the on position, turn off while cranking the engine, and turn back on when the bike is started.



 

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Discussion Starter #16
Looking For MK-3 / V1000 in Central Ontario

I sent a text out to a new member that had problems with a 1000 Ninja , looking to do some testing on a existing MK-3 V1000 in Central Ontario. Looking at VAC going into the regulator while connected /outputing VDC, also dimensions and mounting location, also part number of existing regulator.

I bought a 50 amp Polaris 4016868 which is the same price as the original 4012941 Polaris before they jacked the price. I ran some tests today and am pleasantly surprised, ran the bike at 2000 RPM for about 15 minutes then at 1500 RPM for 10 more minutes, regulator was sitting on a wooden bench in 27'C temperature no airflow , it was warm to the touch. Devices have a lower voltage drop across them and are more efficient than the 4012941 Polaris, that is the good news. The bad news is the fins are rotated like the Compu Fire , and it is physically larger.

I think it will fit where my CompuFire is now as the CompuFire is a 1/2 higher @ about 2 inches, I have this mounted on a heat sink to transition the 90' fin configuration.


Dimensions of the 4016868 is edge of plug to edge of regulator 4 3/4 inches by 4 1/8 by 1.5 inches





Top view using the mounting plate from the 4016868 under the Kawi OEM regulator

Kawasaki OEM regulator 1 1/16 deep


RPM at 1350, 4016868 under base load of my 2015 650 Versys




Fan running, no headlight, meter reading of 17 VAC correct, note RPM




I included photos originally posted by Mountain man , showing a CompuFire installed on a MK-1 I have tried contacting him for more pictures, with no luck, I have this mounted on my 2015 and intend to swap out the Compufire for the 4016868 because of the increased efficiency of the Polaris




View of 4012941 Polaris mounted

a view from the rear showing the rubber washer for the mounting plate


Polaris 4012941 mounted on 07


07 Versys regulator mounting plate in rear

different view
 

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Stator Testing / Loading/ Polaris 4012941&4016868 Discussion Thread

I have been reading the discussions about the series vs shunt regulators in our electrical systems. I have the V1000 but I think it is the same as the 650.

If I reduce the power consumption by replacing the headlights and city lights with LEDs, (which I have already done) could this possibly cause a problem by requiring more of the generator power to be sent to ground? I have a digital volt meter mounted on the instrument panel and it goes to 14.3 volts as soon as the engine starts and stays there no matter what the rpm or electrical load.

Probably a stupid question, but just had to ask...:smile2:

thanks,
Tom
2015 V1k
Audiovox CCS100 cruise
Givi Crash bars
Givi windshield D4113ST
Amber LED aux lights
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
100% Correct

I have been reading the discussions about the series vs shunt regulators in our electrical systems. I have the V1000 but I think it is the same as the 650.

If I reduce the power consumption by replacing the headlights and city lights with LEDs, (which I have already done) could this possibly cause a problem by requiring more of the generator power to be sent to ground? I have a digital volt meter mounted on the instrument panel and it goes to 14.3 volts as soon as the engine starts and stays there no matter what the rpm or electrical load.

Probably a stupid question, but just had to ask...:smile2:

thanks,
Tom
2015 V1k
Audiovox CCS100 cruise
Givi Crash bars
Givi windshield D4113ST
Amber LED aux lights
As in the title, Possibly I have been trying to get a member to do a simple test, as I saw a 2016 650 Ninja and it appeared to have a Shindengen version ( Polaris Regulator). I need someone with a meter that reads volts AC, insert a couple straight pins or telephone wire into the 3 phase socket from the stator , set idle at about 2000 RPM and measure the VAC, raise the RPM to 2500 and do it again. IF it is shunt ( about 16 to 18 VAC), there will be no change from idle though 2500RPM, if it is series which it might be, the VAC will be above 24 VAC under normal load, and raise as the RPM is increased.

FYI The specs on the V1000 is definetly a larger output stator, to the point that the 4012941 Polaris Regulator would be insufficient in very hot climates, the new 4016868 Polaris rated at 50 Amp would be the way to go, Provided the OEM regulator is a shunt regulator And until someone tests this for me I don't know what the V1000 regulator is.
 

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V1000 Stator test

As in the title, Possibly I have been trying to get a member to do a simple test, as I saw a 2016 650 Ninja and it appeared to have a Shindengen version ( Polaris Regulator). I need someone with a meter that reads volts AC, insert a couple straight pins or telephone wire into the 3 phase socket from the stator , set idle at about 2000 RPM and measure the VAC, raise the RPM to 2500 and do it again. IF it is shunt ( about 16 to 18 VAC), there will be no change from idle though 2500RPM, if it is series which it might be, the VAC will be above 24 VAC under normal load, and raise as the RPM is increased.

FYI The specs on the V1000 is definetly a larger output stator, to the point that the 4012941 Polaris Regulator would be insufficient in very hot climates, the new 4016868 Polaris rated at 50 Amp would be the way to go, Provided the OEM regulator is a shunt regulator And until someone tests this for me I don't know what the V1000 regulator is.
I will do the stator output test on my V1k within the next few days and report back.
thanks,
Tom
2015 V1k
Audiovox CCS100 cruise
Givi Crash bars
Givi windshield D4113ST
Amber LED aux lights
 
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