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Obama was giving a great speech up till about 35 minutes in to it. He should have stopped right there and would have got his bill passed. Now I'm not so sure. Any other opinions?
 

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It was never the governments purpose to create jobs. The whole idea is built upon the arrogance that the federal government should be in control of the prosperity of the citizens who pay their salaries. It's a re-election speech and nothing more. He sounds like a cheerleader daring anybody to go against him 14 months out from an election while waving a flag with a tear in his eye...

Mike
 

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It's all smoke and mirrors...........................
 

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Discussion Starter #5
It was never the governments purpose to create jobs. The whole idea is built upon the arrogance that the federal government should be in control of the prosperity of the citizens who pay their salaries. It's a re-election speech and nothing more. He sounds like a cheerleader daring anybody to go against him 14 months out from an election while waving a flag with a tear in his eye...

Mike
Yes, I agree it was a campaign speech. Never-the-less, it was a pretty good one. Up to the point he started chastising his opposition. That's never the way to gain co-operation. However, I think it is going to be pretty hard for the republicans to just walk away from Obama's proposal. Despite how much I would like Obama to be a one termer, I think this has as good a chance passing as anything. The sad thing is, probably the only thing that will heal this economy is time.
 

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Yeah, smoke and mirrors. Reelection speech, maybe. Another boondoggle to run up the deficit, probably. I have as much faith in Obama's new proposal as "breeding unicorns to sell to Chinese millionaires" to boost the economy; it's fantasy.

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/darling-has-secret-plan-to-keep-buggering-about-200811261420/

Does anyone else hear a flushing sound? We're going down the tubes. When is the country gunna wake up and realize our future is doomed if left up to the politicians? These people are too busy poly-ticking, as in sucking blood. I don't care if they are Repub or Dem; I don't trust 'em, and I don't care what color they are. What's the correct answer? Heck if I know.

Here's a possible preview if Obama's new job plan is passed based on what has already happened:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100102917/green-jobs-wot-green-jobs-pt-242/

Not a good track record. I don't see any promise yet in another candidate. All blood suckers IMO.

I should say my life isn't all gloom; my faith in The Creator and my family keeps me going and most times positive, and the V helps too.

We'll come out of this, but not if it's left to a politician, IMO.
 

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... our future is doomed if left up to the politicians? ... I don't care if they are Repub or Dem; I don't trust 'em, and I don't care what color they are. What's the correct answer? Heck if I know....
There are many, too many bad Republicans... but there are virtually no good Democrats.

I follow the sage advice of Ronald Reagan — “Trust but verify” — and then I vote accordingly.
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Obama can sure deliver a good `sounding' speech though – but then again, so did Bill Pullman in the movie “Independence Day” – and I can’t say that I’d want him running the country.

Paraphrasing an old line...

Obama: He’s not really qualified to be a President... but he plays one on TV
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the truth of the matter is, whether you like obama or not, he is an okay politician...

I am dissapointed in the republican party for not having any solid candidates to really give him some good opposition, I really feel that the strongest guy you have in your side is Ron Paul, but no one gives him any love. Mitt Romney will most likely be your go-to guy.

Your other choices are:
  • a crazy lady
  • an interesting guy that scares the crap out of everyone cause he is a direct descendant of the founders of mormonism
  • an entertainer
  • and some other people you have never and will never hear of.
 

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He said it will be paid for.....HOW??? we are so far in dept....raise taxes?? I think not...

Another arrogant BS speech from NOBAMA....
 

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Individuals who wish to lead this country say
"The Government does not create jobs"

But the "Government does not create jobs" or does it. click link and do full screen

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And certainly not here (gotta see it).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And not here either


Four projects I got to work on.

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Hey, here’s an idea... Why don’t we just have the government build some new cities... Where will the money come from you ask. That’s easy, we can just borrow it from the Chinese... or simply print it. Yeah, that’ll work! :)

Of course as we print & put more dollars into circulation, the ones in our paychecks – and the ones that we already have in our savings & retirement accounts – will be worth less... and less... and less... until they’re virtually worthless... but what the hell, everybody will be employed & working on those shiny new cities, so they can buy wheelbarrows.. to carry their dollars to the store.. to buy a loaf of bread! :(

It must be wonderful to have such a straightforward, simplistic & uncomplicated view of how the world works. :rolleyes:

Another option might be to establish an environment that allows American businesses to be competitive in the world, produce goods & services and sell them at a <gasp> profit... and have some money flowing back into the USA for a change.

What can we produce here in the USA you ask. Well, how about we start with energy. The world needs it, the demand is outstripping the supply and we have a slew of it right under our feet!

Opening up those resources would immediately create tens – if not hundreds of thousands of new jobs... the speculators (you know, those `evildoers in the caves’ who drove the gas prices up at Bush & Cheney’s command) would see into the future (that’s why it’s called `the futures market’) and start betting, bidding & driving the prices down (you see, it wouldn’t, as the anti-oil, anti-coal, anti-natural gas, anti-anything that works EnviroWhackos routinely claim “take 10 years to reduce prices”).

Lowered energy costs in America would in turn lower production costs in America on everything that’s manufactured & shipped in America... from cars, to homes, to that loaf of bread...

Yeah, let’s put Americans back to work – but not with illusory & negative cash flow `make work jobs’. Let’s build our bridges & highways with China’s money!
:usa:
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I don't think the problem is energy cost, we pay much less than most nations do for fuel. I think its the labor cost in america, corporations ship the jobs overseas cause the foriegn workers have less rights and lower pay. Cheaper production cost equals more profits. I to would like to see america be productive again, but it seems like american corporations get rewarded rather than punished for sending jobs overseas.
 

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“the only thing we can do restore prosperity is just dismantle government, refund everyone’s money, let everyone write their own rules, and tell everyone they’re on their own.”

Giant Sucking Sound
"The reality is that no matter how smart, how strong, how educated or how hard working American workers are, they just cannot compete with people who are desperate to put in 10 to 12 hour days at less than a dollar an hour on the other side of the world. After all, what corporation in their right mind is going to pay an American worker 10 times more (plus benefits) to do the same job? The world is fundamentally changing. Wealth and power are rapidly becoming concentrated at the top and the big global corporations are making massive amounts of money. Meanwhile, the American middle class is being systematically wiped out of existence as U.S. workers are slowly being merged into the new "global" labor pool."



..... I think its the labor cost in America, corporations ship the jobs overseas cause the foreign workers have less rights and lower pay. Cheaper production cost equals more profits. I to would like to see America be productive again, but it seems like American corporations get rewarded rather than punished for sending jobs overseas.
 

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A Photo Is Worth A Thousand Words.
 

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Hey, here’s an idea... Why don’t we just have the government build some new cities... Where will the money come from you ask. That’s easy, we can just borrow it from the Chinese... or simply print it. Yeah, that’ll work! :).
Actually there is a growing field of Economics called Modern Monetary Theory, (MMT for short), that pretty much makes the case that a sovereign currency, (such as the US dollar), can do just that. Here's a decent primer on MMT in case you're interested. *hint* You should read and try to understand it.


It must be wonderful to have such a straightforward, simplistic & uncomplicated view of how the world works. :rolleyes:
Back atcha!


Another option might be to establish an environment that allows American businesses to be competitive in the world, produce goods & services and sell them at a <gasp> profit... and have some money flowing back into the USA for a change.
I think it's more a matter of demand. The economy sucks right now. When consumer demand is suppressed the only alternative is public expenditures. Besides that, banks are sitting on a 1.3T surplus, and don't lend because of incentives that essentially allow them to borrow from the FED at 0% interest and lend it back to the US at 2-3% without risking anything in the process. We subsidize this "rent-seeking" behavior by the banks. Take away the government subsidies and they'll find more profitable ways to invest in small business and some of that public investment will trickle down to the middle class where it's really needed instead of to the top 1-10% of Americans. Even if we do that, the evidence right now is that business is not investing in growth due to lack of aggregate demand, and only the public sector can step in to reverse that spiral in demand from collapsing even further with even longer lasting effects.


What can we produce here in the USA you ask. Well, how about we start with energy. The world needs it, the demand is outstripping the supply and we have a slew of it right under our feet!
Now that's funny! You're gonna start quoting Rush Limbaugh soon as a source if you continue along that avenue. ;) The US gumint has proven oil reserves at 22.3B blls and natural gas reserves at 255Tcu ft. We are currently importing 9.44M blls of oil per day. So if we could tap all those oil reserves to completely offset imports, they'd last us about 6-1/2 years at our current usage. We're never going to be exporting it in any significant way. With gas we currently use about 24M cu ft/year so we're much better off with seemingly nothing to worry about for a long time, but check the graph out here which shows increasing reliance on shale gas as traditional reserves are depleted. Note the trajectory of the lines in the graph. Now google "fracking, water table contamination". Oil and gas exploration are temporary fixes at best for the economy and potentially environmental calamity for those of us who still live locally, unlike the companies doing the exploration/development. Please note all my sources here are US gumint and *gasp* the Nat gas industry site, naturalgas.org, not some commie/enviro sites.

Opening up those resources would immediately create tens – if not hundreds of thousands of new jobs... the speculators (you know, those `evildoers in the caves’ who drove the gas prices up at Bush & Cheney’s command) would see into the future (that’s why it’s called `the futures market’) and start betting, bidding & driving the prices down (you see, it wouldn’t, as the anti-oil, anti-coal, anti-natural gas, anti-anything that works EnviroWhackos routinely claim “take 10 years to reduce prices”).
Here's something I wrote a couple of years ago which countermands your seemingly unflappable belief in futures markets which you should also read called Goldman Sachs and the Great $2.5T oil scam.


Lowered energy costs in America would in turn lower production costs in America on everything that’s manufactured & shipped in America... from cars, to homes, to that loaf of bread...
We agree on this, just not on how to achieve it. We should be subsidizing alternative energy, subsidizing automobile deep charge battery research/production. We could easily cut our imported energy needs by a third in 25 years if we pursued this course. That lack of demand for fossil fuels will do far more than tapping the remaining domestic fossil fuel reserves to support the dying paradign of transportation and energy we currently labor under.


Yeah, let’s put Americans back to work – but not with illusory & negative cash flow `make work jobs’. Let’s build our bridges & highways with China’s money!
:usa:
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Again, Back atcha. Just substitute "magical thinking" for "illusory & negative cash flow "make work jobs’", and then substitute "Let's destroy our environment without creating energy independence by pumping and fracking our diminishing reserves of fossil fuels" for your last sentence. GO TEAM USA!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware View Post
Hey, here’s an idea... Why don’t we just have the government build some new cities...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miguileto
Actually there is a growing field of Economics called Modern Monetary Theory, (MMT for short), that pretty much makes the case that a sovereign currency, (such as the US dollar), can do just that.

The question isn't IF they can do it. The question is SHOULD they do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miguileto
The US gumint has proven oil reserves at 22.3B blls and natural gas reserves at 255Tcu ft. We are currently importing 9.44M blls of oil per day. So if we could tap all those oil reserves to completely offset imports, they'd last us about 6-1/2 years

Proven oil reserves are just a small percentage of oil available. If proven reserves was all the oil there is, the world would have ran out of oil fifty years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miguileto
Here's something I wrote a couple of years ago which countermands your seemingly unflappable belief in futures markets which you should also read called Goldman Sachs and the Great $2.5T oil scam.

Miguileto, you're obviously a well informed and intelligent person. Therefore I'm sure you realize using something you personally have written to reinforce your opinion is a no no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miguileto
banks are sitting on a 1.3T surplus, and don't lend because of incentives that essentially allow them to borrow from the FED at 0% interest and lend it back to the US at 2-3% without risking anything in the process

Great point that not many people know about. However, many investors don't believe banks are over capitalized now, hence the huge decline in bank stocks the last six months or so. Take a look at BAC for an example. Despite stating over and over they have plenty of capital, they let Buffet fleece them for a capital infusion. Actions speak louder than words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miguileto
We should be subsidizing alternative energy, subsidizing automobile deep charge battery research/production.

Maybe. I recently read a report on how windmills are causing increased emissions from power plants. Power plants run efficiently at steady state, but having to ramp up and down as wind power is available causing increased emissions. That's not going to make environmentalists happy. As for solar, there are areas of the country that just don't get the required amount of sun per year to make it worthwhile.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. There are just no easy solutions. Keep up the good discussions everyone.
 
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