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Typical problem with the spade connectors oxidizing and overheating. Your fix is to cut them off, use splices and solder the wires.
That is, if you're keeping the original regulator.... a better fix is an upgraded regulator......
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I had that happen when I tried using an aftermarket stator.
Typical problem with the spade connectors oxidizing and overheating. Your fix is to cut them off, use splices and solder the wires.
That is, if you're keeping the original regulator.... a better fix is an upgraded regulator......
The Regulator looks to be an aftermarket one says tour max on it I removed it to check and clean the connector
Not sure about the stator if its aftermarket or not
Battery is not charging at all now ( no surprise )
If I probe the wires from the stator on Vac and run the engine around 4k I see about 11V ac but could be due to poor connection with all the melted plastic but I suspect the stator is prob toast
I have some new oil and filter there so I will prob pull it off to have a look
J
 

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The Regulator looks to be an aftermarket one says tour max on it I removed it to check and clean the connector
Not sure about the stator if its aftermarket or not
Battery is not charging at all now ( no surprise )
If I probe the wires from the stator on Vac and run the engine around 4k I see about 11V ac but could be due to poor connection with all the melted plastic but I suspect the stator is prob toast
I have some new oil and filter there so I will prob pull it off to have a look
J
I will give it a try here, many seem bent on following the Kawasaki service manual--I am at a point that I really don't care if you follow my testing or not--My take on the service manual if you follow their tests and you buy a meter strictly to follow their test. Save some money and just take the stator cover off after draining the oil. If you have a meter and want to know 99.99% for sure if the stator is good or failed follow my post. I have recently explained how I arrived at this test, it isn't patentable so I don't care who uses it.

 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I will give it a try here, many seem bent on following the Kawasaki service manual--I am at a point that I really don't care if you follow my testing or not--My take on the service manual if you follow their tests and you buy a meter strictly to follow their test. Save some money and just take the stator cover off after draining the oil. If you have a meter and want to know 99.99% for sure if the stator is good or failed follow my post. I have recently explained how I arrived at this test, it isn't patentable so I don't care who uses it.

Howdy Onewizard
I do care that you have replied to the thread and very much appreciate you taking the time to reply and value your opinion
I will remove the plug and strip back some of the insulation as its toast anyway
I have a meter with the croc clips in the attic and will charge up the battery and do the suggested test
I will update the thread hopefully tomorrow as it is the evening here in Ireland now
thanks for you help
J :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Right so I cut off the burnt connector in the previous post and stripped back some insulation
Warmed up the bike and set about some testing

183701


183702


183703


A to B = 8.9V AC
B to C =11.5 AC
C to A =6.2 AC

Removed the Stator and to be Honest it does not look as bad as some I have seen here
183704


183705
 

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Right so I cut off the burnt connector in the previous post and stripped back some insulation
Warmed up the bike and set about some testing

View attachment 183701

View attachment 183702

View attachment 183703

A to B = 8.9V AC
B to C =11.5 AC
C to A =6.2 AC

Removed the Stator and to be Honest it does not look as bad as some I have seen here
View attachment 183704

View attachment 183705
Welcome to the Burnt Stator Club. I think congratulations are in order as you used my test method!!
 

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I am going to ask a favour, could you use an ohmmeter and measure A to B etc. and post that. Also if you have a setting of REL on your meter, select ohms and select REL, with your leads shorted out, what REL does is subtract the value of your leads from when you do the measurements, anytime you change ranges you need to do that again. Another way is short out your leads and mark down the value, subtract that from your final reading of A - B etc. Also if you have a Low Ohms setting, use that the same way.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I am going to ask a favour, could you use an ohmmeter and measure A to B etc. and post that. Also if you have a setting of REL on your meter, select ohms and select REL, with your leads shorted out, what REL does is subtract the value of your leads from when you do the measurements, anytime you change ranges you need to do that again. Another way is short out your leads and mark down the value, subtract that from your final reading of A - B etc. Also if you have a Low Ohms setting, use that the same way.
yep no worries I will do that tomorrow as it is late in the evening now almost 10pm here in the garden county
I will post the results :)
J
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
yep no worries I will do that tomorrow as it is late in the evening now almost 10pm here in the garden county
I will post the results :)
J
C
Ok so not done yet got the stator out of the shed
Results are
A to B = 000.1
B to C= 000.1
C to A =000.1


183707





183708


183709
 

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Your ohmmeter tries to measure 0.150 ohms with a precision of 0.1 ohms. That's a huge error.

If your voltmeter is better at measuring millivolts than your ohmmeter is at measuring miliiohms, you can do this tension divider:

You would measure a known R1: too small and it's also imprecise and risk too much current, and heating resistors also change resistance.
R1 wattage should preferably be rated well above the wattage it would see.
Rx is the resistance of the stator winding under test.

Let's assume the ohmmeter has an error of 2 ohms on this 220 ohms R1. Let's say 1% error.
V1 may be off by 0.1V on 12V, another 1%,
and off by 1mV on ~9.2 mV, so ~10%.
I think we can expect 1.01 * 1.01 * 1.10 = 1.12211
i.e. ~12% error on the Rx measure.
That's better, but unlikely to find a few shorted turns...



I think the ac voltage ( and balance across phases) at fixed rpms and under some load, is a much more revealing measure of the health of the stator.
The wizard is right...
 

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Your ohmmeter tries to measure 0.150 ohms with a precision of 0.1 ohms. That's a huge error.

If your voltmeter is better at measuring millivolts than your ohmmeter is at measuring miliiohms, you can do this tension divider:

You would measure a known R1: too small and it's also imprecise and risk too much current, and heating resistors also change resistance.
R1 wattage should preferably be rated well above the wattage it would see.
Rx is the resistance of the stator winding under test.

Let's assume the ohmmeter has an error of 2 ohms on this 220 ohms R1. Let's say 1% error.
V1 may be off by 0.1V on 12V, another 1%,
and off by 1mV on ~9.2 mV, so ~10%.
I think we can expect 1.01 * 1.01 * 1.10 = 1.12211
i.e. ~12% error on the Rx measure.
That's better, but unlikely to find a few shorted turns...



I think the ac voltage ( and balance across phases) at fixed rpms and under some load, is a much more revealing measure of the health of the stator.
The wizard is right...
Very good explanation. I am not sure if he followed my advice about REL, his meter has it, normally it will show in the display to indicate this. I also own a milliohmeter but it is AC and can output up to 100 amp. The AC part is the downfall. That is a excellent example of converting ohms to volts. Your R1 would be good with a 1 watt resistor . Even so, it would never pick up even 10 shorted turns. His readings are a direct example of how fast and accurate that test is. We have had enough people all over the world post values open circuit at different rpms . If for nothing else to prove the issue is more likely the stator and rules the regulator out for later diode testing.
 

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So a little more tech here to explain how hopeless the Kawasaki service manual instructions for testing the stator;
18 gauge magnet wire is 6.385 ohms per 1000 feet or 0.006385 ohms per foot or One of my posts/ threads below, The stator has 44 turns per pole and each pole is 96 inches X six poles =332 inches so each pole is 0.000532 ohms per inch.
Each turn is 96 divided by 44 = 2.18 inches, so ten turns would be 21.8 inches or 0.011172 ohms
Each pole is 0.051072 ohms and each phase is 0.306432 ohms

What hasn't been mentioned is resistance in parallel. I am going to give a value for calculation purposes and it may become clearer how hopeless using an ohmmeter actually is. I realized this 26 years ago.
So delta connected, the values hypothetically are 10 ohms each phase. So we are going to try and measure A to B . So A to B is 10 ohms in parallel with 20 ohms the measured resistance is 6.67 OHMS-- not sure how many can see this, we can't measure just A to B phase because it is delta connected
Each phase before being connected delta is roughly 50 feet at 0.31925 ohms per phase or 0.31925 in parallel with 0.6385 =0.21 ohms connected delta

Stator Rewinding
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for the replies
I am not sure if he followed my advice about REL, his meter has it,
Yep Shorted the leads and pressed REL you can see it in the first photo in top left of the display triangle shape
but do you need to do this for every measurement I only did it at the start
The meter is set to auto but you can select moving the decimal point
sorry don't know what the technical term is for selecting resistance if that's what moving the decimal point is
J
 

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I think it is apparent that the simple method of setting 2000 RPM and 3 voltage AC measurements gives extremely accurate results. Even the most basic of meters can measure VAC .
You have been a good sport of all this testing-- still need to replace the stator . Any help that I can provide , all you need to do is ask.
 
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I went to check my own.
The resistance measure via the voltage divider is not precise to expectations. It gave me 350-450 ohms. I would expect infinite or too low, but I didn't expect that.
I used a 104 ohms in series (expecting about 120mA from a 12.33 V older battery) and I suspect it heated up and raised its resistance (or the old battery voltage dropped quickly) and decreased the effective current. Of course I was absent minded enough to not think about putting a amp meter in series... It's hard to take my time and think smart when sweating all over...

Simply:
Rx = measured millivolts / mesured milliAmps

Duh!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Quick update I replaced the stator with what I can afford at the moment spent €80 on oil and a filter last week just before the stator gave up :-(
the replacement stator cost €48 + €14.50 in tax and charges +€6.50 shipping from uk ( Brexit )
It arrived yesterday and I fitted and happy to say its working and I'm back on the road 14.9V while riding
I would have liked to buy a better quality item but waiting for payday so the eBay special will have to do for the moment
had a lot of fun trying to remove the melted plastic from the connector on the loom side as the new stator plug would not go in far enough
Went out for a 3hr test ride today :) all appears to be going ok
Cheers
J
 

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Rx = measured millivolts / mesured milliAmps
On mine, all 3 phases show about 43mV / 117 mA = 0.367 ohms, which is quite puzzling since it is well over the 0.264 ohms maximum from the service manual.
 
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