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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I started looking at mounting my 868 reg. on a gen 2 today. I am planing on removing the rubber mounted angle from the mount assy. I have a section of 1.5 x1.5 steel angle that I am going to drill up so the original mount holes will be near the edge of the flange and the mount holes for the 868 regulator will be near the angle on the same flange. I plan to mount the regulator in a vertical position with .5" spacers so it will have clearance to the swing arm, and to the bolts for the angle. It should be positioned in the large cutout of the swingarm with the connectors down. It is still a work in progress I will try to post pic as I get a chance to work on it more.
Thanks
When you do it, try and get some good photos ( all photos are good, just some are better), also some measurements. There is lots of room there on the 07, less on the 2011, unless you don't have ABS. The 2015 has the ABS occupying a very large area here.
 

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This is on as 2013 versys 650 without ABS.
It took me several tries but I have a regulator mount that I like. The regulator will sit in the hole of the swing-arm with the connectors down and I am going to use the triumph wiring harness.

I removed the old regulator and mount assy.







I removed the rubber mounted angle and regulator from the other bracket. I replaced this with a 1.5" x 1.5" x 1/8" steel angle. A flat strap would work also.
Near the edge of the angle I drilled holes to mount where the rubber grommets were located.
I drilled and taped 6mm x 1.00 holes to mount the regulator to it near the angle on the same flange. First try it was too far forward and hit the swing-arm pivot. 2nd try it was too far aft and hit the battery box. so I cut slots. I ended up using the forward slot to mount both the angle and the regulator. The aft slot attaches the just the angle and the taped hole I drilled mounts the aft end of the regulator. This sets it at a back end up angle.





I used 5 ea 6mm washers to space the regulator away from the angle.



I took it all apart and reinstalled it in the bike. I is a tight fit and it helps to have small hands. put the mount back in the bike, install the new angle on the the mount with both bolts and tighten. Then remove the forward bolt and replace it with the regulator spacer washers and install the bolt in the hole that attaches the angle to the mount. Last install the bolt and spacer washers in the aft mount hole of the regulator.









Next will come the wiring.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Spent a good 30 minutes looking at the photos. You used the original mounting bracket, what it looks like is one bolt hole is used to mount the regulator and the angle to the original bracket, a second hole in your angle is drilled and taped for mounting the regulator and another bolt fastens the rearmost part of the angle to the OEM bracket. You used washers to allow clearance for the bolt head.

Could you have used a piece of 1/4 flat plate 4" X 4.5", raised it another inch higher ? Looking at that regulator and the OEM bracket, trying to mount horizontal with the socket facing forward, looks like it would need to be raised over 1 inch and slopped uphill and the harness installed before mounting. Also looked at having the socket facing up , same issue, would need to have it mounted lower. So after spending another 20 minutes, sort of a back seat driver here, pretty hard to dispute someone able to get their hand on the socket side of the regulator and actually see the whole thing. The foot brake side where the last photos were taken, if you look up, the original wire harness has about 7 inches of excess wire , wire tied or a metal strap holding it up. You should have enough slack to do all the connections on the right side of the bike.

:thumb::thumb::thumb::goodidea:
 

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I had the angle laying around so I used it. A plate could work but I don't think I could get it high enough to not need spacers for clearance to the bolt head. Yes I used the fwd bolt to attach both the angle and the regulator to the oem bracket. The spacers are for clearance to the bolt head and to position the regulator into the swing-arm. The picture with my hand in it is to show that I have clearance to the swing-arm. If you go higher there is a frame tube in the way, back and you hit the battery box, fwd or level and the wiring or connectors might contact the swing-arm pivot. The oem bracket has nuts welded on, and my new angle is threaded so everything threads in from the right side. I
Super glued the spacer washers together and added lock washers under the head of the regulator bolts. The bolts extend out far enough on the left side that I can put nuts on the back side.
I looked at mounting it flat but didn't think I could get the connectors on. They would have hit the brake line or frame tube. I didn't look at putting the connectors fwd.

With the Triumph wiring harness there will be enough to connect to the bike wiring. I can get my hand in above the exhaust to attach the connectors. That will be a project for next week.

I did test my stator with the bike warmed up and idle set at 2000 rpm. I have 21.9, 22.0, and 21.9 battery voltage has at 12v at the end of the test.
 

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I continued on with my regulator installation by doing the wiring modifications. I used Posi-Seal connectors for my wire splices. I will be able to remove them without having to cut any wire back. Small white 2 gray stripe wire is cut and the end taped and pushed into the protective sleeve.





I used a posi- tap for the headlight trigger. Pin 3 black wire cut, harness end taped with electrical tape, plug end into the tap after I attached it to the grey wire pin 2 on the plug. The head light comes on with the ignition switch.



I plugged in the connectors on the regulator and tied up the harness to the frame tube. I had tried to use the open hole from the original harness location but felt that the harness were too close to the swing arm pivot.



Reinstalled the fuel tank and battery then leak checked the tank connection. Then I put on the side fairings so I would be able to take it for a test ride.

I hooked up a meter to the battery cables at the battery and had right around 12v with the key on, headlight came on with the switch. The red light is my heads up voltage monitor.



I then started the bike and got 14.3v at about 1500 RPM.(I had just guessed how much to turn back the idle adjustment after I had set it up to test my stator output). This is with a cold engine.



So off I go. About 2 miles into the ride the heads up is flashing red. Oh crap what happened? I had bought a used regulator. Is it bad? Did I fry my stator? Cut a wire on the suspension?
None of the above. My ground wire to the Posi-Seal had pulled out. No connection No charge.

The Posi-Seal connectors look simple to install but you almost need to have 3 hands. 1 for the wire to make sure it stays pushed in all the way, 1 for the center of the connection and 1 for the end that you screw in. The wire had pulled back as I was trying to line up the threads so I didn't cross thread it.

Everything back together and I got in about 30 miles today. After I was warmed up I was able to set my idle back to normal and when I got home I had 12.8 v with the cooling fan and aux lights on. Idle speed 1100 RPM. give it just a little gas to 1500 RPM and it goes to 14.3 v.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Posi-Seal / Posi Tap/ Proper Crimp/ Not Equal

I thought I should add a clarification, as a professional, I get upset when products come on the market then get endorsed, in the case of posi-seal Web Bike World did a review. Just remember one high resistance connection on 1 of the 3 phase wires could cause stator and regulator failure.I copied a line from one of my posts;The stator is rated at something like 24 amp output, phase current is rated at 14 amp maximum, if you have a phase loss, you will get a single phase condition, with a maximum 24 amp available, hence the burnt stator.https://www.kawasakiversys.com/foru...tator-testing-device-load-ratings-2015-a.html

I will make one comment strictly to do with the posi-seal connectors, anything over 3 amp I would never use them, having said this, that would rule out every connection to do with the regulator except a trigger for the headlight relay if you went that way. You need to understand what metals are used in the make up of these, the principle behind making the connection, and the joint resistance. A proper low conductivity copper crimp exceeds a solder joint and is equal to the same current carrying characteristics of the original conductor,provided it is crimped properly, that is impossible with the materials used in the posi-seal.

So I did some research , they claim 600 VAC & DC rating, yes try and find the approval, lots of glitzy login options on the Home page , all kinds of patent pending, try and find a approval UL ULc , CSA and a very long list, yes they don't exist for this product. https://www.posi-products.com/posi-seal.cfm
I copied their spec sheet, and when I say spec, any crimp used needs to have a current carrying ability which goes through testing and gets approved, it also needs to have a insulation / voltage rating.
Here is the spec sheet, find a current rating or a recognized approval agency. Here is a Canadian crimp manufacturer, all their crimps are tested to a UL standard https://commerce.ilsco.com/e2wShopp...3&parentLink=2100001184:3100012202:3100012793



Just remember when you get a burnt stator, don't blame the regulator, look at your failed connections. Here is another member with a similar situation on a 2015 in the Polaris thread https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/1142858-post49.html

This comes from my 50 amp regulator thread where I also have photos of proper crimping in post #24 https://www.kawasakiversys.com/foru...-polaris-4016868-regulator-series-50-amp.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Crimp

Your call, I included the post from Quexpress, as far as I know, he is still using the posi-taps. I never explained myself, first the design has less surface area, in my opinion requires a certain amount of skill to make sure you have a good connection, and truthfully, if you don't have good crimpers or don't know how to crimp, the results can be the same. A good test is to try and pull your connection apart when completed, this applies to crimping or posi-taps.
This photo was taken on a 07 Versys, notice the wire was beyond the frame, I could have had an extra 5 inches more wire , since you are using the Triumph harness, it should be real easy. I said this before, follow the harness up from the plug end of the old regulator, there is a minimum of 8 inches excess wire tied into the harness, you may need to feel for it, but it is there.



Here is a couple of my preferred crimpers


Something even many electricians aren't aware of, notice the blue crimp, in the middle is a opening, the opossite side is where the crimp joins,note the position of the indent

more to come
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Proper Crimping / Butt Splice / Sample/ Many Others


Triumph Harness
Triumph harness, T2500676 Triumph Link Lead, Regulator $9.08 - 2WheelPros

I thought I would show something which very few understand, and it is the butt splice that can be the most difficult especially when it is a harness made up of 3 or more wires, one bad crimp, now one of the circuit wires is too short, will not wire tie / heat shrink uniformly.

In this post I am using 14 gauge T90 nylon 600 VAC rated wire.

A couple things many aren't aware of, 2 of the 14 gauge wires are equal to one 11 gauge, or in parallel current carrying 30 amp, so gauges double or half by every 3 sizes .Circular mils is always the value you look for, diameter is not directly proportional to circular mils, therefore the larger the gauge, the less room required to give the same circular mils per amp, that is winding a stator with 2 of the 18 gauge wires will take up much more room than winding with a single 15 gauge wire, however it be will be much more difficult winding with a 15 gauge wire So the delta wound stator has two 18 gauge magnet wires attached to each lead. One 18 gauge wire is @1624 circular mils, so this is equal to one 15 gauge wire @ 3256 CM.
AWG Wire Chart, Aught, MCM kcmil, US Inch, and Metric Wire Sizes

The yellow wires 14 gauge T90 nylon, note the stripped wire length in the following photos


Just in case someone thinks I am your average electrician and have just the basic tools, I am showing one of many crimpers that I own, However my go to for 10 to 18 gauge stranded wire and T&B crimps is the orange / black handle T&B crimper . It is quick and having made 1000's of crimps , it is the most reliable.



Note the clear 10 gauge butt splice and the doubled over wire, which gives more surface area, not a substitute for the proper 14 gauge butt splice blue one, however it will perform equal to or greater than the blue crimp, provided you crimp properly


blue 14 gauge butt splice, note the opening in the center, the prime reason for noting is it is important to do identical orientation crimps on a butt splice, as you follow this it will become apparent





notice the opening faces up, the indent on the front of the crimper is up, therefore the indent is on the bottom




And the final product:clap:


I wouldn't hesitate to use the wire to lift 100 LB's, in fact I would expect the attachment point to fail before the crimp fails
 

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I got back into my wiring today. I removed all of the Posi-lock connectors except for the trigger wire. 2 of the stator lead wires pulled out with moderate force. I went back together with yellow heat shrink butt splices. All of the Triumph wiring needed the yellow sized connectors. I used the long strip and fold over technique for the 3 stator leads on the bike side. Another plus was that I could use a single piece of the 1/2" wire sleeve due to the smaller diameter crimps.

No new pics, but it looks almost the same as before but with all the wiring in one sleeve.

Cold idle voltage readings are the same.

FYI I removed just the wiring harness attachment fwd of the brake line and had plenty of room. There is another one fwd of the battery box that will get you even more wire to work with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Crimps/ Posi-splice/ Skill Required

I think I failed to mention that many licensed electricians don't know how to crimp properly, the fact that I worked with extremely high current for over 35 years ( carbon arc welders 2000 amp, large inverters 6000 amp and higher), many times I used a scotch brite pad, the purple ones, to remove oxide on copper buss, may seem overkill however I squared X R ( I for current,R for resistance). ;
The practical explanation for I^2R, is that the power ( measured in Watts) is equal to the single variable of current "I", (which becomes squared in this equation, as you have confirmed mathematically) times the resistance (R) along that path of a circuit. So as long as you keep the resistance small, you can minimize the power consumed or lost as heat. Yes this is why you want thicker wires in longer extension cords. Lower R means less wasted power.
So back on track here, either a crimp or posi-tap posi-splice can be a bad or poor joint, no harm in using a scotch brite pad on the striped wire to remove oxide, much like soldering a copper pipe, a clean connection usually means a leak free connection.Pulling on the joint with moderate pressure on either a crimp or other posi-splice , and it comes apart= a possible failure when you least expect it.
The engineering behind a posi-splice has been out over 20 years, I will keep this short, it was used in large office buildings , whwere we are talking well over 200 work stations, 120 VAC 15 and 20 amp power outlets, some isolated ground power outlets and communication. This was flat multi conductor , duct taped to the concrete floor with industrial carpet over it, very expensive but extremely fast to move complete work stations.
So the problem with any splice that uses the piercing method, keep in mind, much like a airplane wing,( lift is given by a greater distance over the top of the wing) the copper strands need to stretch as the distance around the piercing part causes this, also the primary contact is the piercing part, further out depends on the copper contact of each conductor and in some cases may use those conductors inches away, causing a greater current per circular mil area than the original design of that particular copper conductor say it is 14 gauge rated at 15 amp, the strands in direct contact are equivalent to 16 gauge.Also keep in mind that some conductors could shear in the piercing process.
The second method of the posi-splice , only one side of the copper conductor is in contact and it is about 130% divided by 2 = 65% surface area. A butt splice crimp done properly is about 150% of the original conductor, so larger surface area , an advantage but like other methods , using the wrong tool or not enough pressure or crimping near the edge, crimping in opposite locations on a butt splice, can all lead to failure.
Using a un-insulated crimp and using a un-insulated crimp plus soldering = about the same thing, Eastern Beaver has a series of crimpers along with several photos of what proper crimps look like, key to most crimps is proper pressure.
I picked my T&B and Ideal crimpers because of the mechanical advantage of these two,and the $$$.
You will notice many use the crimp indent located before the pivot point, many don't have the strength to produce a proper crimp, hence the ratchet crimpers, these are prone to maladjustment = insufficient pressure crimp + they are very expensive.


.I am sure I missed something here, one thing I can say is, I made very expensive crimps, many 500 KCMIL and 750 KCMIL using a hydraulic Burndy crimper with proper dies, many didn't know that a proper crimp, the die number would appear on the crimp, if you couldn't see this number, you had a bad crimp and if it failed you may be on the hook for damages and a law suit , ( like death, they have labs to determine the cause of failure of a crimp or electrical device, and I was involved in one, fortunately I was absolved of all blame).
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Your call, I included the post from Quexpress, as far as I know, he is still using the posi-taps.
I should have elaborated and said that if under moderate pulling they remain intact, leave as is, some times what I do is at the extreme or overkill end, why? I worked on extremely complicated machines, nothing like coming back 16 hours of trouble shooting later to find it was indeed a bad connection, hard to explain that to a customer that lost $100,000 in lost production and paid my company $2000 , to top it off, next time he has trouble, do you think he will call me---:surprise: not likely
I got back into my wiring today. I removed all of the Posi-lock connectors except for the trigger wire. 2 of the stator lead wires pulled out with moderate force. I went back together with yellow heat shrink butt splices. All of the Triumph wiring needed the yellow sized connectors. I used the long strip and fold over technique for the 3 stator leads on the bike side. Another plus was that I could use a single piece of the 1/2" wire sleeve due to the smaller diameter crimps.

No new pics, but it looks almost the same as before but with all the wiring in one sleeve.

Cold idle voltage readings are the same.

FYI I removed just the wiring harness attachment fwd of the brake line and had plenty of room. There is another one fwd of the battery box that will get you even more wire to work with.
You need a award :grin2:, I am hoping that the photos I added about crimping help someone, as I have seen bad crimps, on this forum, and kept my mouth shut. No one in this thread>:)

The failure that I had experienced was caused by my DIY stake-ons.


https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/1142858-post49.html


Yes I'm still using posi-taps.
As always a real asset to this forum, thanks for posting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Current Rating 12VDC wire

From the responses here I am not sure everyone understands the purpose of a relay in this context. It exists to supply a common switched source of high current that is ONLY active while the engine is running or the key is ON - depending what you activate the relay from. Kinda like the main switch on the fuse panel of your house that shuts the power on/off to all of your house. Relays are not normally used for individual control of items on a motorcycle, except for the starter motor.

The switched power source keeps items that will still suck small amounts of current when turned off (eg. electronic heat controllers) from draining the battery. It also keeps items that the rider forgets to switch off from draining the battery.

Each item still has it's own individual fuse, switch or controller (optional) and wiring as it would normally have. The POS wire just gets connected to pin 87 of the relay instead of directly to the POS terminal of the batter.

As for wire gauge size this has nothing to do with relays or switches but is dependent entirely on the current flow. See the chart.

So I copied a old post
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
This is on as 2013 versys 650 without ABS.
It took me several tries but I have a regulator mount that I like. The regulator will sit in the hole of the swing-arm with the connectors down and I am going to use the triumph wiring harness.

I removed the old regulator and mount assy.







I removed the rubber mounted angle and regulator from the other bracket. I replaced this with a 1.5" x 1.5" x 1/8" steel angle. A flat strap would work also.
Near the edge of the angle I drilled holes to mount where the rubber grommets were located.
I drilled and taped 6mm x 1.00 holes to mount the regulator to it near the angle on the same flange. First try it was too far forward and hit the swing-arm pivot. 2nd try it was too far aft and hit the battery box. so I cut slots. I ended up using the forward slot to mount both the angle and the regulator. The aft slot attaches the just the angle and the taped hole I drilled mounts the aft end of the regulator. This sets it at a back end up angle.





I used 5 ea 6mm washers to space the regulator away from the angle.



I took it all apart and reinstalled it in the bike. I is a tight fit and it helps to have small hands. put the mount back in the bike, install the new angle on the the mount with both bolts and tighten. Then remove the forward bolt and replace it with the regulator spacer washers and install the bolt in the hole that attaches the angle to the mount. Last install the bolt and spacer washers in the aft mount hole of the regulator.









Next will come the wiring.
This is on as 2013 versys 650 without ABS.
It took me several tries but I have a regulator mount that I like. The regulator will sit in the hole of the swing-arm with the connectors down and I am going to use the triumph wiring harness.

I removed the old regulator and mount assy.







I removed the rubber mounted angle and regulator from the other bracket. I replaced this with a 1.5" x 1.5" x 1/8" steel angle. A flat strap would work also.
Near the edge of the angle I drilled holes to mount where the rubber grommets were located.
I drilled and taped 6mm x 1.00 holes to mount the regulator to it near the angle on the same flange. First try it was too far forward and hit the swing-arm pivot. 2nd try it was too far aft and hit the battery box. so I cut slots. I ended up using the forward slot to mount both the angle and the regulator. The aft slot attaches the just the angle and the taped hole I drilled mounts the aft end of the regulator. This sets it at a back end up angle.





I used 5 ea 6mm washers to space the regulator away from the angle.



I took it all apart and reinstalled it in the bike. I is a tight fit and it helps to have small hands. put the mount back in the bike, install the new angle on the the mount with both bolts and tighten. Then remove the forward bolt and replace it with the regulator spacer washers and install the bolt in the hole that attaches the angle to the mount. Last install the bolt and spacer washers in the aft mount hole of the regulator.









Next will come the wiring.
I must have spent another hour looking today. I have some ideas. If the old mounting was left intact, buy a piece of 2 X 2 angle , same length as your measurement , mount it on top where the old regulator went, have it project out towards the shock side, similar to your spacers , the difference would be to bolt the 868 to the new angle, then out it place and tighten to the old mounting using the OEM mounting bolts. This way everything from OEM would be in place. Also raise the regulator about 1.5 inches or just enough that the forward regulator mounting bolt has room to clear the plate .
 
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