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"Tomla, you mentioned that you raised your fork legs in the 3x clamps. I've heard that improves turn in handling. Could you elaborate a bit on what drove your decision to raise the legs up?"

In general, raising the rear corrects for running wide in the 2nd half of the turn. lowering the front makes initial turn-in easier.

whangler, don't waste your time just doing an oil change if you're going to do the revalve anyway. It's not that much more work and provides 100x the improvement.
 

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Just done my front fork shim-stack

The OEM shim-stack setup in my V was as follows

Air Gap - Right / Left fork = 75mm / 65mm

Kawasaki recommended fork oil is SHOWA SS-8, which has a [email protected]° of 36.8
The stock Shim Stack had the following compression shims fitted in this order:

17mm x 0.12mm
17mm x 0.12mm
17mm x 0.12mm
17mm x 0.12mm
09mm x 0.15mm - pivoting shim.
11mm x 0.40mm - stock clamping washer.
11mm x 0.40mm - stock clamping washer.
11mm x 0.40mm - stock clamping washer.


My modified Setup is as now:

Air Gap - Right / Left fork = 120mm / 110mm.
Fork oil that has a [email protected]° in the range of 28 to 30.
E.g. a 30/70 mix of Motul light and Motul medium will make fork oil with a [email protected]° of 29
PS - I weigh no more than 110 kg / 240 lbs in all my motorcycle gear.
The Shim-stack was reassembled in the following order

17mm x 0.12mm - unmodified shim.
09mm x 0.15mm - moved here, to let the top/initial shim flex more.
16mm x 0.12mm - made from stock shim ground down.
15mm x 0.12mm - made from stock shim ground down.
14mm x 0.12mm - made from stock shim ground down.
11mm x 0.40mm - stock clamping washer.
11mm x 0.40mm - stock clamping washer.
11mm x 0.40mm - stock clamping washer.

To modify the standard 17mm shims, I mounted them individually on an Allen head bolt, put it in a drill chuck and mounted the drill in the jaws of a workmate.
Set the speed to slow(ish) and leant a medium-fine grade file gently on the edge of each shim until was the required diameter.

The 3 holes in the valve that let oil through onto the shim-stack also were also slightly enlarged with a dremel so that they +25% / and valve unit polished. PS - Make sure that you do not enlarge the hole too much / get rid of any of the sealing face as you will then have an unintended bypass oil way and the shim-stack will not work / seal properly.


Before on the STD preload and rebound dampening setting, when going over sharp ridges, bumps and small potholes, especially a combination of these in quick succession at any speed, the STD fork shim-stack setup would feel very hash, as the compression stack was hydraulically locking up.
It also felt to me that this OEM setup caused the front tyre carcass to flex more than it should and make the tyre bounce up and down, causing you to loose grip momentarily on the road surface making me back off in speed. No adjustment of the rebound dampening and the preload would mask / get rid of this at all.


Results

Now, with the modified shim-stack the fork preload and rebound dampening still on the STD settings, (I may play around with these but so far I have not needed to adjust them yet), the harshness is all gone.

Sharp ridges, bumps and small potholes, especially a combination of these in quick succession are now not a worry and the front wheel now feels glued to the road / has a great feedback.

So much so, I was actively looking for previously known bad roads / bends over the w/e, to see if I could upset / induce harshness / hydraulically locking.

However, this setup now works so well I found that I was travelling through corners what seemed to be to me of up to 10 to +15 mph faster than before, without any problems – I was now enjoying the ride everywhere.

Is this a mod that I would recommend every Mk1 & 2 Versys owner should consider doing??

HELL YES.

Just do it.

Richard :smile2:
 

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Interesting that you doubled the air gap in the forks. Did you go with a stiffer spring or anything? An increase in the air gap will generally soften the compression as you approach bottom of the stroke but at the expense of bottoming resistance. I am not sure its an issue with the V forks, just curious as at 240 lbs on stock springs I could imagine them bottoming if worked hard. I really need to do this as well - the stock for action sucks.
 

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"Tomla, you mentioned that you raised your fork legs in the 3x clamps. I've heard that improves turn in handling. Could you elaborate a bit on what drove your decision to raise the legs up?"

In general, raising the rear corrects for running wide in the 2nd half of the turn. lowering the front makes initial turn-in easier.

whangler, don't waste your time just doing an oil change if you're going to do the revalve anyway. It's not that much more work and provides 100x the improvement.
I would imagine lowering the front does the exact same thing as raising the rear. That is it changes the fork angle which in turn reduces trail making for quicker/lighter steering but less stability/self correcting in steering. More weight on the front will either reduce understeer or increase oversteer. Understeer is when the front slides or gives out before the rear, oversteer is the reverse. Compared to say a WeeStrom I find the front on the Versys feels a bit light and numb in turns. Not sure if what to do to correct this.

 

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I understand that the rate changes as the spring compresses. Without knowing what the rate is you are left with a seat-of-the-pants experiment.

I can tell you for a fact that suspension fluid comparisons using 5,10,15wt designations is not accurate between brands. Given a single brand it will give you an idea of viscosity compared to other weights of that brand. ie. Belray 5wt is thinner than Belray 10wt. But is is not very useful when different brands are compared.

Stability as temperature changes is much more useful. Here is an example Chart.

The Versys Fork has a non-serviceable rebound circuit. This means that the only way to effect rebound damping is to change the weight of the oil.

I use Motorex which is who makes Racetech Oil. All of my shim stacks are based on Motorex for consistency. I found that 10wt Motorex lacked the necessary viscosity to adequately control rebound. I think 15wt would be what you would want to use if you were using Motorex.

In your case I would use the spring and oil they gave you. I would pick generic 15wt over generic 10wt. I would also start with the stock oil levels since my own experience shows that they work well for controlling dive.
I know this is an old post but wanted to check to be specific. 10wt Motorex at 40 cSt is 52.50 with 15 wt at 69.8 cSt. Motorex appears to be quite a bit higher viscosity at fork operating temperatures vs most other fluids (SS8 being 36.4 at 40). I was looking at targeting mixing up to get around a 40 cSt to help with the rebound circuit a bit. I am re-valving the compression valve to similar specs as mentioned here (removal of the big stack of four 17/.15 and shims for more deflection on HS hits).
 

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As an update. I ended up using

17x.15
16x.15
15x.15
14x.15
10x.2 (2)
11x.3 (4)

used fork oil blended to 40 cSt at 40C
stock air gaps (65mm/75mm l/r) * this may get increased for less harshness at bottom of the stroke
rebound 1.5 turns out
sag 20mm bike / 45mm bike+rider
200 lbs without gear

I didn't find anywhere where it said the torque spec on the compression valve bolt. I did 45 inch lbs with red loctite as I found that mentioned for another set of Showa forks while researching? Racetech does like 30 inch lbs for their gold valves I think.
 

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I know this is an old post but wanted to check to be specific. 10wt Motorex at 40 cSt is 52.50 with 15 wt at 69.8 cSt. Motorex appears to be quite a bit higher viscosity at fork operating temperatures vs most other fluids (SS8 being 36.4 at 40). I was looking at targeting mixing up to get around a 40 cSt to help with the rebound circuit a bit. I am re-valving the compression valve to similar specs as mentioned here (removal of the big stack of four 17/.15 and shims for more deflection on HS hits).
The rebound adjustment controls rebound. Using a heavier oil will increase compression damping which is not adjustable although an increase to 40 from 36 will in all likelihood be too minor to be detectable.
 

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OK so that is not 100% accurate. Oil viscosity will affect both compression and rebound. And since the rebound adjustment is essentially moving a needle valve to allow more or less fluid to pass through, oil viscosity actually alters the "range of adjustment" the needle valve is capable of. Therefore if you are out of adjustment range for adding more damping the the rebound stroke (slowing down the movement), going to a more viscous fluid will move the range of the adjustment towards "more damping" end.

Now the way the fork setup to begin with, on the compression stroke the shim stack cannot deflect quickly or effectively enough on high speed movements and suffers hydraulic lock. Adding a more viscous fluid will only cause that to be more pronounced during high fork velocities. So at the same time you need to alter the shim stack to reduce provide better compliance when you increase the viscosity or the fork will become even more harsh.

This is what I did.
 

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Also, you are correct that a 4 cSt is a minor viscosity change in the broad scheme of things vs stock SS8 but for my personal bike:

1. the forks didn't have SS8 in them anymore (looked like an ATF of some kind)
2. old fluid degrades and shears down over time lowering the effective viscosity
3. it was VERY detectable from the first movement of the forks

your results may vary.
 

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Got my first long ride in after changing up the shims on my '08. I've had the R1 shock on for a couple years... now the front feels as good as the back *grin I'm glad this thread recently came to the top as I would not have thought of changing out the shims... well worth the little bit of time and money invested (for oil and extra shims).

I ended up using:

17 x.15 (stock)
16 x.1
16 x.1
15 x.15
14 x.15
10 x.1 (2)
9 x.15 (stock)
11 x.4 (3) (stock)

I had some Bel-Ray 15W and some Torco RFF 15W.. I was looking for around 40 cSt at 40C. The Bel-Ray was somewhere around 50 and the torco was in the low 30's, so I mixed it half-n-half and filled the right leg to 75 mm from the top. I left the left leg alone since I recently filled it with Valvoline ATF to stock height.
 

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Some help needed

Asphalt here is notorious for potholes on which I am facing sharp jerks, as if the forks are rods. My preload is nearly maxed out otherwise it just doesn't ride well enough. Low speed offroad and bad roads are smooth but anything above 50 kmph can't cope with sudden jerks from potholes.

One main difference is that I have a ninja 650 with the versys forks and rear shock retrofitted. The forks are from a 2009 Versys.

I am thinking of the revalve. However I haven't yet understood how the shim stacks work. I weigh around 220 lbs and would like to know what sort of shim stack should I go for. Also belray fork oil isn't available here. All I can locate is either Motul or Yamalube fork oil.

Also what all tools will I need to take the forks apart ? I might have to fabricate the tools since fork spring compressor isnt readily available here.
 

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I'm 235lbs, so the shim stack I posted above should work for you as well... you'll have to find the oil chart to find a match for CSt values for a brand you can obtain (google: fork oil CSt chart). I don't have time to search the threads, but there are some instructions for DIY tools here somewhere. I'm sure someone can post a link... you can build the PVC spring compressor and cut an aluminum plate for the spring holder.
 
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I'm 235lbs, so the shim stack I posted above should work for you as well... you'll have to find the oil chart to find a match for CSt values for a brand you can obtain (google: fork oil CSt chart). I don't have time to search the threads, but there are some instructions for DIY tools here somewhere. I'm sure someone can post a link... you can build the PVC spring compressor and cut an aluminum plate for the spring holder.


http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...front-changing-fork-oil-gen-1-2-probably.html

http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/74-how-forum/133770-shock-front-spring-compressor-diy.html

Every so often I come across a thread that has a ton of information, someone resurrected it and more excellent information is added, after many years of being on this forum, those informative threads stand out, since the How To Forum was started for these threads, expect to see a stuck thread, here and there, soon to be a How To Thread, with the copied posts, I try and limit the conversation and copy only relevant information, leaving a link to the original thread for further discussion, this way you don't need to scroll through pages of I did that to find the answers.
 

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Sweet! I like that second one with the bar clamp... never seen that one before. I have been having my daughter help me when I work on mine as you need at least 3 hands with the manual tools, the bar clamp setup would fix that issue. :)
 
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Hello all !

I just received shims. But...

I have a problem, I disassembled complete fork, but I can not disassemble "cylinder unit". How to pull cartridge out of cartridge rod? In other words, I do not know how to pull hollow rod (the one which has rebound adjust rod through it) out of assembly.

Edit: It seems I have to pull compression cartridge at the bottom of cartridge rod, but don't know how, there is no screw..


Please help
 

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Hello all !

I just received shims. But...

I have a problem, I disassembled complete fork, but I can not disassemble "cylinder unit". How to pull cartridge out of cartridge rod? In other words, I do not know how to pull hollow rod (the one which has rebound adjust rod through it) out of assembly.

I'm not 100% sure but believe that, for your 2007 forks, the rebound valve cannot be pulled out without "modifying" a stopper at the top of the cartridge.


For Gen 3 forks, it is easy. Push out the compression valve at the bottom and then push out the rebound valve through the bottom of the same cartridge.


Edit: It seems I have to pull compression cartridge at the bottom of cartridge rod, but don't know how, there is no screw..Please help
Push the compression valve up a bit into the bottom of the cartridge. You will then see a cir-clip inside the cartridge. Remove the cir-clip and then push out the compression valve through the bottom.


HTH
 
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I'm not 100% sure but believe that, for your 2007 forks, the rebound valve cannot be pulled out without "modifying" a stopper at the top of the cartridge.


For Gen 3 forks, it is easy. Push out the compression valve at the bottom and then push out the rebound valve through the bottom of the same cartridge.


Push the compression valve up a bit into the bottom of the cartridge. You will then see a cir-clip inside the cartridge. Remove the cir-clip and then push out the compression valve through the bottom.


HTH
Yes, I don't need to pull rebound valve at all. (just mistake). Is gen 3 right fork leg compatible to gen 1 versys "fork leg holder", fender and wheel?

Is this "cir-clip" accessible through cartridge tube side holes? I do not see any other option... A the bottom side where hex screw goes in there is nothing

Edit again:

In this image
from versys.co.uk forum, I see that ring as at the bottom . It seems that valve has to be pushed inside for at least 5 mm... and then ring is accessible at the bottom..

Also ring position groove can be seen from this image... I' ll try today :) my versys is hanging whole night from the ceiling . She is probably not happy :)

Do you need special tool for fork compression which costs 5 $ ?
Then use two hooks at spring spacer holes and this. Work fine :)

The same tool is used to lift the motorcycle to ceiling hooks



Is valve hex screw loctited?
 

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Yes, I don't need to pull rebound valve at all. (just mistake). Is gen 3 right fork leg compatible to gen 1 versys "fork leg holder", fender and wheel?

Is this "cir-clip" accessible through cartridge tube side holes? I do not see any other option... A the bottom side where hex screw goes in there is nothing

Edit again:

In this image
from versys.co.uk forum, I see that ring as at the bottom . It seems that valve has to be pushed inside for at least 5 mm... and then ring is accessible at the bottom..

Also ring position groove can be seen from this image... I' ll try today :) my versys is hanging whole night from the ceiling . She is probably not happy :)

Do you need special tool for fork compression which costs 5 $ ?
Then use two hooks at spring spacer holes and this. Work fine :)

The same tool is used to lift the motorcycle to ceiling hooks



Is valve hex screw loctited?

I suggest that you consider purchasing a book entitled "Race Tech's Motorcycle Suspension Bible". IMHO anyone modifying motorcycle fork suspensions could benefit greatly from the information contained in this book. This is especially true for people not familiar with the process.


Good luck!
 

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Well, ! Without problem, I successfully disassembled compression valve.

Now I went to a shop and I was astonished how Motorex oil 10 W, has cst at 40°C of 49,5 which is much more then original showa ss-8 10w which is about cst 40°C 36.

I decided o try Phoneman064 shim stack, but he claims that he used Motorex 10W oil. More dense oil would imply more rebound control.., but using Motorex 10, compared to original showa 10 means much more rebound control automatically...

But where is the problem, which Motorex oil Phoneman064 had? This pages implies Motorex 10 is cst 31 https://transmoto.com.au/comparative-oil-weights-table/
But this page (together with Motorex web page) implies 10W oil is around 50 https://www.peterverdone.com/wiki/images/a/a7/PVD-ISO-Viscosity-Data.gif

So my question is: If Phoneman 064 is from USA, it seems that Racetech is dealer of Motorex oils, and maybe European 10 W is not identical to USA 10 W Motorex.

https://www.motorex.com/en-us/moto-line/fork-oil/racing-fork-oil-10w/

So there are two types of motorex oils, 10W European type (called racing fork oil) and 10W USA sold under na,e "Racetech"



Observations about this fork 2008 Versys.
- In stock form fork is harsh over square edge obstacles (dis-assembly, re-valve, and subsequent ride confirm that valving was hydraulically locking). Shims could not flex enough to allow sufficient oil flow on HS obstacle.
- Springs are slightly progressive. .8kg/mm to .9kg/mm (note that with sag taken into account you are operating in the .9kg/mm range. Measured with Intercomp Fork spring tester.
- I liked the stock bottoming resistance and find that the stock oil heights are suitable for re-valve as well.
- Base valve is of good quality and is not a factor in the hydraulic locking issue. Won't be as tunable as a two leg setup but after riding the revalve am very happy with performance. Notice the large ports in the attached picture. This is very similar to Showa units that I have serviced in the past. Nothing like the restrictive valves from kayaba on past Kawasaki's.

Without a doubt if you have a qualified suspension tuner service the right fork leg and apply the following valving you will be very happy. Harsh hits from fork are completely gone. I wouldn't even take the left leg off, unless you wanted to change the oil.

My settings
Rebound 1.5 turns out
Fork Oil Right Motorex 10wt / 90mm (stock height)
Fork Oil Left Motorex 10wt / 75mm (stock height)
Fork Right Base Valve 20mm Showa Style Modern
17 x .15 (3) ----------- removed (1) 17mm LS
14 x .1 --- HS
12 x .1 --- HS
9.5 X .2
10 x .1 (2) ------------ added to allow low speed shims further deflection
11.4 X .4 (3)
Fork Left (no valving)

Cartridge OD 22.7mm
Damper Rod 10mm
Springs are slightly progressive .80kg/mm for first 50mm
then increase to .90kg/mm
Notice that springs are turned down on top side to seat properly in spacer.
Well, the trick to removing the harshness (square edge jolts, pavement cracks, expansion joints, pot holes, etc..) but keeping it tight is doing alot of testing. :)

I've only revalved my V once. I had a good idea on where changes needed to be made if I was going to keep the stock components. If I refined the setup again I would make the following adjustment:
I would change one of the .15 x 17's for a .1 x 17 and blend the oil closer to 13wt or maybe just try the 15wt motorex.

My goal would be to get a little more rebound control. It handles the square edge stuff nicely now but over a few rides I found myself adding more rebound with the clicker. By "adding" I mean making the fork rebound slower.

Its hard to compare different brand oil viscosity. The stamped "wt" isn't accurate enough for fine tuning. The oil viscosity makes a huge difference in this fork. You can just run a lighter weight oil and improve the compression performance but you will not have good rebound control. Since the rebound is inside that sealed cartridge I chose to adjust compression valving as needed for oil weight required for proper rebound.

There are lots of different ways to approach things and every rider wants the best ride for them. I like a nice stable bike with good bottoming resistance (not alot of dive), a firm ride and no jolts through the handle bars. Good luck. Oh yea, we weigh about the same so I think you'll like it.
 

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Fork is finished, today I will test install it.

I ended up using:

17x.1
17x.15 (2)
14x.1
12x.1
9.5x.2
10x.1 (2)
11.4 .4(3)

Motorex 7,5W with cst 34.7 mixed 45% with motorex 10W cst 49,5 55% to get final cst about 42, cst slightly increased compared to the original cst showa ss-8 of 36
Cst calculator using for mixing two different oils is here, it is not linear https://www.widman.biz/English/Calculators/Mixtures.html

Last shock: Went to local shock repair shop. They cut the shock open using saw, they use "turning device" to make screw thread, so shock tube can be closed again. Also valve for pressure nitrogen is added.
There are total of 5 wide shims, two shims vere removed and "unknown" spacer was added so that 3 remaining shims can flex more. Goal was to reduce compression.
Cost of rear shock repair is 50 $.
 
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