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2016 Versys 1000 CBF1000 VFR800
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Kawi says oil change on my V1000 is 12000 km..... got a clipboard and a log sheet, just write whatever mileage and date down. OR, any problem counting by 6's? What if you're on a three week trip that takes you more than that?
 

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2011 Versys 650 and 2001 Bonneville 790
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12k km seems like awfully a lot. looking at my magnetic oil plug, even after 3k I see metal shavings attached to it. because I have several bikes so it does not feel like I change the oil so often, and I like changing oil; it gives me pleasure seeing that the engine gets new fresh blood. but maybe it is overkill, i don't know. I wonder if there were any studies about how the length of the intervals in changing the oil would affect the longevity of the engine. I guess it is difficult to draw a clear conclusion because there are so many variables, like riding style, etc... by the way, I change the oil filter every second time.
Oil change intervals are a very emotional subject and highly based on personal preference. An oil's appearance is not a reliable factor in determining it's ability to lubricate or protect an engine properly. The only way to really know an oil's status is to perform a "Used Oil Analysis" (UOA) which will cost more than the oil change itself.

I would suggest you perform a bit of research and make your own decision - try the two listed websites as they make very interesting reading (especially "Bob is the Oil Guy").

Motorcycles and Motorcycle Lubrication

Motorcycles and Motorcycle Lubrication

You will find that this subject has been and will be debated for all eternity. Read and decide for yourself.
 

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12k km seems like awfully a lot. looking at my magnetic oil plug, even after 3k I see metal shavings attached to it. because I have several bikes so it does not feel like I change the oil so often, and I like changing oil; it gives me pleasure seeing that the engine gets new fresh blood. but maybe it is overkill, i don't know. I wonder if there were any studies about how the length of the intervals in changing the oil would affect the longevity of the engine. I guess it is difficult to draw a clear conclusion because there are so many variables, like riding style, etc... by the way, I change the oil filter every second time.
Sorry - somehow got the same link twice.
Try this one also.
https://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html#Oil
 

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I change mine twice a year. And I'm well within the limits. I change it in the late fall when I put the bike away for the winter. So the bike sits over the winter with fresh oil in it. Then I change it the second time somewhere in the middle of the summer.
 

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25. Recommended Oil Change Interval – For Automobiles “AND” Motorcycles, including Motor Oil Age Info

I normally don’t mention anything about oil change intervals, figuring that everyone can decide that for themselves. But, I’ve had a number of people contact me to ask what oil change interval they should use. So, I put together the following write-up, to address that question.
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There is quite a wide variation when it comes to recommended oil change intervals for normal daily driven street vehicles. Vehicle owners get recommendations from:
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• Quickie Oil Change places that usually call for 3,000 mile change intervals.

• Owner’s Manuals that now can often say 7,500 miles or more.

• Modern vehicle computerized dashboard oil change indicators that can vary anywhere from about 5,000 to 10,000 miles, depending on the model, brand and driving habits.

• Then there are the premium synthetic oils from mainstream Oil Companies and from Companies that only sell premium synthetic oils, who try to get you to buy their extra expensive motor oil, by saying you can use extra long oil change intervals, such as anywhere from 15,000 to 25,000 miles, or even annually.

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Trying to make sense of all those conflicting recommendations is enough to give some people a headache. So, let’s see if we can make some sense out of all this.
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• You can completely ignore the 3,000 mile oil change interval called for by the Quickie Oil Change places. There is no technical reason to change oil that often in normal daily driven street vehicles. Of course it doesn’t hurt the engine if you do, but it is simply a waste of money and resources, while increasing environmental waste, with virtually no benefit to your engine. This recommended change interval is only so those Oil Change places can make more money off the unsuspecting motoring public.

• Owner’s Manuals have been known to drastically revise their recommended oil change intervals to far longer, at a model year change, even when nothing has changed on the model involved. This happens because Auto Makers can use longer oil change intervals to claim a reduced cost of ownership, while at the same time reducing environmental waste.

But, the reality is, it does not truly mean that the same vehicle as the previous year model, with the same oil, can now magically go perhaps an extra 50% or more between oil changes. These longer intervals are driven by Corporate Business decisions, not by Engineering decisions. It has gotten so ridiculous with some vehicles, that you are better off to ignore the overly long oil change intervals that are now commonly printed in Owner’s Manuals.
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• It is fairly common for the computerized dashboard oil change indicators in modern vehicles to not match the vehicle’s own Owner’s Manual. Of course the Owner’s Manual numbers are an overall approximation of driving conditions and driving habits, where the computerized dashboard indicator takes into account engine temp, throttle opening, rpm, etc, etc. So, some people might assume that the computer is more precise than the Manual. But, don’t believe it, because the computer is programmed for extra long oil change intervals for the same reasons as the extra long oil change intervals printed in the Manuals.

I have a late model daily driver vehicle myself, with a computer oil change indicator that shows that I should go “TWICE” as long between oil changes, compared to my previous similar model from the same maker, which was only a few years older, all while they both were driven exactly the same. And of course the computer doesn’t know if I’m using cheapo discount conventional motor oil or very expensive premium synthetic oil, labeled as extended change interval motor oil. So, once again, you are better off to ignore the overly long oil change intervals that are now commonly indicated by the computer.

• Then we have the premium synthetic oils from mainstream Oil Companies, as well as from Oil Companies that only sell premium synthetic oils. And retail prices on those premium oils tend to be so high that their sales are weak in the marketplace. So, those Companies devised a Marketing strategy which advertises that their oils are so good that buyers can use far longer change intervals, such as anywhere from 15,000 to 25,000 miles, or even annually. Their idea is, since customers can buy their oil less often, that it will offset the super high cost of the oil, in an attempt to convince the general public that the high price is justifiable. All in hopes of increasing sales and profits. But of course, Marketing/Advertising being what it is, they leave out the dirty little secret that, no matter how good any oil is, or how much it costs, it will still get extremely dirty and contaminated, thus needing changing, WAY, WAY BEFORE that many miles. More on that below.

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Now we’ve seen that all the various recommendations above have only the interests of others in mind, rather than your best interest or your engine’s best interest in mind. Therefore, it is best not follow those oil change interval recommendations, if you really care about doing what’s best for your wallet and for your engine. So then, what oil change interval should we use?
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I’ll answer that by telling you the oil change intervals I’ve used in normal daily driven street vehicles for years, why I do it, and why I recommend others do the same. Then you can decide for yourself.
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I use a 5,000 mile oil change interval in my own normal daily driven street vehicles. This interval is long enough that it lets you get your money’s worth from the cost of the oil change without causing any negative impact to an engine. Changing oil much sooner than that, obviously does not hurt engine, but you’d be throwing money away for no reason, since shorter intervals provide no benefit to an engine.

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—————– USED MOTOR OIL TEST DATA SUMMARY
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I’ve sent a number of quality used motor oils with 5,000 or so miles on them, to a motor oil Lab for component quantity testing, to see how much the additive package components had been depleted during that interval. Here’s what I found, on average, for that group of oils:
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• The overall anti-wear package component levels had dropped by about 24%
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• The detergent level dropped by about 9%
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• And the TBN (acid neutralizer) dropped by a significant 51%
The reason so much of the additive package was still available in the used oils I had tested, was because those oils were subjected to only normal daily driving. And additive package component quantities are typically high enough to begin with, so that they won’t be totally depleted prematurely by severe/extreme usage, such as racing, heavy loading, towing, mountainous or off/road operation, extended idling, mostly short trip operation, or extended hot or cold operation, that could take place, where the additive package would be used up at a faster pace.
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I also performed my normal Engineering Wear Protection Capability Testing procedure (which is worst case motor oil torture testing, designed to find a motor oil’s ultimate capability or failure point, which is what we compare) on those “USED” oils with 5,000 or so miles on them. These were all well-known quality name brand “USED” motor oils, drained from different brands and models of normal daily driven vehicles, driven by different drivers.

However, “USED” motor oils are not listed on my Wear Protection Ranking List, because my Ranking List is made up of only brand new oils, so that we have a standard consistent baseline for the comparison of numerous motor oils.

It turned out that those “USED” motor oils produced mixed test results because of varying degrees of contamination, abrasive particulate build-up, dilution from fuel and/or condensation water, general deterioration, and chemical changes, as mileage accumulated on them. Here is a Summary of the wear testing results of those “USED” oils:

• There was no loss of wear protection capability in some of those “USED” oils, which produced PSI levels similar to when they were new, even though the zinc/phos (ZDDP) level in particular, had dropped by about 25%. And that is clear “PROOF” that ZDDP levels DO NOT determine wear protection capability.

• Some of those “USED” oils produced PSI levels that were as much as 10% HIGHER than when they were new. Again, even though the zinc/phos (ZDDP) level in particular, had dropped by about 25%. And that is still further “PROOF” that ZDDP levels DO NOT determine wear protection capability.

• And some of those “USED” oils totally failed my normal motor oil torture testing procedure, and completely seized, which was quite alarming. However, engines don’t typically load their motor oil as severely as my Engineering testing does. So, these total oil failures don’t necessarily mean that it will happen in any given engine. Again, my testing is worst case motor oil torture testing, designed to find a motor oil’s ultimate capability or failure point, which is what we compare. But, these total oil failures do point out how far “USED” oil capability can fall. And how much closer your engine could be to experiencing oil related trouble.

• These mixed test results did not correlate with any particular motor oil brand, motor oil product line, viscosity, or type of motor oil.

• And these mixed test results, are additional proof that if you care about providing your engine with the best possible wear protection, you should use reasonable oil change intervals, NOT extended oil change intervals.

Because following reasonable oil change intervals, is by far the best plan for changing “USED” oil before its uncertain wear protection capability could fall to an undesirable level. Using reasonable oil change intervals, is essentially “Insurance” on providing the best possible protection for your engine. But, if you use extended oil change intervals, you are effectively playing Russian Roulette with your engine for no good reason. And depending on how severely your engine loads its oil, you could be risking unnecessary wear and/or damage, that may or may not be readily apparent in the early stages.

The primary purpose of this Blog is to provide readers with information they can use to provide their engines with the best possible protection. I am a Mechanical Design Engineer, and I deal with “Margin of Safety” on a daily basis. And using reasonable oil change intervals, provides your engine with a higher “Margin of Safety”. So, that is why I recommend the ideal oil change interval of 5,000 miles on conventional or synthetic oil, for normal daily driver vehicles. It is simply the right thing to do, if you really care about your engine.
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Additive package component quantity depletion, as mileage accumulates on the oil, is normal. The various components are used up as they do their job. And after 5,000 miles of normal daily driving, there was still plenty of additive package remaining in the oils tested above. BUT, that absolutely does NOT mean that you should keep using motor oil until those components are completely exhausted. Here’s why.
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One of the primary reasons your oil gets dirty, is because of combustion by-products getting past the rings from blow-by, and entering the crankcase into your oil. And this has nothing to do with how high tech the engine may be, or how good or how expensive an oil might be. This happens to ALL motor oils in all engines. And oil filters CANNOT filter out this contamination from the oil, no matter how good some filters may be. Because oil filters only filter out particulate matter (see my Tech Article #49 for more details on that). Filthy contaminated dirty oil will flow right through any oil filter. So, continuing to run filthy dirty contaminated oil in your engine, would be like using the same filthy dirty contaminated bath water for months, and months, and months. You could physically do that, but you would never be clean. And even if you used “Very Expensive Premium Imported Drinking Water” in your bath tub, it of course would not change the fact that you were using filthy dirty contaminated bath water. The same thing applies to your engine, and makes no difference how good the motor oil was to begin with.

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In addition to this, small amounts of fuel also get past the rings, particularly during cold start-up and during initial warm-up, when the engine is running extra rich with fuel. This fuel slowly dilutes your oil, again no matter how good the oil is, or how much it costs. So, this is another important reason to use reasonable oil change intervals, rather than extended change intervals.
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And if filthy dirty contaminated diluted oil isn’t a good enough reason to avoid using extended oil change intervals, consider the following. Every motor oil is different, so it would be very difficult to establish a general oil change guideline to use, to get closer to the limit of total component quantity depletion, that would be safe to use for every motor oil, without going too long on certain oils and run the risk of totally depleting those critical additives. And if an oil is subjected to severe/extreme usage, then it makes this issue even worse.
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And to further complicate things, even motor oils that are marketed as extended change interval motor oils, don’t all follow the same plan for the amount of extra additive package quantity put in an oil, which might allow you to even consider going longer. If you look at ” Section 4 – Motor Oil component quantity Lab Test results”, in my Blog, you will see that some name brand motor oils have extra additive package component quantities in their oils marketed as extended change interval oils. But, other name brand oils marketed as extended change interval oils, only have normal change interval additive package component quantities. And the normal change interval oils they sell, actually have below average quantities of additive package components.
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So, the only way you could ever safely consider running motor oils longer than reasonable (if you don’t care enough about your engine to consider the filthy dirty contaminated diluted oil aspect), whether the oils are marketed as extended change interval oils or not, is to take a small sample of the oil being used, and send it into a motor oil Lab for component quantity testing every few thousand miles, after you’ve reached a normal change interval mileage. That way you could make sure you don’t ever run completely out of critical additive package components. But, of course that is simply way too much trouble for most people to ever bother with.
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And if all that isn’t bad enough, remember that motor oil also deteriorates any time it reaches its onset of thermal breakdown point. And that thermal breakdown point varies widely from oil to oil, with many oils reaching that point as low as 250*F. Oil temps are not the same everywhere inside a running engine. Typical main bearing oil temps can be 55*-90*F higher than sump temps. So, oil temp gauges installed in an oil pan can give a false sense of what max oil temps actually are inside an engine. And once any oil, conventional or synthetic, has reached its onset of thermal breakdown point, the lighter oil fractions will begin to vaporize, leaving thicker and heavier oil. This will over time, contribute to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy, increased oil consumption, increased wear and increased emissions. So, with extended oil change intervals, you need to consider that most oils have also been deteriorating from exposure to temps that have exceeded its thermal breakdown point.
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Are we done looking at all the bad things about using extended drain intervals? Not yet. Many multi-viscosity motor oils, particularly conventional oils, use viscosity modifiers/improvers to reduce how much they thin out as their temperature increases. Unfortunately, viscosity modifiers/improvers break down when exposed to heat and mechanical shearing, thus reducing the oil’s viscosity as mileage accumulates. So, oils that use a lot of viscosity improvers, should not be used for extended change intervals. However, true synthetic oils are typically Engineered to meet multi-viscosity requirements without viscosity modifiers/improvers. So, those synthetics do have an advantage over other synthetics and conventional oils in that regard. But, for those synthetics having this one advantage, it does not cancel out all the other problems that every oil has regarding extended change intervals.
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In addition to that, when using extended oil change intervals, wear accumulations and insolubles that are too small to be filtered out, can build up in the oil and become abrasive. Of course the only thing you can do about that, is to change the oil.
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And finally, to add insult to injury, extended oil change intervals have resulted in excessive sludge build-up, which can destroy engines, if it gets bad enough. Some years back, wide spread engine sludge problems cost Toyota millions and millions of dollars, to replace a huge number of engines in Toyota and Lexus vehicles. And their sludge problem was traced to, you guessed it, their recommended unusually long oil change intervals.

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Therefore, there is absolutely NO technical benefit what so ever, to using extended oil change intervals. All of the above, points out that extended oil change intervals make no sense at all, because only bad things are very likely to happen.

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540 RAT - Tech Facts, NOT Myths (wordpress.com)
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 ·
I HOPE this isn't a repeat post: I ALWAYS change oil at 5,000 miles// 8,000 kms, so I just look at my odometer for the current mileage and IF the numbers LEFT of the " , " are divisible by " 5 " in the US, or by " 8 " in Canada, then it's time to change the oil and filter!

AND I ONLY use Mobil1 15w-50

(y)(y)

:cool:
you are really a strong believer of Mobil 1. it is not even a synthetic oil. i am recently inclined to use Shell ultra advanced. it is fully synthetic and not made of crude oil
 

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..."ADVANCED FULL SYNTHETIC MOTOR OIL" is on the front of my 5L container of M1 15w-50.

(y)(y)

:cool:
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
fasteddiecompem (your name is the most complicated :) ). does mobil pays you for advertising their oil? I am just kidding. but it is not even a synthetic oil. any oil will work, which does not prove anything. I started to use Shell advanced Ultra, because it is made from natural gas, and not crude oil. Maybe it is not as good as they say, but I will give it a try.
 

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fasteddiecompem (your name is the most complicated :) ). does mobil pays you for advertising their oil? I am just kidding. but it is not even a synthetic oil. any oil will work, which does not prove anything. I started to use Shell advanced Ultra, because it is made from natural gas, and not crude oil. Maybe it is not as good as they say, but I will give it a try.
Shell Advance 4T Ultra 15W-50 ?

Shell Advance 4-stroke motorcycle oils | Shell Global
 

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The word Synthetic gets hung on a lot of oils, that are only part synthetic. It's not easy to get through all the hype on oils. I believe BMW currently specs that 15-50 oil for their older airheads & K bikes and I'm pretty sure it is a part synthetic. Any name brand oils are pretty good today.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 ·
yes, it is difficult for us mere mortals to know what they really put into their oils. additionally, there are all kinds of types of synthetic oils, assuming that they are really synthetic. i hurts my head when I try to get to the bottom of it. both BMW and Ducati use Shell, but they call it BMW or Ducati oil. I have the small g310gs, and the company fills it with BMW Advance, which is actually semi-synthetic. Advance Ultra is supposed to be fully synthetic, which BWM uses for their bigger bikes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
yes, but this refers to viscosity. i use 10W40 in colder climate. in India generally, the fill the bikes with 15W50
 

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If you stay in one location like Arizona it likely makes sense to vary the viscosity, but if you are just travelling through on the way to other parts of the country, then you are likely better to just stay with the main recommended viscosity. I could leave Arizona in the morning where it is 110 F and then in the afternoon be on the California coast where it is 80 F, or Montana where it is 70 F The most critical area on an engine is cold start up. That's when you need the lower viscosity. There are sites like Bob the Oil Guy, and others, that have lots of info on this topic.
When you think that an engine is operating around the boiling point of water 212 F or so, all the time, an air temp change from say 70-110 F will have minimal affect on a properly tuned and good running engine. The change in temps bothers us much more than it bothers the engine.
 

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I go by the book unless something requires me to get in the engine between changes. Had a stator go this summer and then a leak after the repair so I've done 3 changes this summer.

I'll have to do some digging but I've read some articles saying changing your oil to frequently can actually be bad for your engine. I cringe when I see bikes for sale that say "oil changed every 500-1000 miles"

Again, I have to find the article or video and it's been awhile but if I remember correctly it said something about oil preforming better after being "broken in".

Kawi says 12k, I try to shoot for 10-12k. If I do a lot of riding in the rain or dirt I shorten that a little.

I just added air filter pods to my intake so I'm curious to see if the oil stays cleaner for longer this go around.
 

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I go by the book unless something requires me to get in the engine between changes. Had a stator go this summer and then a leak after the repair so I've done 3 changes this summer.

I'll have to do some digging but I've read some articles saying changing your oil to frequently can actually be bad for your engine. I cringe when I see bikes for sale that say "oil changed every 500-1000 miles"

Again, I have to find the article or video and it's been awhile but if I remember correctly it said something about oil preforming better after being "broken in".

Kawi says 12k, I try to shoot for 10-12k. If I do a lot of riding in the rain or dirt I shorten that a little.

I just added air filter pods to my intake so I'm curious to see if the oil stays cleaner for longer this go around.
i'm at 2500-3000, rarely longer unless on a trip, then it might go 5000. if the bike is on the lift for inspection, maintenance, or some other work, i'll go ahead and change the oil. oil/filter are cheap, why stretch it?

can't help you on the pod filters/oil condition question since i haven't run without angled pod filters for over 10 years.
 
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