Kawasaki Versys Forum banner
41 - 60 of 61 Posts

·
Registered
2020 Gen3 650
Joined
·
160 Posts
Oil threads, man, they're the worst.

From everything I've read, you gotta get JASO-MA2 spec oil because the wet clutch. Car motor oil will cause excessive slipping of the clutch on a wet clutch motorcycle.

I've run Rotella before, but since the V650 only takes a measly 2 qts, I usually just use Castrol Actevo or whatever 4T motor oil I can get my hands on. My truck uses the same style filter as the Versys, so I keep Wix filters on hand for both vehicles.
 

·
Premium Member
2022 Versys X 300
Joined
·
164 Posts
Oil threads, man, they're the worst.

From everything I've read, you gotta get JASO-MA2 spec oil because the wet clutch. Car motor oil will cause excessive slipping of the clutch on a wet clutch motorcycle.

I've run Rotella before, but since the V650 only takes a measly 2 qts, I usually just use Castrol Actevo or whatever 4T motor oil I can get my hands on. My truck uses the same style filter as the Versys, so I keep Wix filters on hand for both vehicles.
Yes but the JASO-MA2 rating is not the only indicator that anti-friction modifiers aren't present in the oil, the absence of "Energy/Resource Conserving" on the API service label is also. Ergo, every 10w40 oil on the market, all of which lack this label, is okay for a wet clutch. The next question is not what isn't in the additive package, but what is. If you read the MSDS sheets on 10w40 high-mileage synthetic or semi-synthetic car oil vs. 10w40 synthetic or semi-synthetic motorcycle oil, the additive packages are nearly identical. In some cases the extra additives in the car oil are about 80% of the quantity found in the bike oil, and that really is perfectly adequate in a <100hp engine. I'd probably spring for endangered baby bald eagle oil if I owned a $30,000 200hp CBR1000RR-R FireBlade, but I do not. The go-kart engine in my Versys will be perfectly happy with the Mobil-1 full synthetic car oil I pay <$5/qt for. And this is my last comment on the matter, I've said my peace, wish only to save my fellow riders money in this super crap economy, but use motorcycle oil if it gives you peace of mind which is also in short supply these days.
 

·
Registered
Vx300 14/43: Urban Assault Vehicle
Joined
·
905 Posts
I scoured my local Walmart for oil with JASO MA2 certs. I also want to see how 10w30 handles the cooler temps. I walked out with Super Tech ATV oil at $8/qt. It comes in 10w40 too if the 300 likes it.
View attachment 191074
View attachment 191075
Following up on this:
I have 300 miles on it 39F-70F temps. X300 engine is very happy. Spins up like a hot summer day in cooler temps. Feels pretty slick. Gear box is happy with it. Slightly thinner but entirely acceptable. I’m not seeing any oil consumption yet that I have in colder ambient/operating temps. I’m preferring this over 10w40. I might just reserve that for the heat of mid summer.
It’s been a nice fall in MI. More than our share of 60-70F highs. But 30-40F norm temps on the horizon. I’ll put it through my normal torture test (Commute) and see how it holds up compared to my normal Mobile 4T Racing 10w40
 

·
Registered
2019 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT
Joined
·
479 Posts
@invader
I did a good read on 540RAT
Here's some interesting reading

the Japanese Motorcycle Industry and JASO came up with the idea of “motorcycle oil” to address the newer poor clutch design they created just for Marketing reasons.
And adding to all this, is the fact that JASO does not post any specific test data showing the actual “difference” between so-called Motorcycle oils that they want you to buy, and Automotive oils that they don’t want you to buy. All they post is a list of oils that supposedly meet their requirements. There is no transparency at all, for people to actually know what is truly going on. All that secrecy regarding hiding their test data, makes many people think that the whole motorcycle oil requirement is nothing but a scam, especially since no problem shows up in the real world in most cases. As a comparison, I post “ALL” the data that comes out of my Engineering testing, for the whole world to see.
So, what is a motorcycle owner to do? Investigation reveals that reports of motorcycle clutch slippage with 5W30 Resource Conserving Automotive motor oil, comes from high mileage motorcycles, that have old worn clutches, which are glazed, hardened, and have lost their normal gripping capability. “High mileage” is the common thread between all clutch slippage complaints, but the particular oil being used is not. You don’t come across reports of slippage with wet clutches that are new or are in good condition.
So, what is a motorcycle owner to do? Investigation reveals that reports of motorcycle clutch slippage with 5W30 Resource Conserving Automotive motor oil, comes from high mileage motorcycles, that have old worn clutches, which are glazed, hardened, and have lost their normal gripping capability. “High mileage” is the common thread between all clutch slippage complaints, but the particular oil being used is not. You don’t come across reports of slippage with wet clutches that are new or are in good condition.
Therefore, my testing DOES take into account a motor oil’s capability to withstand with the higher levels of mechanical shearing found in most motorcycle engines. Oils marketed as “Motorcycle Oils” sometimes make claims about their better ability to deal with the higher levels of mechanical shearing found in most motorcycle engines. But, my Engineering Testing shows that those motorcycle oils are only making false advertising claims that do NOT stand up when actually put to the test.

* 5W30 Amsoil Signature Series synthetic “automotive oil” = 134,352 psi, ranked 3rd out of 229 motor oils tested so far.

* 5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Duty synthetic “automotive oil” = 133,125 psi, ranked 4th out of 229 motor oils tested so far.

* 5W30 Motul 300V motorcycle oil = 112,464 psi, ranked 25th

* 10W40 Mobil 1 Racing 4T motorcycle oil = 93,661 psi, ranked 90th

* 20W50 Mobil 1 V-Twin motorcycle oil = 75,855 psi, ranked 163rd

* 10W30 ProHonda HP4S motorcycle oil = 66,852 psi, ranked 205th

* 10W40 Valvoline 4 Stroke motorcycle oil = 65,553 psi, ranked 210th

* 10W40 Spectro Motor-Guard High Performance Motorcycle Oil = 57,977 psi, ranked 224th

As you can see, the best High Performance Automotive oils provide FAR BETTER engine and transmission wear protection than most “motorcycle oils”. And as mentioned above, automotive motor oils also typically provide more HP and better MPG, compared to the lower performing motorcycle oils.
So, at the end of the day, motorcycle owners have to ask themselves if they really want to run a poor performing motorcycle oil in their beloved bike, or if they would be better off using a FAR SUPERIOR High Performance Automotive motor oil? The choice is theirs.
.
UPDATE:
The only possible concern about the amazing new in 2021, number 1 Ranked Automotive motor oil, 5W30 Quaker State “Full Synthetic” (QSFS), dexos 1 Gen 2, ILSAC GF-6A, API SP = 152,674 psi, was that it might be “too good” for use in wet clutch motorcycles. But, motorcycle Owner feedback in July 2021, proved that this amazing new motor oil works just fine in wet clutch motorcycles, meaning there was no clutch slipping at all. Of course that applies to wet clutch motorcycles with clutches that are in good condition.
 

·
Registered
Vx300 14/43: Urban Assault Vehicle
Joined
·
905 Posts
So Kawasaki is in on the oil scam and printed JASO MA2 in their owners and service manuals?
I’m sure there’s oil products that didn’t submit and pay for the cert that also work just fine.
 

·
Registered
2019 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT
Joined
·
479 Posts
So Kawasaki is in on the oil scam and printed JASO MA2 in their owners and service manuals?
I’m sure there’s oil products that didn’t submit and pay for the cert that also work just fine.
It is an interesting read, should check it out. Dude is a Mechanical Engineer not just John Doe. We never heard of JASO 50 years ago, also all you ran was automotive oils that's all there was. If you want to at least read the motorcycle section it's #33 little more than half way down....https://540ratblog.wordpress.com
 

·
Registered
Vx300 14/43: Urban Assault Vehicle
Joined
·
905 Posts
So is this oil guy’s only measure of the best oil this psi stat? I’m not sure his methodology. I do know that it takes more than a single characteristic to be good, or the best motorcycle oil. I’ve been looking for a good colder weather alternative, for example. Because my well performing oil becomes less well performing when ambient temps drop below 50F.
I dismiss his mountains of data on what I should use, based on a single characteristic. What’s good in one machine might not be so good in another. Deserts of Mexico or a snowy mountain pass in Alaska? High rev or low rev engine?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,169 Posts
So is this oil guy’s only measure of the best oil this psi stat? I’m not sure his methodology. I do know that it takes more than a single characteristic to be good, or the best motorcycle oil. I’ve been looking for a good colder weather alternative, for example. Because my well performing oil becomes less well performing when ambient temps drop below 50F.
I dismiss his mountains of data on what I should use, based on a single characteristic. What’s good in one machine might not be so good in another. Deserts of Mexico or a snowy mountain pass in Alaska? High rev or low rev engine?
That's why I like using Motul's 100% Synthetic – Ester oil.

MOTUL 7100 5W-40 4T
Rectangle Font Parallel Circle Screenshot

Gesture Font Liquid Auto part Machine

MOTUL 7100 5W-40 4T - Motul


There are also 0W-40 Ester synthetics which would work well for you.

Motul Lubricants Snowpower 4T 0W-40 Oil - 105891 Snowmobile - Dennis Kirk

MOTUL SNOWPOWER 0W-40 4T
Rectangle Font Circle Number Screenshot

Liquid Automotive tire Product Bottle Automotive lighting

MOTUL SNOWPOWER 0W-40 4T - Motul


RED LINE 0W40 POWERSPORTS OIL
Font Screenshot Number Rectangle Circle

Bottle Liquid Bottle cap Fluid Drink

  • For Four-Stroke Snowmobiles, UTVs & Side by Sides, ATVs, sportbikes and other powersports vehicles
  • Superior film strength through the use of ester base stocks for protection and ring seal
  • Extended drain intervals over other brands due to higher quality base stocks and excellent dispersants
  • Blended with specific friction modifiers that are compatible with wet-clutches
  • Suitable for JASO MA applications
Red Line Synthetic Oil. 0W40 Powersports Oil (redlineoil.com)
 

·
Registered
Vx300 14/43: Urban Assault Vehicle
Joined
·
905 Posts
My first thought was 5w40. I grabbed a jug of Rotella T6. The 300 engine seemed happy. It felt too light for the gearbox. I ran it for a week, 300 miles and dumped it. I really didn’t want to dump good oil and buy another round. So it was enough to make me want to do that.
I replaced it with Super Tech 10w30 ATV (also available in 10w40). The engine has never been more responsive. Spins up with less resistance is what I’m feeling. A tad slicker in the gearbox compared to Mobil 1 T4 racing 10w40, but totally acceptable. Other products I’ve tried previously are Kawasaki 10w40 and Valvolene 10w40 motorcycle, all synthetic. I’m loving the Super Tech 10w30 ATV product thus far. In fact, if it may become my go to product outside the peak summer temps. Service manual recommends it up to 86F (30C). Quart size bottles are on the shelf at my local Walmart for $8, compared to $11 for the Mobil 1 T4. I may try other 10w30 products carrying JASO MA2 cert if I find them. Possibly without if tempted enough.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,690 Posts
I ran it for a week, 300 miles and dumped it. I really didn’t want to dump good oil and buy another round. So it was enough to make me want to do that.
That's why I don't bother experimenting beyond finding an oil that works well for me. You have a specific need that you're looking for, so I'm not harassing you, just using that statement as a jumping off point.

Might I find an oil that saves me a few $$ per year? Might I find an oil that has some kind of superior lube properties? Might I gain a small amount of hp or mpg? Maybe. But the $$ I waste on oil and filters while experimenting has to be figured in, too.

Were I running a fleet of bikes that run up big miles, yeah it would be worth considering. But I ride one bike and it gets one oil change per year typically. The oil and filter I use are plenty good for purpose, and I change them often, well within their service life. The potential gains just aren't worth the time and $$ experimenting with other oils.
 

·
Registered
Vx300 14/43: Urban Assault Vehicle
Joined
·
905 Posts
No worries. I’m just looking to take care of my machine. Price is not the primary consideration. I’ve been happy using the product in the thread title. I’ve noticed my machine and operating conditions Is consuming some of it when it gets colder out. Seeing how other oils perform compared to the Mobil1 in such conditions and sharing my findings 👍
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
530 Posts
That's why I don't bother experimenting beyond finding an oil that works well for me. You have a specific need that you're looking for, so I'm not harassing you, just using that statement as a jumping off point.

Might I find an oil that saves me a few $$ per year? Might I find an oil that has some kind of superior lube properties? Might I gain a small amount of hp or mpg? Maybe. But the $$ I waste on oil and filters while experimenting has to be figured in, too.

Were I running a fleet of bikes that run up big miles, yeah it would be worth considering. But I ride one bike and it gets one oil change per year typically. The oil and filter I use are plenty good for purpose, and I change them often, well within their service life. The potential gains just aren't worth the time and $$ experimenting with other oils.
Agree with this. I've been running Castrol Power 1 for a while. The bike takes two quarts, and I ride about 5,000 miles per year, so $22 a year for oil is worth knowing I'm using good oil made for motorcycles. Yes, there are people that ride 20,000 miles a year, and the cost savings of using cheap non-motorcycle specific oil could be significant, but for the majority of riders that's just not the case.
 

·
Registered
Vx300 14/43: Urban Assault Vehicle
Joined
·
905 Posts
300 miles of “cold weather” testing the super tech 10w30 ATV in my x300 is yielding very favorable results. The oil consumption I‘ve consistently experienced with the Mobil 4T 10w40 product when operating in colder temps has gone away. The engine is notably more responsive, runs more like it does in warm weather. It’s measurable in the indicated mpgs too. The 36F ride home last night measured 55 mpg over 25 miles. I would normally expect to see 58 mpg at the pace taken. Last year I saw 48 mpg on this trip at this temp. I’ve seen enough.
I’ll go back to 10w40 for summer operation. Otherwise, it’s clearly demonstrating a preference for the 10w30 in the cooler operating temps. Ran good at 70F too. Just felt a tad lighter in the gearbox.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
Not to start another oil thread war (I'm a veteran of the oil thread wars of 2005...we lost a lot of good men...), but the Mobil-1 10w40 High-Mileage Full Synthetic is pretty much the same thing but only $24 for 5qts. Been using that and various other 10w40 car oils for 20+ years now. Did the deep deep digging into Amsoil and Mobil's MSDS sheets to examine the formulation and additive packages and the only reason you're paying >$10/qt is because they printed "motorcycle" on the bottle. Anyone who chimes in with, "Yeah but it lubes the transmission" should know ATF is only ~7wt and the Getrag 5sp in my Chevy Colorado used 5w30 engine oil, so engine oil has the anti-sheer properties to survive a transmission. Also EVERY 10w40 on the market lacks the "Energy/Resource Conserving" entry on the API label so, yes, it's wet clutch safe. I put 31,000 miles on a MeanStreak and 28,000 miles so far on a 1700 Nomad using 10w40 car oil with zero issues. Used it in every bike I've owned. If a picture of a bike on the bottle is worth double the price or an extra $15 per oil change helps you sleep at night, hey...sometimes it's worth it if you suffer from anxiety I guess.
Rotella T4 and T615w40 diesel engine oil actually does meet the JASO MA/ MA2 specifications and is about the cheapest "good" oil on the market. It has been in my KLR650 since it's first oil change.
 
41 - 60 of 61 Posts
Top