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Shoodaben flash is really good, but not like a day and night between the original set-up. What terrible engine braking? My bike with O2 sensor removed and BP, was running just great. The new tune just made it a bit better.
I may ride a bit differently than you but when I'm cruising down the road and have to squeeze the tank with my legs prior to letting off the throttle because of fuel cut-off/engine braking, it's terrible to me. I'm also going from 4 years of stock engine riding to the Shoodaben flash. It is undoubtedly day and night, in my opinion, and has changed my view on keeping this bike or not. For that reason, I made it a point to post for the first time after nearly 2 years of lurking to find mods to make the bike more enjoyable to ride. And hey, maybe someone wants to try O2 sensor removal and BP based on your testimonial, to each their own. This was my subjective experience, I've shared it, hopefully it helps someone else if they're looking for the same thing I was.
 

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I would strongly disagree . But then Kris you are the expert.
why are you saying sarcastically that i am an expert? I just did not notice any engine braking issues. maybe i am just not sensitive enough. or maybe be removing the O2 sensor and BP cured this problem? now, that my ecu was flashed, I don't remember how it was before :). I did just a test with versys 300, which has O2 sensor removed and BP installed, and I really cannot tell a difference in engine braking when comparing to 650 flashed.

i am also wondering, why the manufacturer uses the fuel cut off? is it really bad? they may have a reason for this; after all it is in their interest that the bike runs as good as it can, and they are not stupid. Another thing is one should not use throttle as on and off switch, but close it gradually.

 

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I may ride a bit differently than you but when I'm cruising down the road and have to squeeze the tank with my legs prior to letting off the throttle because of fuel cut-off/engine braking, it's terrible to me. I'm also going from 4 years of stock engine riding to the Shoodaben flash. It is undoubtedly day and night, in my opinion, and has changed my view on keeping this bike or not. For that reason, I made it a point to post for the first time after nearly 2 years of lurking to find mods to make the bike more enjoyable to ride. And hey, maybe someone wants to try O2 sensor removal and BP based on your testimonial, to each their own. This was my subjective experience, I've shared it, hopefully it helps someone else if they're looking for the same thing I was.
I just want to second bishopb930's comments. I too have been lurking on this forum for about a year and logging miles on my 2015 Versys. After putting if off the whole year I finally went ahead with the Shoodaben ECU reflash. I'm delighted with the results. A few days after re-installing the ECU I went on an 800 mile trip in the mountains of Virginia and West Virginia and really love the smoother engine braking and the increased power accessible at lower RPMs. And the difference when cruising through small towns with 25 mph speed limits is great. Before it was either keep it revved in second or lugging in third. Now the bike has the power to pull third comfortably through town. And of course, the same applies to riding on those narrow, twisty roads. It is just a pleasure to have the extra power at low RPMs. After one long day of just cruising small roads and sightseeing I got 60 mpg, which I credit to just loping along in one gear higher than I previously would have been in. Just an all around improvement in the manner of the bike. Finally, I'll note that I did a 150 mile trip two-up last weekend - wonderful to be able to downshift / engine brake without incessant helmet clicking!
 

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ok, i spent a huge amount of money for the flash. both the German customs and Thai customs cheated me. i did flush to 1000 and 650. to be honest, i don't feel much difference from what it was before. but you guys are probably more sensitive. if i lived in USA, not doubt, i would get this flash. it is so cheap. as far as engine braking, seriously, i do not see any difference.

i know that to say anything against this flash is like to say that Jesus did not save us. * I think that OEM ECU is just fine.
 

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ok, i spent a huge amount of money for the flash. both the German customs and Thai customs cheated me. i did flush to 1000 and 650. to be honest, i don't feel much difference from what it was before. but you guys are probably more sensitive. if i lived in USA, not doubt, i would get this flash. it is so cheap. as far as engine braking, seriously, i do not see any difference.

i know that to say anything against this flash is like to say that Jesus did not save us. **** I think that OEM ECU is just fine.
Much better explanation, won't comment on the last sentence, unless it gets reported.
 

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I just want to second bishopb930's comments. I too have been lurking on this forum for about a year and logging miles on my 2015 Versys. After putting if off the whole year I finally went ahead with the Shoodaben ECU reflash. I'm delighted with the results. A few days after re-installing the ECU I went on an 800 mile trip in the mountains of Virginia and West Virginia and really love the smoother engine braking and the increased power accessible at lower RPMs. And the difference when cruising through small towns with 25 mph speed limits is great. Before it was either keep it revved in second or lugging in third. Now the bike has the power to pull third comfortably through town. And of course, the same applies to riding on those narrow, twisty roads. It is just a pleasure to have the extra power at low RPMs. After one long day of just cruising small roads and sightseeing I got 60 mpg, which I credit to just loping along in one gear higher than I previously would have been in. Just an all around improvement in the manner of the bike. Finally, I'll note that I did a 150 mile trip two-up last weekend - wonderful to be able to downshift / engine brake without incessant helmet clicking!
Posts like yours probably puts a smile on Steve's face. @Kris mentioned removing the oxygen sensor, that may be part of why he doesn't notice the difference. On top of the engine braking, the fan comes on I think 10' sooner, no question it is like a different bike. And some members that had the booster plug have done the conversion as well. I was very close to selling my 2015 and looking for my 07 that I sold. Now you could offer new price and I wouldn't sell!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #208 ·
Posts like yours probably puts a smile on Steve's face. @Kris mentioned removing the oxygen sensor, that may be part of why he doesn't notice the difference. On top of the engine braking, the fan comes on I think 10' sooner, no question it is like a different bike. And some members that had the booster plug have done the conversion as well. I was very close to selling my 2015 and looking for my 07 that I sold. Now you could offer new price and I wouldn't sell!!
I am always glad when folks find value in what I've done. The flash isn't like adding another cylinder, but I do feel it smooths out the rough edges for everyday riding. Most folks will feel it, some won't either from sensitivity, or not knowing how to even identify the issues they didn't like before as compared to afterwards. You have to know what you didn't like to be able to see if the flash meets your expectations. If you think everything preflash is fine, you won't notice much in the change post - flash because you don't have any specific things to see if they are impoved or not.

Kris, I'm speaking to you.

I thank you for being a customer, and I know you paid way to much because of the various custom's charges. While I appreciate that you purchased my flashes, I have to agree with you, there is a finite value on everything, and the flashes aren't worth the exorbitant amount you ultimately paid, at least in my sphere of valuation. That said though, you know it certainly is worth my asking price, as do others here.
Sometimes you really stretch to make your point, like comparing a versys 300 on / off throttle vs a versys 650 on / off throttle. They are not comparable, just like comparing the versys 650 would be to a Concours 1400. The reason is POWER. How much power do you get coming back on throttle with a 300? now a 650? and finally, the 1400? Let me tell you, the smaller the engine, the less the power differential. Less power = smoother transitions. A stock Concours 1400 transitioning from closed to open throttle to exit a downhill curve will literally stand the bike up and throw you offline, to the outside of the curve. This isn't going to happen with a 650. Saying that a 650 coming back on throttle is like a 300 is actually a compliment.
Further, you need to use a product in the manner it was intended. As for your Versys 1000, it was tuned for the setup you told us you had. Afterwards, you changed that setup, and again, like your 650, expressed displeasure. Use the flashes in the setup they are built for, and expect the changes I have outlined. I think that's a reasonable expectation.
Once you start comparing apples and oranges, you're no longer being fair to the product. Just my .02.
Steve
 

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I am always glad when folks find value in what I've done. The flash isn't like adding another cylinder, but I do feel it smooths out the rough edges for everyday riding. Most folks will feel it, some won't either from sensitivity, or not knowing how to even identify the issues they didn't like before as compared to afterwards. You have to know what you didn't like to be able to see if the flash meets your expectations. If you think everything preflash is fine, you won't notice much in the change post - flash because you don't have any specific things to see if they are impoved or not.

Kris, I'm speaking to you.

I thank you for being a customer, and I know you paid way to much because of the various custom's charges. While I appreciate that you purchased my flashes, I have to agree with you, there is a finite value on everything, and the flashes aren't worth the exorbitant amount you ultimately paid, at least in my sphere of valuation. That said though, you know it certainly is worth my asking price, as do others here.
Sometimes you really stretch to make your point, like comparing a versys 300 on / off throttle vs a versys 650 on / off throttle. They are not comparable, just like comparing the versys 650 would be to a Concours 1400. The reason is POWER. How much power do you get coming back on throttle with a 300? now a 650? and finally, the 1400? Let me tell you, the smaller the engine, the less the power differential. Less power = smoother transitions. A stock Concours 1400 transitioning from closed to open throttle to exit a downhill curve will literally stand the bike up and throw you offline, to the outside of the curve. This isn't going to happen with a 650. Saying that a 650 coming back on throttle is like a 300 is actually a compliment.
Further, you need to use a product in the manner it was intended. As for your Versys 1000, it was tuned for the setup you told us you had. Afterwards, you changed that setup, and again, like your 650, expressed displeasure. Use the flashes in the setup they are built for, and expect the changes I have outlined. I think that's a reasonable expectation.
Once you start comparing apples and oranges, you're no longer being fair to the product. Just my .02.
Steve

thank you. however, i did just not notice any breaking issues with 650. as I said, maybe i am not sensitive enough. as far as V1000 is concerned, with the black widow, i i did lose low torque power. but no problem. i just reverted to the OEM headers with CAT removed, and now it is great. i am wondering if high velocity stacks could work wit 650??? with 1000 there was an obvious improvement.
 

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Discussion Starter · #211 ·
thank you. however, i did just not notice any breaking issues with 650. as I said, maybe i am not sensitive enough. as far as V1000 is concerned, with the black widow, i i did lose low torque power. but no problem. i just reverted to the OEM headers with CAT removed, and now it is great. i am wondering if high velocity stacks could work wit 650??? with 1000 there was an obvious improvement.
Well, you're proving what I said. You hadn't noticed a problem with the engine braking prior to the flash, so that's not something that mattered either way to you. Other folks who don't like the stock engine braking identified it as an issue for their riding style, and therefore are happy to see the change post-flash.
As far as the versys 1000 BW header... that low rpm loss is a natural result of the larger diameter primary pipes. I wrote about this on my webpage, and also in other places you and I visit on the web. That loss has nothing to do with tuning. In fact I did a lot of experimenting, again posting the results on my site or online as to mitigating the low rpm loss by slightly restricting the exhaust or adding the tall velocity stacks. ALL of the info you would need was posted prior to you buying the BW header. I do the best I can to share and educate, but if folks don't read it, there's nothing I can do about that.
Regarding changing the stacks on the versys 650? I haven't experimented with it, and knowing we're dealing with a small displacement 2 cylinder, my personal riding styyle would dictate keeping more rpms on the bike if I'm trying to get real acceleration out of it. In fact adding more power below about 4k will result in more of the "chug chug chug" feeling as each hit of power is more intense, but the rpm's haven't risen to the point of smoothing the torque pulses out. You can't make a 2 cylinder into a 4 cylinder by tuning. Use more rpm if you want quicker acceleration.
 

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Discussion Starter · #212 ·
To everyone -
Some might think it bad form for me to be engaging Kris publicly. I think Kris is OK with it. At least I hope so. The reason I'm posting my responses publicly is because I think there's a lot to be learned in my answers... like power differential from off to on throttle, the issue of engine braking, and also how changing hard parts affects the tuning. This really is a "behind the curtain" view of the issues I have to consider as a tuner, and how dealing with different riding styles and expectations plays into the choices I need to make along the way while developing a tune. I hope y'all see this in the light it's intended, to be transparent and share with everyone. IMO, educated people are the best consumers with the most realistic expectations.
 

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Well, you're proving what I said. You hadn't noticed a problem with the engine braking prior to the flash, so that's not something that mattered either way to you. Other folks who don't like the stock engine braking identified it as an issue for their riding style, and therefore are happy to see the change post-flash.
As far as the versys 1000 BW header... that low rpm loss is a natural result of the larger diameter primary pipes. I wrote about this on my webpage, and also in other places you and I visit on the web. That loss has nothing to do with tuning. In fact I did a lot of experimenting, again posting the results on my site or online as to mitigating the low rpm loss by slightly restricting the exhaust or adding the tall velocity stacks. ALL of the info you would need was posted prior to you buying the BW header. I do the best I can to share and educate, but if folks don't read it, there's nothing I can do about that.
Regarding changing the stacks on the versys 650? I haven't experimented with it, and knowing we're dealing with a small displacement 2 cylinder, my perhsonal riding styyle would dictate keeping more rpms on the bike if I'm trying to get real acceleration out of it. In fact adding more power below about 4k will result in more of the "chug chug chug" feeling as each hit of power is more intense, but the rpm's haven't risen to the point of smoothing the torque pulses out. You can't make a 2 cylinder into a 4 cylinder by tuning. Use more rpm if you want quicker acceleration.
[/QUOT]


thank you Steve very much for the calcifications.
 

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To everyone -
Some might think it bad form for me to be engaging Kris publicly. I think Kris is OK with it. At least I hope so. The reason I'm posting my responses publicly is because I think there's a lot to be learned in my answers... like power differential from off to on throttle, the issue of engine braking, and also how changing hard parts affects the tuning. This really is a "behind the curtain" view of the issues I have to consider as a tuner, and how dealing with different riding styles and expectations plays into the choices I need to make along the way while developing a tune. I hope y'all see this in the light it's intended, to be transparent and share with everyone. IMO, educated people are the best consumers with the most realistic expectations.
I knew you were a huge asset way back in 2017 I have never come across a post by you that lacked some sort of wisdom; this post was outstanding, excellent video
 
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