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Discussion Starter · #61 · (Edited)
I realize this is a bit off topic for this thread but wanted to ask you guys a couple things.

1. Does using ethanol free gas make the bike more responsive? I got into an accident the other day because I gave it too much throttle and let the clutch out too fast. Don't usually run into issues with that, but it does seem a bit more touchy with the new plugs, and ethanol free gas? Or I could be imagining it.

2. Would you mind terribly looking at these pictures and tell me if this looks like the frame warped to you? The aforementioned accident was an accidental wheelie, and besides getting thrown around a bit, the bike landed pretty hard on its side and I think the engine guards (crash cage) actually caused the frame to bend with how it was designed. I really hope I'm mistaken because I love this bike :c

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If you want more pictures, I'll go out and grab more when its light out. Going to probably pull the cage off as well. Hoping only the plastics need replacing and not the whole bike.

On a side note - My bike was purring with the upgraded spark plugs and ethanol-free gas. It did feel like it was lasting longer but the engine was much warmer too. So I think the plugs may be too hot for use with ethanol free. I think someone mentioned getting cooler plugs with ethanol free.

Anyway thank you for all the help yet again. I'll post an update once I know if my bike is going to survive this mishap. Here's hoping!
 

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I realize this is a bit off topic etc etc.
It's pretty much impossible to tell if your frame is bent
by looking at photos especially when everything is assembled.

Even if the frame was bare and the lens of the camera
was exactly centered inline with the length of the frame
it could still be impossible to determine if the frame was bent
a couple of millimetres... of course if it was bent like a pretzel you'd see it.

Also, as a Photographer that's sold hundreds of photos I can say
that nearly all camera lenses produce some distortion and "bend'
straight lines... so determining the accuracy of a frame by photographs
is out of the question.

To really know how true a motorcycle frame is you need to determine
that the axis of the swing arm is perpendicular to the steering bearings
in the horizontal plane and the vertical plane... and that's just the frame.

Trueness of the forks and swing arm play a roll as well, then there's how accurately
the axles are located in the forks and swing arm and then there's
how accurately the wheels are located on the axles... possibly youve
noticed the spacers that go on the axles between the hub and the fork
and the hub and the swing arm. ie both wheels can be pointing
straight ahead but either could be tracking left or right of the steering axis...
a common trait of old shaft drive BMWs.

There's a "no tool method" that you could use as an indicator (and it's not fool proof)
of whether your frame is out of alignment; and that is, select a road that is flat and smooth
ride at about 35mph/60kmh and gradually let go of the handlebars... if the bike tracks
straight and true, riding "no hands", chances are, your frame is ok.
If you choose to do the test I have described, it is AT YOUR OWN RISK.

You are aware of course, that if your back axle (that you use to adjust chain tension)
is poorly aligned it will confound the test I've described???

Having said all that, the Versys 650 is a pretty sturdy unit imho,
so I'd bet a dollar that your mishap has not "bent" the frame...
Your bike has crash bars too, so that just reinforces my belief.

As for your spark plugs, vis a vis petrol/ethanol mixtures, I'm not 100% sure
about it, but I'd again bet a dollar that the OEM spec spark plugs are fine.

Doing an accidental wheelie (that you lost control of LOL... excuse me laughing
but it is funny... especially as it seems your hurt is more your pride than your life or limb)
is more about the "sudden" action of the Versys 650 clutch and operator error,
than type of fuel or spark plugs! (my V650 clutch is far more sudden
than the very progressive action of the clutch of my ZX12R... Ironically I'd
be pleased if the action of the 12s clutch was "sudden" like my Versys, as it makes for better launches...
just so long as you don't fvck up like you did.

No doubt you'll be treating your clutch lever
with a bit more respect in the future. (y)

Warm wishes,

Alan.
 

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Agreed: the only true way to check a frame is with the rest of the bike stripped off it. ;).
The frame must be mounted on a jig to check measurements and angles accurately.

Ride the bugger; you'll feel any handling changes. But as JP wrote, it's highly doubtful you bent the frame or forks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #64 ·
@Jungle Phantom @Smiley

Thank you both.

Yeah I have a bit of hurt pride. It was SUPER embarrassing lol. Despite injuries, I was pretty mad at myself for allowing it to happen. Lesson absolutely learned.

I did have a friend ride it home and he said it handled completely fine. He didn't feel anything out of sorts. It rode straight, and without any weird tracking. He had a couple miles to play with it before it got to my place.

The only thing he noted was when he braked hard, it sounded like something plastic rubbed in the front. And he thinks it's the fender being pushed against the wheel by the crash cage rather than anything mechanical being broken.

Again, thanks. That's reassuring because I'd been devastated if I lost this bike.
 

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My '09 V650 was "written-off" after I low-sided on the Dempster Hwy about 60 miles S of Inuvik, NWT.

The 'thing' that told me it was 'tweaked' was the wear on the rear brake-disc. This pic taken as soon as I got home from Inuvik - a four day ride....

P6262410 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr
 

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My '09 V650 was "written-off" after I low-sided on the Dempster Hwy about 60 miles S of Inuvik, NWT.

The 'thing' that told me it was 'tweaked' was the wear on the rear brake-disc. This pic taken as soon as I got home from Inuvik - a four day ride....

P6262410 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr
Did you determine exactly where the tweak was Eddie?
 

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NOPE. The dealer concurred that the frame was tweaked, then told the insurance guy, and I ordered the replacement '15 V650 in GREEN!
 

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@Jungle Phantom @Smiley

Thank you both.

Yeah I have a bit of hurt pride. It was SUPER embarrassing lol. Despite injuries, I was pretty mad at myself for allowing it to happen. Lesson absolutely learned.

I did have a friend ride it home and he said it handled completely fine. He didn't feel anything out of sorts. It rode straight, and without any weird tracking. He had a couple miles to play with it before it got to my place.

The only thing he noted was when he braked hard, it sounded like something plastic rubbed in the front. And he thinks it's the fender being pushed against the wheel by the crash cage rather than anything mechanical being broken.

Again, thanks. That's reassuring because I'd been devastated if I lost this bike.
I've lost count of how many embarrassing moments I've had on (and "off") two wheels. lol o_O
 

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Discussion Starter · #70 ·
I've lost count of how many embarrassing moments I've had on (and "off") two wheels. lol o_O
I've dropped this bike numerous times. It's a bit tall for me, but it just feels amazing to ride and I've stubbornly kept at it forcing myself back on it despite the falls, for over two years. Falls are less frequent thank goodness. And I've come to really love this thing. It's such a good bike. Kawasaki bikes really are very solid, reliable machines.
 

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Lunar, have you considered lowering it? For me it feels so much nicer. It isn't top heavy any more, and I feel totally confident when stopped that my feet are firmly on the ground. The handling doesn't change. The only loss is ground clearance if you go off road.
 

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My '09 V650 was "written-off" after I low-sided on the Dempster Hwy about 60 miles S of Inuvik, NWT.

The 'thing' that told me it was 'tweaked' was the wear on the rear brake-disc. This pic taken as soon as I got home from Inuvik - a four day ride....

P6262410 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr
Could a component of the cause of your lowside be attributed to the amount of weight
you seem to have (in the photo) behind the rear axle Sir?
 

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Discussion Starter · #73 ·
Lunar, have you considered lowering it? For me it feels so much nicer. It isn't top heavy any more, and I feel totally confident when stopped that my feet are firmly on the ground. The handling doesn't change. The only loss is ground clearance if you go off road.
Nah because I feel like if it were lowered, it'd just become a crutch and I'd have a harder time if I ever got a bigger bike. I'd rather stick with the stock height. It does have a low seat on it though which has been a huge help. But last time I fell, the road was at a steep pitch and I couldn't get my right foot down. Bike tipped to the left and sent me over. My biggest issue isn't the height since I'm perfectly comfortable getting my bum off the seat. It's getting my right foot down instead of my left when the road is slanted like that.

I had fallen a few times trying to get my right foot down and its developed anxiety related to it. It's something I need to get over.
 

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Nah because I feel like if it were lowered, it'd just become a crutch and I'd have a harder time if I ever got a bigger bike. I'd rather stick with the stock height. It does have a low seat on it though which has been a huge help. But last time I fell, the road was at a steep pitch and I couldn't get my right foot down. Bike tipped to the left and sent me over. My biggest issue isn't the height since I'm perfectly comfortable getting my bum off the seat. It's getting my right foot down instead of my left when the road is slanted like that.

I had fallen a few times trying to get my right foot down and its developed anxiety related to it. It's something I need to get over.
Maybe boots with Cuban heels... A pair of
Brown Durango boot Boot Leather Human leg

Dan Posts
 

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Could a component of the cause of your lowside be attributed to the amount of weight
you seem to have (in the photo) behind the rear axle Sir?
Absolutely NOT!

The Dempster is a 'dirt over perma-frost' road, probably about 60 feet wide. As you might imagine, the dirt gets 'packed-down' in the middle, but progressively less as you move to the sides, so you do NOT want to ride on the soft-sides at any speed IF you can help it!

P6202124 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

P6202131 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

P6202153 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

When dry (and THAT is when you want to be on it), it can get quite dusty, but that dust allows you to see traffic coming from MILES away!

P6212171 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

P6212169 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

Also - once near the "tree-line", the trees are quite short, so you mostly shouldn't get surprised by an unseen truck.

I was about 60 miles S of Inuvik traveling at 50 to 60 mph heading back S, the road ahead turning to the left in around 100 yards, NO DUST showing above the short trees

P6212185 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

and riding near the road's center (on the HARD surface) when a semi pulling a trailer came around that corner IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD (as was I), his dust-cloud hanging close to the surface. I moved right, as hard on the brakes as I could, then was enveloped by the dust-cloud which hung low behind his trailer just as I entered the left-turning portion.

NOW I had no visibility at all, w/ NO idea how far I was from the REALLY SOFT right-side of the road, OR if anyone was following the semi, hidden in his cloud of dust, so I started moving left and felt the softness pulling me further right. The thought went thru my mind that IF I went off the road right and was injured that nobody would see me or know that I was there, hidden by those low 'shrubs'. The dust was clearing but I saw that I was already riding ON the 'downslope' to the ditch (probably around 25 mph), and the Versys was still descending even tho' I was trying to correct left.

I felt that crashing was inevitable, but that I MIGHT be able to crash where I was visible from the road, so I used MORE rear-brakes, bringing the GREEN HORNET into a low-side, and DOWN onto the crest of the shoulder.

P6212188 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

I wasn't hurt, but the left saddle-bag 'parted ways'. A couple of pickups stopped, helped me get the bike onto the shoulder.

P6212189 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

I strapped the damaged bag onto my rack, then re-started S to go to the campsite near Eagle Plains and try "fixing" it.

P6222210 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

THAT trip was the first time I had carried a hammer (to sink Ardox nails as tent tie-downs in the rocky campground at the Dawson City campground), so I got things back to "normal" (???) fairly quickly.

P6212198 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

P6212199 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr
 

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Absolutely NOT!

The Dempster is a 'dirt over perma-frost' road, probably about 60 feet wide. As you might imagine, the dirt gets 'packed-down' in the middle, but progressively less as you move to the sides, so you do NOT want to ride on the soft-sides at any speed IF you can help it!

P6202124 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

P6202131 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

P6202153 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

When dry (and THAT is when you want to be on it), it can get quite dusty, but that dust allows you to see traffic coming from MILES away!

P6212171 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

P6212169 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

Also - once near the "tree-line", the trees are quite short, so you mostly shouldn't get surprised by an unseen truck.

I was about 60 miles S of Inuvik traveling at 50 to 60 mph heading back S, the road ahead turning to the left in around 100 yards, NO DUST showing above the short trees

P6212185 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

and riding near the road's center (on the HARD surface) when a semi pulling a trailer came around that corner IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROAD (as was I), his dust-cloud hanging close to the surface. I moved right, as hard on the brakes as I could, then was enveloped by the dust-cloud which hung low behind his trailer just as I entered the left-turning portion.

NOW I had no visibility at all, w/ NO idea how far I was from the REALLY SOFT right-side of the road, OR if anyone was following the semi, hidden in his cloud of dust, so I started moving left and felt the softness pulling me further right. The thought went thru my mind that IF I went off the road right and was injured that nobody would see me or know that I was there, hidden by those low 'shrubs'. The dust was clearing but I saw that I was already riding ON the 'downslope' to the ditch (probably around 25 mph), and the Versys was still descending even tho' I was trying to correct left.

I felt that crashing was inevitable, but that I MIGHT be able to crash where I was visible from the road, so I used MORE rear-brakes, bringing the GREEN HORNET into a low-side, and DOWN onto the crest of the shoulder.

P6212188 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

I wasn't hurt, but the left saddle-bag 'parted ways'. A couple of pickups stopped, helped me get the bike onto the shoulder.

P6212189 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

I strapped the damaged bag onto my rack, then re-started S to go to the campsite near Eagle Plains and try "fixing" it.

P6222210 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

THAT trip was the first time I had carried a hammer (to sink Ardox nails as tent tie-downs in the rocky campground at the Dawson City campground), so I got things back to "normal" (???) fairly quickly.

P6212198 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

P6212199 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr
Wow... great "post mortem" Eddie... and the photos you had presence of mind to shoot
tell more than 10,000 words too. Thanks for posting, I'm captivated by your response.

Obviously there were multiple components to your "prang";
mostly a truck being a "road hog"...

the camber of the road working against you in a left turn (It's the other way down here)...

a very loose surface...

little to zero visibility...

Weight behind the rear axle was, as you say, "Absolutely NOT"
the primary, secondary or even tertiary cause of that crash.

You seem to be an intrepid man Eddie.


Instead of a hammer, I use the back of this to set tent tie downs Eddie...
Glasses Sleeve Table Gesture Wood

It impresses the ladies no end when I shave with it, and it's not bad at making fire wood too :)
 

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For ultimate cleaning as well as protection, while substantially improving fuel efficiency, why not try the highly affordable TC-W3 2-stroke marine engine oil solution, mixed 640:1 (1oz TC-W3 per 5 US gallons gasoline)... It's also highly effective at preventing fuel needle from sticking in the seat of carburated outboard motors.

10ml TC-W3 per 6.4 liters of fuel (gasoline)

Been testing Oil (ls1.com)

Been testing Oil

You guys know I test constantly and oil/tribology is my thing so here goes. I know the gasoline today is shit. Very dry and poor quality. Throw in ethanol and you got crap/corrosive gasoline. I use Fuel Power/Lucas UCL with great success in my cars and other peoples cars. At the first of the year some of us "lubrication physcho's" (mainly from the aircraft industry) discussed the shit quality of gasoline and the absolute advantages of running a fuel additive with lubrication capabilities and I think the testing is now complete and the results are very good. Biggest problem we had was the proper amount but we are now satisfied this works very well and you will have a smoother running engine/more power/better MPG....so here it is.....
What we are trying to accomplish ( The deliverables)
We need to lubricate the fuel pump/seals/injectors.
We need to clean the fuel system and scavenge water that ethanol attracts.
We need a film of protection in our fuel system to stop corrosion.
We need a cleaner for our spark plugs/valves/combustion chambers.
We need to clean the ring packs
We need to leave a film on the cylinder walls to eliminate cold start metal wear.
This was my groups short list of deliverables. Of course we knew if we accomplished this list the car should A) Run Smoother B) Run more efficiently C) Parts will last longer i.e. fuel pumps/injectors etc. D) We should see more RWHP and MPG
We did it. For pennies.
2 Stroke oil. Not just any two stroke oil But we needed the detergents etc. and found the perfect oil/add packs/viscosity in a marine 2 stroke oil you can get for under $10 bucks a gallon anywhere. We used Pennzoil Marine 2 stroke for our testing.
--------------------------
Use 1oz of the two stroke oil per 5 gallons of gas ( 1oz-5 US gallons/ 2ozs - 10 US gallons etc. and that is the perfect ratio. Too much and it will make your engine run worse....too little and it wont do anything.....use the proper amount.....get a little bottle and keep it in your car.....We have seen a maximum of 5% better MPG down to a minimum of 2% better MPG. All of our test mules reported much smoother idles and cruising. No smoking or ill effects. No residue on plugs or pistons....actually the opposite....we saw "cleaning".....I am now comfortable recommending this for all. I also now run this mixture in my GTO/Mercedes/Silverado and G6 with all having smoother running motors and all gaining MPG. Give it a try and let me know your experience. Follow the mixture ratio to the letter. 1 oz per 5 US gallons of gas.
On my second tank. 5 oz into my 21 liter tank. If I use a RELAXED wrist and stay around 80 KM/HR I get 30 km per liter, up by almost 5 KM . I will post on my second tank. One thing I am looking at is using Costco premium, as it is $0.10 more per liter and is said to be ethanol free.
 

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...Obviously there were multiple components to your "prang"; mostly a truck being a "road hog"... the camber of the road working against you in a left turn (It's the other way down here)... a very loose surface... little to zero visibility....
I would put the reasons as:
1. lack of visibility in an INSTANT, so not prepared for it (I WAS looking over the trees to my left IN CASE, but saw NO cloud of dust);
2. I don't figure the trucker for a "road hog" - he was just 'truckin-down-the-road' w/ LOTS of room on his left, MY right (which went INVISIBLE to me as he went past!), w/ a 90 degree 'bend' that TOO was invisible to me, until I was already going into the ditch; and
3. NOT being able to see the road from the instant he went past, to where the slope of the ditch was 'pulling me down', already past the point that I could have "saved it".

I wasn't even bruised in this 'prang'. My left saddle-bag protected my left leg/foot UNTIL it was ripped off just as the bike and I stopped, so I was extremely LUCKY! AND I rode the GREEN HORNET back to Kelowna, BC (about 3,700 kms [2,300 miles]) over four days of riding. I mentioned earlier how I was able to determine the frame had been "tweaked" by 'wear' marks on the rear brake-disc. Here's a BETTER pic to illustrate THAT.

P6272417 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

P6272416 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

BTW - I've ridden to Alaska SIX times. Once on a 2003 Suzuki Bandit 1200S, twice on an '04 KLR650, and twice on a V650 - this '09 and its replacement '15 V650LT.
 

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I would put the reasons as:
1. lack of visibility in an INSTANT, so not prepared for it (I WAS looking over the trees to my left IN CASE, but saw NO cloud of dust);
2. I don't figure the trucker for a "road hog" - he was just 'truckin-down-the-road' w/ LOTS of room on his left, MY right (which went INVISIBLE to me as he went past!), w/ a 90 degree 'bend' that TOO was invisible to me, until I was already going into the ditch; and
3. NOT being able to see the road from the instant he went past, to where the slope of the ditch was 'pulling me down', already past the point that I could have "saved it".

I wasn't even bruised in this 'prang'. My left saddle-bag protected my left leg/foot UNTIL it was ripped off just as the bike and I stopped, so I was extremely LUCKY! AND I rode the GREEN HORNET back to Kelowna, BC (about 3,700 kms [2,300 miles]) over four days of riding. I mentioned earlier how I was able to determine the frame had been "tweaked" by 'wear' marks on the rear brake-disc. Here's a BETTER pic to illustrate THAT.

P6272417 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

P6272416 by Ed Copeman, on Flickr

BTW - I've ridden to Alaska SIX times. Once on a 2003 Suzuki Bandit 1200S, twice on an '04 KLR650, and twice on a V650 - this '09 and its replacement '15 V650LT.
That's all cool, but I believe the way the brake pad contacted the disc
is not a symptom of a bent frame.

That abnormal contact between the brake pad and disc would be caused
by components between the swing arm and the disc.
The first suspects are the cast bracket the axle goes through... that the
caliper bolts onto. Or the pins that the caliper slides left and right on...
that help equalize the pressure/force of the inner and outer pads
on each side of the disc.
Also Eddie possibly you will notice, the next time you have the rear axle out
of your bike, that the hole in the caliper mounting bracket that the axle goes
through is of course a larger diameter than the axle... when assembled
or (or wheel/axle assembly gets an almighty impact in a prang) it may not
be perfectly perpendicular to the axle... or maybe a little stone got
jammed between the caliper and brake pad.
There's a squillion things that could cause what your photo depicts,
but a bent frame is not one of them imho.

Speaking of a "squillion", I said to a blond lady; "I've had sex with a Brazilian",
she replied "OMG! how many is a brazillion?" ... I digress.

In short mate, the contact pattern of the disc/pad only indicates a disc to pad alignment issue,
The pad and rear disc are isolated the by the swing arm from the frame...
the frame is not an issue at all... vis a vis the how the pad contacts the disc.

That of course does not mean that your frame was not bent in the prang
it just means that there was a pad disc alignment issue... and the bloke at the bike shop
was mistaken... condition normal lol.
 

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On my second tank. 5 oz into my 21 liter tank. If I use a RELAXED wrist and stay around 80 KM/HR I get 30 km per liter, up by almost 5 KM . I will post on my second tank. One thing I am looking at is using Costco premium, as it is $0.10 more per liter and is said to be ethanol free.
The perfect mixture is "Follow the mixture ratio to the letter. 1 oz per 5 US gallons of gas."

That is 1 oz per 22.7304 liters (0.924 oz for 21 liters)... As you refill a nearly empty tank by adding 15 liters of gasoline, you'll need 2/3 oz of TC-W3 to maintain the proper mixture.
 
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