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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
I go by the book unless something requires me to get in the engine between changes. Had a stator go this summer and then a leak after the repair so I've done 3 changes this summer.

I'll have to do some digging but I've read some articles saying changing your oil to frequently can actually be bad for your engine. I cringe when I see bikes for sale that say "oil changed every 500-1000 miles"

Again, I have to find the article or video and it's been awhile but if I remember correctly it said something about oil preforming better after being "broken in".

Kawi says 12k, I try to shoot for 10-12k. If I do a lot of riding in the rain or dirt I shorten that a little.

I just added air filter pods to my intake so I'm curious to see if the oil stays cleaner for longer this go around.
The only reason it can be bad for your engine is if you change the oil filter. If I remember correctly, there is some short interval before the oil fully flows. It is probably nonsense.

I am curious about your filter pods. What are they?

I personally believe that changing oil according to manufacturer recommendations is bad for the engine. They want you to buy a new bike as soon as possible.
 

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2011 Versys 650 and 2001 Bonneville 790
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I go by the book unless something requires me to get in the engine between changes. Had a stator go this summer and then a leak after the repair so I've done 3 changes this summer.

I'll have to do some digging but I've read some articles saying changing your oil to frequently can actually be bad for your engine. I cringe when I see bikes for sale that say "oil changed every 500-1000 miles"

Again, I have to find the article or video and it's been awhile but if I remember correctly it said something about oil preforming better after being "broken in".

Kawi says 12k, I try to shoot for 10-12k. If I do a lot of riding in the rain or dirt I shorten that a little.

I just added air filter pods to my intake so I'm curious to see if the oil stays cleaner for longer this go around.
I read something similar about 15 years ago - a study claimed that after an oil change, wear in an engine was actually higher for the first 1,000 miles or so and then decreased as the oil "aged" for the next few thousand miles. Doesn't make any sense and seems counterintuitive bit it is another "data point". Most modern motor oils will easily last 10,000+ miles in "normal" operation (i.e.. no multiple short trips where the oil does not reach full operating temp.). The discussions seem to be endless on the subject of when to change motor oil but when was the last time you really heard of an oil related engine failure due to extended oil drain intervals? Many people use automotive oils (no JASO certification) in their motorcycle engines without any downside (including slipping clutches). No sense changing too often as it impacts the environment for disposal and your wallet. With most modern motor oils (JASO or not) 7,500 to 10,000mile oil change intervals more than likely will not result in any engine / transmission failures. Typically the oil base stock does not wear out, it is the additive package that becomes depleted / contaminated which requires the oil to be replaced.
 

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Discussion Starter · #63 ·
I read something similar about 15 years ago - a study claimed that after an oil change, wear in an engine was actually higher for the first 1,000 miles or so and then decreased as the oil "aged" for the next few thousand miles. Doesn't make any sense and seems counterintuitive bit it is another "data point". Most modern motor oils will easily last 10,000+ miles in "normal" operation (i.e.. no multiple short trips where the oil does not reach full operating temp.). The discussions seem to be endless on the subject of when to change motor oil but when was the last time you really heard of an oil related engine failure due to extended oil drain intervals? Many people use automotive oils (no JASO certification) in their motorcycle engines without any downside (including slipping clutches). No sense changing too often as it impacts the environment for disposal and your wallet. With most modern motor oils (JASO or not) 7,500 to 10,000mile oil change intervals more than likely will not result in any engine / transmission failures. Typically the oil base stock does not wear out, it is the additive package that becomes depleted / contaminated which requires the oil to be replaced.
yes, this does not make sense. engine likes fresh oil. it removes the deposits from the piston rings and keep the engine clean. it is like to say 'old oil is better than new oil for engine protection'. 10000 miles, are you serious? the oil looks sick at that point. I care too much for my bike to do such things.

anyway, I am going to stick with my routine to change oil every 3000km or a bit more. There is the environment issue of course. the the sun is going to die soon anyway, not in our lifetime :). If I cared about environment, I would ride a bicycle.
 

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My opinion comes from airplane piston engines and automotive engines which I have decades of experience with. I'm not a motorcycle engine design engineer nor a motor oil chemist.

Oil life depends on several variables, including number of start/run/stop cycles, excessive heat, humidity, how hard the engine is tortured, and just plain time.

For most of us, we don't ride 10k+ miles in a year. We don't actually wear out our oil in a year's time of miles. We do put in contaminants, and some ride the bike pretty hard (more so than the average automobile driver). Some ride in very dusty dirty places, make water crossings, etc.

Lack of use is hard on engines. Fresh oil may provide a better long term protective film than old oil. When an engine sits disused for weeks or months at a time, any oil film remaining will protect against corrosion only if the film is there and if the oil itself doesn't contain water or corrosive contaminants.

Thus, my opinion is it is smart to change the oil at least every year to remove the contaminants even if we have only put on a few thousand miles.

Long highway miles are almost "free" in terms of engine wear and oil degradation. I'd have no issue with putting twice as many miles on an oil that way compared to the typical suburban commuting or dusty back road camping.
 

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I read something similar about 15 years ago - a study claimed that after an oil change, wear in an engine was actually higher for the first 1,000 miles or so and then decreased as the oil "aged" for the next few thousand miles. Doesn't make any sense and seems counterintuitive bit it is another "data point". Most modern motor oils will easily last 10,000+ miles in "normal" operation (i.e.. no multiple short trips where the oil does not reach full operating temp.). The discussions seem to be endless on the subject of when to change motor oil but when was the last time you really heard of an oil related engine failure due to extended oil drain intervals? Many people use automotive oils (no JASO certification) in their motorcycle engines without any downside (including slipping clutches). No sense changing too often as it impacts the environment for disposal and your wallet. With most modern motor oils (JASO or not) 7,500 to 10,000mile oil change intervals more than likely will not result in any engine / transmission failures. Typically the oil base stock does not wear out, it is the additive package that becomes depleted / contaminated which requires the oil to be replaced.
Yeah that's what I remember seeing. Only thing I could think is the viscosity modifiers in fresh oil may not expand as quickly until "broken in", causing the oil to not stick to engine components as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #66 ·
Yeah that's what I remember seeing. Only thing I could think is the viscosity modifiers in fresh oil may not expand as quickly until "broken in", causing the oil to not stick to engine components as well.
this is possible, even though it is kind of very 'hypothetical'.
 
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