Not to start another oil thread war (I'm a veteran of the oil thread wars of 2005...we lost a lot of good men...), but the Mobil-1 10w40 High-Mileage Full Synthetic is pretty much the same thing but only $24 for 5qts. Been using that and various other 10w40 car oils for 20+ years now. Did the deep deep digging into Amsoil and Mobil's MSDS sheets to examine the formulation and additive packages and the only reason you're paying >$10/qt is because they printed "motorcycle" on the bottle. Anyone who chimes in with, "Yeah but it lubes the transmission" should know ATF is only ~7wt and the Getrag 5sp in my Chevy Colorado used 5w30 engine oil, so engine oil has the anti-sheer properties to survive a transmission. Also EVERY 10w40 on the market lacks the "Energy/Resource Conserving" entry on the API label so, yes, it's wet clutch safe. I put 31,000 miles on a MeanStreak and 28,000 miles so far on a 1700 Nomad using 10w40 car oil with zero issues. Used it in every bike I've owned. If a picture of a bike on the bottle is worth double the price or an extra $15 per oil change helps you sleep at night, hey...sometimes it's worth it if you suffer from anxiety I guess.I never expected walmart would have these but they did. I was at the automotive section to get some mobil one advanced full synthetic for my vehicle and saw they have the Racing 4T in stock. Glad they have them nearby so i wouldnt have to order from Amazon.
LOL Just as well you no longer ride.33. CAN WET CLUTCH MOTORCYCLES USE “FAR SUPERIOR” AUTOMOTIVE MOTOR OILS?
The controversy about whether or not wet clutch motorcycles really require a special motorcycle oil, is a commonly debated topic on Internet Motorcycle Forums. And questions about all that have come up in this Blog’s Q&A Section a number of times over the past year or so. It has to do with claims that wet clutch motorcycles can experience clutch slippage if 5W30 Automotive “Resource Conserving” motor oils are used. But, the problem with that claim is that many motorcyclists use a variety of 5W30 Automotive “Resource Conserving” motor oils in their motorcycles with no problem at all.
I have an extensive background with motorcycles. Before College, I spent the early part of my technical career first inside the Japanese Motorcycle Industry at the Dealer level in the Service Department, then later, inside at the Corporate level, in the Motorcycle Service Division. Because of that experience inside the Industry, I do NOT trust the Japanese Motorcycle Industry nor the Japanese Automotive Standards Organization (or JASO for short), to do the right thing. One of the reasons I don’t trust them, is because they made a huge, completely unnecessary change many years ago, that created the reason we are even talking about all this in the first place.
Motorcycle clutches used to be properly Engineered with the correct amount of spring pressure for excellent performance and trouble free operation. But, later the Japanese Motorcycle Industry decided that they wanted the clutch lever pull to be lighter, to make their bikes seem “nicer”, in order to appeal to a broader audience to increase sales and profits. So, they violated proper Engineering design in order to follow that Marketing goal. In doing so, they reduced clutch spring pressure so much, that the clutch lever pull became light enough for an 85 year old Great Grandmother with arthritis to operate it. Now, all this discussion about what oil is required, is nothing more than a “work around plan” to deal with that Marketing driven mistake.
If motorcycle clutches had continued with sufficient spring pressure, as proper Engineering calls for, there would be no talk about a supposed need for so-called motorcycle oil. But, the Japanese Motorcycle Industry and JASO came up with the idea of “motorcycle oil” to address the newer poor clutch design they created just for Marketing reasons. How convenient for them. Now they can increase their profits by selling their own motorcycle oil, to try and cover up what they did, rather than lose face and go back to proper clutch design. They obviously believe that two wrongs, make a right. Nothing is ever what it appeared to be at first glance. And once people know what actually went on in the background, they really have their eyes opened.
And adding to all this, is the fact that JASO does not post any specific test data showing the actual “difference” between so-called Motorcycle oils that they want you to buy, and Automotive oils that they don’t want you to buy. All they post is a list of oils that supposedly meet their requirements. There is no transparency at all, for people to actually know what is truly going on. All that secrecy regarding hiding their test data, makes many people think that the whole motorcycle oil requirement is nothing but a scam, especially since no problem shows up in the real world in most cases. As a comparison, I post “ALL” the data that comes out of my Engineering testing, for the whole world to see.
So, what is a motorcycle owner to do? Investigation reveals that reports of motorcycle clutch slippage with 5W30 Resource Conserving Automotive motor oil, comes from high mileage motorcycles, that have old worn clutches, which are glazed, hardened, and have lost their normal gripping capability. “High mileage” is the common thread between all clutch slippage complaints, but the particular oil being used is not. You don’t come across reports of slippage with wet clutches that are new or are in good condition.
Here are just a few examples of Owners using far superior 5W30 Resource Conserving Automotive motor oil in wet clutch motorcycles, with no problems at all:
A Mechanical Engineer Colleague of mine has a wet clutch 2006 Suzuki GSXR 1000cc Sport Bike with around 7,000 miles on it, at the time of this writing. He is running 5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability (often abbreviated as QSUD) synthetic, Resource Conserving Automotive motor oil in it. And he has NOT had any problems at all with the clutch or shifting. At this time, that oil ranks 4th in my Engineering Motor Oil Torture Test, Wear Protection Ranking List, out of 229 motor oils tested so far.
And as a matter of fact, he was so happy with that 5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability synthetic, Resource Conserving Automotive motor oil in his Suzuki wet clutch motorcycle, that when he got a new 2018 Yamaha XSR900 Triple wet clutch motorcycle, he used that oil in it as well. So far, his Yamaha has fairly low mileage on it, but he has NOT had any problems at all with the clutch or shifting. He highly recommends using that or similar 5W30 Resource Conserving Automotive motor oil in wet clutch motorcycles.
And one of my Blog readers: Jim J. said, “I have been following your blog for several years now. I am using 5W30 Quaker State Ultimate Durability (QSUD) in my three vintage BMW K bikes (’94 K75RT, ’88 K100RS 2valve, and ’91 K100RS 4valve) with excellent results”.
Simply put, it is NOT true to say that wet clutch motorcycles cannot use 5W30 Resource Conserving Automotive oil. The fact is:
Virtually any wet clutch motorcycle will work just fine with most any automotive oil, including 5W30 Resource Conserving oil, as long as the clutch is in good condition.
However, those who wrench on their own motorcycles, can easily improve their clutches for even better performance, to the way they should be when properly Engineered. For motorcycle clutches that use coil springs, those springs can be changed to stiffer springs, if any are available. Or the stock springs can be shimmed at their base, with proper sized washers, if there is enough clearance to still avoid clutch spring coil bind, when the clutch lever is pulled all the way in.
You can easily check that by doing a test assembly of the clutch, with the shimming washers in place. Then pull the clutch lever to see if the lever pulls all the way to the handlebar with no binding. If there is no binding due to clutch spring coil bind, you are good to go, and will have a much better clutch. I did this a number of times, when I used to own motorcycles. And the small increase in clutch lever pull effort was never an issue for me. In fact, I actually liked it better than the weak limp feel of the factory setup.
A NOTE ON THE POTENTIAL FOR HAND FATIGUE WITH STIFFER CLUTCH SPRINGS:
Depending on just how stiff, the stiffer clutch springs might be, that people upgrade to, it may be possible to experience hand fatigue, if the bike is ridden in traffic with a lot of stop lights. However, even many stop lights in your ride, do not have to cause hand fatigue in most cases, if you are smart about the way you operate the clutch. I have observed countless times, that motorcycle riders, especially younger riders who are not technically savvy, will sit at a 2 minute stop light, HOLDING THE CLUTCH IN, the entire time. WOW!!! That is just asking for hand fatigue. You should NEVER do that in the first place. So, if you stop that ill-advised behavior, it could eliminate hand fatigue that those riders may experience.
The reasons you should NEVER do that include:
• It causes hand fatigue
• It puts totally unnecessary and excessive side-loading on the clutch disengagement bearing, and other bearings on that shaft
• It adds heat to the oil as the clutch plates slide over each other
• And though not a technical issue, it makes you look like a total beginner who doesn’t even know what you are doing, which in this case would be true
Consider this: If you click the transmission into neutral as you come up to a stoplight, it takes only 1 second’s worth of a clutch lever pull. That compares to 120 seconds worth of a clutch pull if you sit there and hold the clutch in for a full 2 minute stop light. If you encounter say 10 stop lights on the way to your destination, and 10 stop lights on the way back, for a total of 20 stop lights in a single day. That equals 2,400 seconds of holding the clutch in per day, vs 20 seconds if you simply put the transmission in neutral each time and let the clutch back out while you sit there.
In a 5 day work week, that equals 12,000 seconds, or 200 minutes, or 3.3 hours PER WORK WEEK that you sat there holding the clutch in. PER MONTH, that equals more than 13 HOURS of holding the clutch in!!! You can see how crazy that is. So, you do NOT have to be a Medical Doctor or have a PhD in Mechanical Engineering, to see that holding the clutch in when it is not needed, is a TERRIBLE IDEA. So, if you are guilty of doing that, do your hand and your bearings a favor, and STOP DOING IT. And of course it only takes another 1 second’s worth of a clutch pull, to stab the transmission back into gear, to get rolling again.
The same thing applies to holding the clutch pedal down on cars and trucks at a stop light. You are putting unnecessary wear and tear on the clutch’s throw out bearing and on the crankshaft’s thrust bearing. If you are guilty of doing that, you should do yourself a favor, and STOP doing that as well.
A QUICK AND EASY WAY TO IMPROVE PUTTING A MOTORCYCLE INTO NEUTRAL, AND TO GENERALLY IMPROVE SHIFTING OVERALL:
On a related note, it is fairly common for wet clutch motorcycle riders to experience some difficulty in shifting from 1st or 2nd gear into neutral. That is typically caused by a slight amount of clutch drag, even when the clutch lever is pulled all the way in, which adversely effects the “feel” of putting the bike into N. The reason is because that slight clutch drag keeps the gears loaded, which makes it more difficult to put it into N. It has been like that forever. And I have not seen the particular oil being used, make much difference in that.
But, I have a simple and easy way for you to improve the clutch action/shifting. All it takes is to “carefully” bend the clutch lever “end” further outward away from the handlebar. The distance between the clutch lever to handlebar contact point, and the handlebar itself, when the lever is released to its resting position, should be INCREASED by about 10 mm or 3/8″ more than it was originally. The extra clutch lever movement provides some additional clutch disengagement. That will take the load off the gears, so that finding neutral will be much easier, and it also allows for easier shifting in general. I did this on the motorcycles I used to have. And that minor modification always took care of the issue for me. So, other motorcycle riders might want to consider doing the same thing on their own bikes.
The way to do this clutch lever bending modification without damaging or breaking the lever, is to wrap the lever in a two or three of layers of rags. Then use a large box end wrench for leverage to carefully, controllably, slowly, and repeatedly bend the lever forward a little at a time. For that bending operation, position the box end of the wrench over/around the lever, at several places along the lever, for a little bending at each location, between about a third of the way out from the pivot, to about two thirds of the way out from the pivot. You don’t want to try and bend it too close to the pivot, or too close the tip. I have done this modification many times with no problem at all.
An alternative to this clutch lever modification, as it relates to improving putting a motorcycle into neutral, would be to simply slip the motorcycle into neutral just BEFORE it comes to complete stop.
Even if people don’t want to deal with changing or shimming clutch springs, they can still run a quality high performance 5W30 Resource Conserving Automotive motor oil that provides FAR BETTER engine and transmission wear protection than all but one Motorcycle oil I have tested. And high performance automotive oils will also typically provide more HP and better MPG, compared to low performing motorcycle oils.
When motorcycle clutch discs do eventually become old, worn, glazed, hardened, and have lost their normal gripping capability, they can be more prone to slippage with 5W30 Resource Conserving Automotive motor oils than with poor performing motorcycle oils. But, by then the clutch discs are due for replacement anyway. And it is far better to replace the clutch then, rather than compromise their bike’s engine and transmission wear protection for years, from using poor performing motorcycle oils.
Under anything near normal bike riding conditions, any eventual old worn clutch slippage issue will be a gradual thing over time. It will not just suddenly slip completely and leave you stranded. And if push comes to shove, you can always change back to poor performing motorcycle oil, to stretch out the use of an old worn clutch, for a little longer.
Just below is a comparison between the top High Performance Automotive 5W30oils and the motorcycle oils I have tested (the higher the psi, the better the wear protection). Keep in mind, that my Engineering Motor Oil Torture Test determines every oil’s “film strength/load carrying capability/shear resistance value”, which all mean the same thing and exactly apply to motorcycle conditions with the transmission gears sharing the same oil with the engine, and are represented by the psi value posted in my Wear Protection Ranking List.
Therefore, my testing DOES take into account a motor oil’s capability to withstand with the higher levels of mechanical shearing found in most motorcycle engines. Oils marketed as “Motorcycle Oils” sometimes make claims about their better ability to deal with the higher levels of mechanical shearing found in most motorcycle engines. But, my Engineering Testing shows that those motorcycle oils are only making false advertising claims that do NOT stand up when actually put to the test.
* 5W30 Quaker State “Full Synthetic” (abbreviated QSFS) “automotive oil” = 152,674 psi, ranked 1st (updated)
* 5W30 Amsoil Signature Series 100% Synthetic “automotive oil” = 141,851 psi, ranked 2nd (updated)
* 5W30 Motul 300V motorcycle oil = 112,464 psi, ranked 25th
* 10W40 Mobil 1 Racing 4T motorcycle oil = 93,661 psi, ranked 90th
* 20W50 Mobil 1 V-Twin motorcycle oil = 75,855 psi, ranked 163rd
* 10W30 ProHonda HP4S motorcycle oil = 66,852 psi, ranked 205th
* 10W40 Valvoline 4 Stroke motorcycle oil = 65,553 psi, ranked 210th
* 10W40 Spectro Motor-Guard High Performance Motorcycle Oil = 57,977 psi, ranked 224th
As you can see, the best High Performance Automotive oils provide FAR BETTER engine and transmission wear protection than most “motorcycle oils”. And as mentioned above, automotive motor oils also typically provide more HP and better MPG, compared to the lower performing motorcycle oils.
Most motorcycle engines:
* Make far more power per cubic inch, than car engines.
* Rev far higher than car engines.
* Typically get run much harder than most car engines.
*Share the same oil for both the engine and the transmission, which subjects the oil to considerably higher levels of mechanical shearing.
Therefore, I recommend using High Performance Automotive oils in motorcycles, wet clutch or not.
So, at the end of the day, motorcycle owners have to ask themselves if they really want to run a poor performing motorcycle oil in their beloved bike, or if they would be better off using a FAR SUPERIOR High Performance Automotive motor oil? The choice is theirs.
The only possible concern about the amazing new in 2021, number 1 Ranked Automotive motor oil, 5W30 Quaker State “Full Synthetic” (QSFS), dexos 1 Gen 2, ILSAC GF-6A, API SP = 152,674 psi, was that it might be “too good” for use in wet clutch motorcycles. But, motorcycle Owner feedback in July 2021, proved that this amazing new motor oil works just fine in wet clutch motorcycles, meaning there was no clutch slipping at all. Of course that applies to wet clutch motorcycles with clutches that are in good condition.
540 RAT - Tech Facts, NOT Myths (wordpress.com)
Not to start another oil thread war (I'm a veteran of the oil thread wars of 2005...we lost a lot of good men...), but the Mobil-1 10w40 High-Mileage Full Synthetic is pretty much the same thing but only $24 for 5qts. Been using that and various other 10w40 car oils for 20+ years now. Did the deep deep digging into Amsoil and Mobil's MSDS sheets to examine the formulation and additive packages and the only reason you're paying >$10/qt is because they printed "motorcycle" on the bottle. Anyone who chimes in with, "Yeah but it lubes the transmission" should know ATF is only ~7wt and the Getrag 5sp in my Chevy Colorado used 5w30 engine oil, so engine oil has the anti-sheer properties to survive a transmission. Also EVERY 10w40 on the market lacks the "Energy/Resource Conserving" entry on the API label so, yes, it's wet clutch safe. I put 31,000 miles on a MeanStreak and 28,000 miles so far on a 1700 Nomad using 10w40 car oil with zero issues. Used it in every bike I've owned. If a picture of a bike on the bottle is worth double the price or an extra $15 per oil change helps you sleep at night, hey...sometimes it's worth it if you suffer from anxiety I guess.
I consider full synthetic anything from Mobil-1 to be "the good stuff" but there's likewise no anti-friction modifiers in the oil you suggest so knock yourself out, sounds like good stuff.If you like paying less for automotive oil from Walmart, get the good stuff and try Valvoline's superior 5W-40 European Vehicle Full Synthetic Motor Oil ... Its viscosity is slightly higher than both Mobil 1's 10W-40 High Mileage Full Synthetic Motor Oil and Racing 4T 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil at operating temperature, while relatively lower on startup.
$26.97 Valvoline European Vehicle Full Synthetic 5W-40 Motor Oil 5 QT - Walmart.com
$26.28 Mobil 1 High Mileage Full Synthetic Motor Oil 10W-40, 5 qt - Walmart.com
Valvoline European Vehicle Full Synthetic Motor Oil 5W-40
View attachment 190932
Mobil 1™ High Mileage 10W-40
View attachment 190929 View attachment 190931
Mobil 1 Racing™ 4T 10W-40 Motorcycle Oil
View attachment 190933
US_Val_EuroVehicle_5W40_MO_EN.pdf - DocuSign CLM (springcm.com)
Mobil 1™ High Mileage 10W-40
Mobil 1™ Racing 4T 10W-40 motorcycle oil
View attachment 190919
Mobil-1 High Mileage Full Synthetic is also not Energy Conserving rated because it's a W-40 oil... It still has the API's older SP service category spec.I consider full synthetic anything from Mobil-1 to be "the good stuff" but there's no anti-friction modifiers in the oil you suggest so knock yourself out, sounds like good stuff.
The absence or presence of the words "Energy Conserving" or "Resource Conserving" on the API service label is THE indicator of whether or not anti-friction modifiers are present in the oil. I've never found a 10w40 oil that said "Energy/Resource Conserving" so all are wet clutch friendly. The European 5w40 likewise lacks these words and is likewise wet clutch friendly. The statement "some may still contain friction modifiers" is, therefore, false.Mobil-1 High Mileage Full Synthetic is also not Energy Conserving rated because it's a W-40 oil... It still has the API's older SP service category spec.
View attachment 190937
All engine oils of SAE W-40 viscosity or higher (such as 5W-40 and 10W-40) are not Energy Conserving rated. However, some may still contain friction modifiers which are undesirable for use with a motorcycle's wet clutch..
From Castrol; "Note: The low friction characteristics of Castrol Edge 0W-40 make it unsuitable for most motorcycles that incorporate wet clutches in combined engine and transmission systems. Castrol’s prime recommendation for this application is Castrol R4 Superbike."
Valvoline European Vehicle Full Synthetic Motor Oil
Valvoline European Vehicle Full Synthetic Motor Oil is designed specifically to meet and exceed the demanding requirements of most European gasoline and diesel engine manufacturers. Our exclusive formula uses top wear additives, premium antioxidants and added detergents to fight wear, resist oil breakdown and defend against deposits better than industry standard, all with exceptional high and low temperature protection. Valvoline invented motor oil 150 years ago, and we’ve been reinventing it ever since. Get Valvoline European Vehicle Full Synthetic and give your premium motor the oil it deserves.
- PROVEN TO REDUCE WEAR with advanced anti-wear additives that offer an extra layer of protection
- RESIST OIL breakdown with high-caliber antioxidants that fight oil-degrading oxygen
- DEFEND AGAINST SLUDGE & DEPOSITS with extra engine-cleaning detergents
- Superior antioxidants resist motor oil breakdown in extreme conditions
- View attachment 190938
- European Vehicle Full Synthetic - Valvoline
- US_Val_EuroVehicle_5W40_MO_EN.pdf - DocuSign CLM (springcm.com)
Controversial, heated, endless, misinformation-riddled....yes....at the end of the day I'm only trying to save my fellow 2-wheeled brothers and sisters money I wholeheartedly believe is being thrown away on a marketing ploy. I treasure my rides same as everyone else here and wouldn't risk engine damage on a hunch, I only switched after doing the due diligence in researching exactly what's in these oils and in what amounts. There is no super special Unobtainium in motorcycle oil, the primary difference is the absence of friction modifiers and, to a lesser extent, the additive package (ZDDP, etc) which the high-mileage car oil is essentially identical. Over on the Vulcan forum, 80% of the members use Shell Rotella 15w40 diesel oil in their bikes, some with six digit mileage.Oil threads do seem to be pretty controversial in nature. Whether right or wrong, everyone is entitled to their own oil opinion.
That being said, my oil of choice in my Ninja: