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Phoneman,
The springs are progressive, initially soft then firmer. Hyperpro sends a 15wt oil with the springs. I assume I should use it initially, since that's what they sent; but was concerned since the stock oil is 10 wt and everyone seems to be using lighter oil. I really like the rear spring they sent, and the setup they recommended.
 

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Phoneman,
The springs are progressive, initially soft then firmer. Hyperpro sends a 15wt oil with the springs. I assume I should use it initially, since that's what they sent; but was concerned since the stock oil is 10 wt and everyone seems to be using lighter oil. I really like the rear spring they sent, and the setup they recommended.
I understand that the rate changes as the spring compresses. Without knowing what the rate is you are left with a seat-of-the-pants experiment.

I can tell you for a fact that suspension fluid comparisons using 5,10,15wt designations is not accurate between brands. Given a single brand it will give you an idea of viscosity compared to other weights of that brand. ie. Belray 5wt is thinner than Belray 10wt. But is is not very useful when different brands are compared.

Stability as temperature changes is much more useful. Here is an example Chart.

The Versys Fork has a non-serviceable rebound circuit. This means that the only way to effect rebound damping is to change the weight of the oil.

I use Motorex which is who makes Racetech Oil. All of my shim stacks are based on Motorex for consistency. I found that 10wt Motorex lacked the necessary viscosity to adequately control rebound. I think 15wt would be what you would want to use if you were using Motorex.

In your case I would use the spring and oil they gave you. I would pick generic 15wt over generic 10wt. I would also start with the stock oil levels since my own experience shows that they work well for controlling dive.
 

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Phoneman,
I finally got the Hyperpro springs in, with 15wt Hyperpro oil. Finished tonight and took my V out for a 10 mile run just to check it out. The Hyperpro progressive springs are working out well. I now have all three springs replaced with Hyperpro progressive, with a 30mm lower seat - when I'm on the bike.

The new progressive springs gives a nice ride. I've ordered several valve-shims which I'll try as soon as they come. Perhaps I'll try a lighter wt Hyperpro oil while I'm waiting.

I like the new springs.
 

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So you have a 30mm lower seat height with hyperpro springs at both ends. I'll assume you have the preload collar on the shock set at minimum.

Can you share with us fork and shock preload settings for which you're getting a 30mm drop in static seat height?

It might be that the hyperpro springs are quite a bit softer than stock. If this is true you could get away with using a lighter weight oil (as it applies to controlling rebound).
 

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Phoneman,
The static drop is only about a quarter inch, but the seat goes down another inch when the rider is on the seat. The rear shock pre-load is set in position "one," the softest setting. The front fork pre-load is at five turns in from the minimum (softest) setting. Rider sag is 50mm on both front and rear (ie, total sag when rider is on bike).
 

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Hyperpro has two different kinds of progressive springs: standard and lowering. The progresive-lowering springs are designed to lower the bike 30mm.

I've now ridden about 50 miles with just the rear Hyperpro spring, and another 60 miles with all three. The ride of my 09 V is definitely improved with all three springs, and the bike is lowered about another 30 mm. The front springs improve the handling of the bike over just installing the Hyperpro spring on the rear shock. Both turning and smoothness are improved. The front end is very smooth over bumps, etc. In fact, it's smooth enough that I may not experiment further with revalving and different oil weights. The rear could still use some more work. Perhaps a better shock.
 

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Today I did the re-valve using Phoneman's recommended stack:

17 x .15 (3) ----------- removed (1) 17mm LS
14 x .1 --- HS
12 x .1 --- HS
9.5 X .2
10 x .1 (2) ------------ added to allow low speed shims further deflection
11.4 X .4 (3)

I don't understand the theory behind the changes, but assume that Phoneman, Tomla and all others here do. I couldn't have done this project without all the guidance. Took me about three hours to do the job. Lot of that time was going back and re-reading how to get the cartridge apart. Really impressed with the help from this Forum.

So, here's what I now have: 09 V (green), I'm 205# with all my gear, have the Hyperpro progressive 30mm lowering springs in front and back, 15wt Hyperpro fork oil with 65mm in left fork and 75mm in right (OEM setting), stock rear shock, Speedy's lowering kit. 50mm rider-sag front and rear (Hyperpro recommended). Front forks preload is 5 turns in from all the way out, front rebound one-half turn from all the way in (Hyperpro recommended). Rear pre-load in positon one (softest preload), rebound at 11 clicks out.

I just got back from a 10-mile test run after the re-valve and am really pleased. I almost didn't do the re-valve because the Hyperpro springs had really improved the ride, along with another 30mm lower (I have a 29" in-seam). But the good ride is even better now. Probably my imagination, but the re-valve seems to help smooth out the action from the rear too. The front is very smooth over all kinds of bumps at both low speed (25mph) and higher speed (55mph). The rear is still a bit harsh over the larger bumps, but the front is very smooth. Hardly feel the bumps through the handlebars.

The bike is riding very nice. Someday I may try a more sophisticated shock, but the ride I have is great.

I strongly recommend the Hyperpro springs (standard or lowering) and the revalve as defined by Phoneman.

Also, both Speedy's lowering kit and the Hyperpro lowering springs work fine together. I've managed to get the seat down about 4.5" from stock with seat changes, Speedy's kit, and the Hyperpro lowering springs.

Another good day! Thanks guys!
 

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org123 asked in another thread for the shim stack I used in my 2nd revalve, so here it is:

17 x 0.15
16 x 0.15
15 x 0.1
14 x 0.1
13 x 0.1
12 x 0.1
11 x 0.1
10 x 0.1
9 x 0.15
8 x 0.3
8 x 0.3
11 x 0.3
11 x 0.3

For me, it felt about as good as it could get with only a single compression valve. This is with a 165 lb dry rider. And 0.80 kg/mm springs. I've since sold the bike.

But what I recommended to the buyer, and what I'd recommend to anyone getting into the forks, is to purchase the parts to install a real cartridge in the left fork. I first saw this idea spelled out in Wyorider's thread. It's simply a matter of buying an OEM right fork cartridge and cap (~$150), and exchanging out the "dummy" parts on the left fork. With both forks working for you, you'll be able to run even softer shim stacks and/or lighter fork oil---giving you better compliance over high speed inputs without sacrificing control under low-speed conditions (e.g. hard braking). Note that there is a small copper washer/gasket on the fork bottom allen bolt that should be replaced.

Kawasaki endowed the Versys with a great foundation as sportbike. But they had to cut costs somewhere. The "brick wall" compression stack is an example. But the right fork leg-only damping setup is where they really saved money. The good news is, you're only $150 and some elbow grease away from a proper sportbike front end.

...

I should note that my logic here is influenced by my approach with my new bike, a 2nd gen Yahama FZ1. The FZ1 has a similar fork design to the Versys, except the compression and rebound valves are in different fork legs. The cheapest (though not exactly cheap) way to address this valve shortage is to install used forks off an R1. In total the parts were $400, but also included radial brake calipers and master cylinder, and the forks have rebound adjusters, too.
 

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This thread is a little over my head. The forks on the Versys seem to operate very differently than the hydraulically damped forks on my old Ninja 500. It did not use stacks for instance, just fixed size orifices to restrict oil flow on damping and compression and later when I installed them, spring valved RaceTech cartridge emulators.

Is there links someone could post on how forks like those on the Versys work? Diagrams would be helpful. What flow path does the oil take on compression? on rebound? How does the stack tree control and adjust damping? Is there a gas cartridge?

I understand that the rate changes as the spring compresses. Without knowing what the rate is you are left with a seat-of-the-pants experiment.
From what I do know Spring rate is normally constant with a spring across it's compression unless it is a special progressive rate spring with varying winding thicknesses which the Versys does not have in stock configuration. Springs are rated by the additional force required to compress them a fixed distance. IE. 10lbs/in. To compress a 12 inch spring with a spring rate of 10lbs/in to 9 inches would require a force of 30lbs. To compress it an additional inch would require 10 more pounds.

I would also start with the stock oil levels since my own experience shows that they work well for controlling dive.
Oil level does not really effect dive. What it does is control the air gap at the top of the fork leg. This air compresses when the fork leg compresses and acts as an extra spring should the fork come close to bottoming out. The oil level specified by the manufacturer is unique to the fork volume. From what I understand it needs to be set precisely and messing with the level usually only has neg. consequences. Too little air gap can mean the fork will lock up, to much air gap means there is no extra resistance to bottoming out. Or at least that is how it worked on my Ninja.
 

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first one to bolt on a milk crate for a top box gets banished from the forum...
Here ya go, Pal...! ;)

PS Would've done it WEEKS ago, but now the tech has fixed the upload photos problemo. :thanx:
 

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Since I reported on the results from the HyperPro progressive springs, I replaced the OEM shock (and HyperPro rear-shock progressive spring) with the HyperPro racing shock (KA06-7AG). This shock has continuous compression (pre-load) adjustment, high and low-speed compression damping, and continuous rebound damping. It can also be purchased to lower the seat-height by up to 50 mm - which I did. I did not install it with Speedy's lowering link, so the rear was lowered by 50mm, the front with HyperPro progressive lowering springs was lowered by 30mm, and I moved the forks up 20mm to give me 50mm lower in both front and rear. And, of course, I have PhoneMan's fork revalve described above.

I did a fair amount of testing and found that the HyperPro recommended settings were very good. I made a couple of changes that further improved the ride, which I can describe if anyone is interested. But let me tell you, the ride of my 09 V has been transformed. Combining the suspension changes with the new Pilot Road 3 tires gave me an amazing ride.

I also did the TPS adjustment Invader suggested giving me more mid-range, making an even more-fun ride.

BTW, the progressive springs in the forks reduced dive by over 50%.

All this suspension work happened this year while I was looking for an upgrade to my 09 V. I assumed there must be a better bike for riding on backroads in NJ and PA. In March, I tested the BMW F800S, which was uncomfortable and didn't perform as well as my V. After some research, the great marketing on the new Ducati Diavel had me convinced that it was the answer. But it was going to be September before I could get a test ride. So, I started working on what I considered to be the weak points of my V: ride comfort.

I learned about the HyperPro springs on this Forum, installed and tested them as described above. The ride was greatly improved, but the OEM shock was still harsh on some situations. I tried a HD Fat Bloy Low. It felt like riding a log, so I put HD out of the runnning.

Thought more about it and decided that I wouldn't be satisfied until I tried a better shock. It was expensive, but lots cheaper than a new bike. I had a few conversations with Klaus at EPM, distributor of HyperPro products, and then bought the 50mm lower HyperPro shock (took about a month to get it built at the factory).

Still no Diavel to ride (I think the dealer had deposits on the first dozen or so that were shipped in).

Finally, the HyperPro shock came in. Installed it, tested it, and loved it, as described above.

Finally, in September, a red-carbon Diavel came in that I could test ride. I really enjoyed the ride. The Diavel is a great ride - lots of power, low seat-height, fairly comfortable, but not as comfortable as my 09 V with the changes I've described.

I spent a day thinking about it, and decided I'd rather keep and ride my "new" 09 V than start up another story with the Diavel. I'd been following the Diavel Forums, still do, and the new owners are having various issues you might expect with a new product. Much more serious than any you hear about on our Versys Forum.

So, I've invested a fair amount, relatively, in my 09 V, but it's now better, for my purposes, than any other bike I've been able to try. And that includes a BMW R1200R that I tried three weeks ago. (A nice bike, but would need spring and shock changes to be as comfortable as my V.)

And, making the changes was lots of fun, as is riding the final product (maybe not quite final).

As a final note, I decided some more comfort would come from warmer gear, this time of year. So, I bought a Gerbing heated jacket and glove liners (from the Ducati dealer). The weather is getting cooler, but I think the heated clothing will work at leat to the end of the year, and maybe some of January.
 

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Longer fork travel

I have the forks apart at the moment to redue the shim stack and was wondering if anyone had considerd fitting/extending the cartridge to get more travel.

I saw a post on Adv and someone was doing a very very expensive kit for this but there must be another way, the fork tubes look plenty long enough to get another 2in of travel. Maybe a cartrdge from some 41mm KLX forks..??

Am still fairly new to this so any help much apreciated.

Cheers

Bart
 

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Discussion Starter · #76 ·
This is what I've been running-
192# naked
62f ambient
tubes 11mm above triples
stock fork springs
40mm rider sag
rebound 1 turn out from full hard
oil height 125mm L, 135mm R
oil 25% bel ray 7w, 75% bel ray 5w (see what happens when you shop on Sunday?)
base valve stack-
.15x17
.11x16
.15x15
.15x14
damper rod polished with 800 grit, piston faces lapped with 400, then 800 grit, back of piston radiused, front lightly chamfered, light spring polish, all sharp edges taken off springs.

This is my new setup-
setup-
183# naked
tubes 18mm above triples
stock fork springs
45mm rider sag
rebound 2.5 turns out from full hard
oil height 90mm L, 100mm R
oil bel ray 15w
base valve stack-
.15x17
.10x16
.10x16
.15x15
.15x14
damper rod polished with 800 grit, piston faces lapped with 400, then 800 grit, back of piston radiused, front lightly chamfered, light spring polish, all sharp edges taken off springs.

It's awesome. The front is now better than the rear with the Elka shock on it. Still plush enough but better feel and more bottoming resistance. Rebound is all the way open so 15w is the limit in this case.
 

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Raising fork legs

I've been following this thread and appreciate the wealth of experience and knowledge y'all have shared. I'm waiting for my 13.8 kg spring for my R1 shock and figure I'll be tackling the front end next. I may just start with a fork oil change or jump into getting gold valves on both sides, or somewhere in between. While I think I have the skill to revalve, it doesn't look like my idea of a good time. Having to do it again to fine tune, even less appealing. I weigh 165 lbs in birthday suit FWIW.

I have some concern that with the softer rear spring (13.8) on the R1 shock, the steering geometry might be fouled up.

Tomla, you mentioned that you raised your fork legs in the 3x clamps. I've heard that improves turn in handling. Could you elaborate a bit on what drove your decision to raise the legs up?

Thanks.:clap:
David
 

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Why? Adjust sag at both ends by adjusting preload, and adjust the fork leg height if needed.

I did that--except not preload in front, because I don't use any, so there was nothing to back off.
As to "why"? I read in one of the r1 shock threads someone felt freaked about the way the front end handled in curves. Presumably because the the back end hung too low thus altering steering geometry. Perhaps he didn't have proper sag adjustment.

As to "I did that" do you mean you raised the fork legs? Or just backed off preload? Or both? Are you running an r1 shock?
 

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I'm running an R1 shock with a softer than the Versys stock spring, which with no adjustments would make the back sag more, making the steering angle slacker. So I made adjustments, via preload in back and fork tube height in front. Reducing preload in front is another tool, but as I mentioned in the previous post it wasn't available to me--since I don't have any.
 
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