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Why would you mess up the flash's hard worked fueling with a booster plug? I don't want any booster plugs, power commanders, dobek boxes or witches spells stepping on my flash.
And there's virtually NO difference because of the cat. Go look at my versys 1000 dyno charts. todays oen exhausts are not limited by the cats. They are actually very will designed systems, but the restriction is in using smaller pipe diameters that control power at a pre-determined power level.
Steve
Steve, thank you for answering my question. But for instance, in your tune for Versys 1000, I think you make a bit different maps for stock exhausts and open exhausts, no? I am asking, because I have also send for the flash the 1000 ECU. For instance, you have for Concours something called Area P full system, for fully open exhaust, so there must be some difference.
 

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I finally got to ride my bike with the flashed ECU. Steve turned it around quickly, but the post office sent it on an extended tour. By the time I got it back the snow got in the way. I don’t have a garage, and putting the ECU back on the bike requires fingers that aren’t frozen. Was hoping for a closer before and after test so I could gauge the difference better, but having tried it now, it’s pretty obvious. I don’t have a ton of miles on it yet, and I couldn’t really say what my mileage was before or after. I’m guessing I’ll be burning more fuel though, because I want to ride it more now. I was thinking it would be my highway bike, with my KLX doing the twisty bits near home, but now choosing between the two is going to be harder.
 

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Discussion Starter · #183 ·
Steve, thank you for answering my question. But for instance, in your tune for Versys 1000, I think you make a bit different maps for stock exhausts and open exhausts, no? I am asking, because I have also send for the flash the 1000 ECU. For instance, you have for Concours something called Area P full system, for fully open exhaust, so there must be some difference.
There are differences... and in alot of the mapping, particularly if there is larger head pipes and the light throttle torque is down, the fuel mix requires less fuel because the engine is moving less air. That doesn't mean it's leaner, but some may say the mapping is leaner. That completely goes against your idea that the mixture needs to be richened up.
I don't know what you do for a living, but you're probably good at it. I'm good at what I do. You might want to stay in your lane, and I'll stay in mine, and you'll get a really nice flash for your bike.
Steve
 

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There are differences... and in alot of the mapping, particularly if there is larger head pipes and the light throttle torque is down, the fuel mix requires less fuel because the engine is moving less air. That doesn't mean it's leaner, but some may say the mapping is leaner. That completely goes against your idea that the mixture needs to be richened up.
I don't know what you do for a living, but you're probably good at it. I'm good at what I do. You might want to stay in your lane, and I'll stay in mine, and you'll get a really nice flash for your bike.
Steve
yes, i obviously trust your expertise and do not question it, as I am sending 2 ECUs to you. And I appreciate that you take your time to explain that things. I seem to carry some misconceptions, such as the open exhaust makes the mixture leaner (you kind of are saying the opposite as mapping needs to be leaner ?). I know that some solution bikers come up with, in order to reduce popping in open exhaust, is to enrich the mixture, especially when the throttle is closed upon deceleration. I tried that with Dynojet in my previous Vulcan S, but with little success. The bike kept popping, which annoyed me. Interesting enough, both Versys 650 and 1000 are not popping at all (V650 pops a little if DB killer is removed).

I had many carburettor bikes (still have some old British classics) that I tuned myself; you know, by checking the colour of the spark plug and changing the different jets, position of needle or fitting different size carburettors, changing the compression, cams and timing. so i am not completely ignorant, but the mapping of the modern bikes still eludes me, so I leave it to you :)

In my job, I am actually mapping the human brain/consciousness, because I teach a very complex system of meditation that I developed myself.
 

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Discussion Starter · #185 ·
yes, i obviously trust your expertise and do not question it, as I am sending 2 ECUs to you. And I appreciate that you take your time to explain that things. I seem to carry some misconceptions, such as the open exhaust makes the mixture leaner (you kind of are saying the opposite as mapping needs to be leaner ?). I know that some solution bikers come up with, in order to reduce popping in open exhaust, is to enrich the mixture, especially when the throttle is closed upon deceleration. I tried that with Dynojet in my previous Vulcan S, but with little success. The bike kept popping, which annoyed me. Interesting enough, both Versys 650 and 1000 are not popping at all (V650 pops a little if DB killer is removed).

I had many carburettor bikes (still have some old British classics) that I tuned myself; you know, by checking the colour of the spark plug and changing the different jets, position of needle or fitting different size carburettors, changing the compression, cams and timing. so i am not completely ignorant, but the mapping of the modern bikes still eludes me, so I leave it to you :)

In my job, I am actually mapping the human brain/consciousness, because I teach a very complex system of meditation that I developed myself.
yes, i obviously trust your expertise and do not question it, as I am sending 2 ECUs to you. And I appreciate that you take your time to explain that things. I seem to carry some misconceptions, such as the open exhaust makes the mixture leaner (you kind of are saying the opposite as mapping needs to be leaner ?). I know that some solution bikers come up with, in order to reduce popping in open exhaust, is to enrich the mixture, especially when the throttle is closed upon deceleration. I tried that with Dynojet in my previous Vulcan S, but with little success. The bike kept popping, which annoyed me. Interesting enough, both Versys 650 and 1000 are not popping at all (V650 pops a little if DB killer is removed).

I had many carburettor bikes (still have some old British classics) that I tuned myself; you know, by checking the colour of the spark plug and changing the different jets, position of needle or fitting different size carburettors, changing the compression, cams and timing. so i am not completely ignorant, but the mapping of the modern bikes still eludes me, so I leave it to you :)

In my job, I am actually mapping the human brain/consciousness, because I teach a very complex system of meditation that I developed myself.

I didn't say ALL of the mapping would be leaner, and I pointed out light throttle as an example. And again, not leaner, but requiring less fuel because it's not as efficient with large pipes at moving light throttle air volume. You're approaching it as a "one size fits all" and it's not.
Even with carburetion, different jets or needles target different areas of the fuel mix. there's more bleed over with carburetion. EFI is precise.
When I build a flash, I fit the bike with a wideband 02 sensor, ride and datalog the fuel afr's across all the fuel maps. Then I make changes to the fuel mapping, and do it again. My fuel mapping is done in the real world, while riding. Some WOT work is done on the dyno, then confirmed in the real world. Do you see the comments about my flash? It's because I don't build them in an afternoon of dyno work, or on a bench like others do. I own the bike, and have months of work to get it where i want it.
I'm old school. My name is on my work, and I take pride in what I do.
Steve
 

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I didn't say ALL of the mapping would be leaner, and I pointed out light throttle as an example. And again, not leaner, but requiring less fuel because it's not as efficient with large pipes at moving light throttle air volume. You're approaching it as a "one size fits all" and it's not.
Even with carburetion, different jets or needles target different areas of the fuel mix. there's more bleed over with carburetion. EFI is precise.
When I build a flash, I fit the bike with a wideband 02 sensor, ride and datalog the fuel afr's across all the fuel maps. Then I make changes to the fuel mapping, and do it again. My fuel mapping is done in the real world, while riding. Some WOT work is done on the dyno, then confirmed in the real world. Do you see the comments about my flash? It's because I don't build them in an afternoon of dyno work, or on a bench like others do. I own the bike, and have months of work to get it where i want it.
I'm old school. My name is on my work, and I take pride in what I do.
Steve
yes, I know. in carburettor, the pilot jet is from zero to 1/8 throttle opening, the needle jet is around 1/4 opening if I remember correctly, and the main jet is up to full throttle opening.

Anyway, thank you for your great work! All the riders seem to be very happy about the results, which I find reassuring. I am curious myself how it will feel. Hopefully, i am sensitive enough to notice the difference.
 

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one thing I am curious about is that the rev limiter still kicks in at 10.000 rpm, and not 9.500 as advertised. it is not that I care. one can reach the rev limiter only at the 5th gear anyway. still, the description is inaccurate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #188 ·
one thing I am curious about is that the rev limiter still kicks in at 10.000 rpm, and not 9.500 as advertised. it is not that I care. one can reach the rev limiter only at the 5th gear anyway. still, the description is inaccurate.
Rev limiters aren't for top speed limitation.
 

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Rev limiters aren't for top speed limitation.
yes sure, they are for the rpm limitation, irrespectively on what gear one rides. but you changed it according to the info provided. however, if I could ride 10.000 rpm with my 650, on 5th gear, this means that the rev limiter was not lowered to 9.500, or am i missing something? it is not that I care about rev limiter, but just saying.
 

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ALL the V650 EVER needs is 87 octane!

Anything w/ higher octane is JUST WASTING $$$!
 

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I use high octane, because it is only one here without the crap-ethanol. ethanol attracts water and burns hotter/weaker.
 

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yea, I guess 87 octane is 91 in civilised countries (RON) :) 650 is meant to run 91 from the factory, so no issue if flashed or not flashed. do you have ethanol free fuel (no corn syrup) in your country?

Oh, i seem to be wrong. According the Micheal, who flashed my ECU in Germany, 91 in RON is 95 in whatever it is called it in USA.

another question is, can you really detect knocking in that high revving engines? I run my Tiger 800 on all kind of shitty fuel in India (they don't tell you what is it made of), and it seems to be ok, but who knows in the long run.

I personally prefer not to run on corn syrup than caring about the octane rate. Incidentally, higher octane is not just more expensive, but makes your bike running weaker to prevent detonation. still, I prefer 95RON without ethanol than lower octane with corn syrup. (they don't have here lower than 91. which means they do not have in Thailand 87 as you call it.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #195 ·
yea, I guess 87 octane is 91 in civilised countries (RON) :) 650 is meant to run 91 from the factory, so no issue if flashed or not flashed. do you have ethanol free fuel (no corn syrup) in your country?

Oh, i seem to be wrong. According the Micheal, who flashed my ECU in Germany, 91 in RON is 95 in whatever it is called it in USA.

another question is, can you really detect knocking in that high revving engines? I run my Tiger 800 on all kind of shitty fuel in India (they don't tell you what is it made of), and it seems to be ok, but who knows in the long run.

I personally prefer not to run on corn syrup than caring about the octane rate. Incidentally, higher octane is not just more expensive, but makes your bike running weaker to prevent detonation. still, I prefer 95RON without ethanol than lower octane with corn syrup. (they don't have here lower than 91. which means they do not have in Thailand 87 as you call it.)
yea, I guess 87 octane is 91 in civilised countries (RON) :) 650 is meant to run 91 from the factory, so no issue if flashed or not flashed. do you have ethanol free fuel (no corn syrup) in your country?

Oh, i seem to be wrong. According the Micheal, who flashed my ECU in Germany, 91 in RON is 95 in whatever it is called it in USA.

another question is, can you really detect knocking in that high revving engines? I run my Tiger 800 on all kind of shitty fuel in India (they don't tell you what is it made of), and it seems to be ok, but who knows in the long run.

I personally prefer not to run on corn syrup than caring about the octane rate. Incidentally, higher octane is not just more expensive, but makes your bike running weaker to prevent detonation. still, I prefer 95RON without ethanol than lower octane with corn syrup. (they don't have here lower than 91. which means they do not have in Thailand 87 as you call it.)
Octane is the single most important aspect of choosing gasoline. If you use gas with ethanol, you can have carburetor problems. If you use gas with a poor cleaning package, you can have fuel injector problems. If you use gas without enough octane, you'll have holes in pistons, cracked rings, broken pistons and bearing problems.
Steve
 

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another question is, can you really detect knocking in that high revving engines? I run my Tiger 800 on all kind of shitty fuel in India (they don't tell you what is it made of), and it seems to be ok, but who knows in the long run.

I personally prefer not to run on corn syrup than caring about the octane rate.
I've had knock problems in cars many decades ago. You know how a good drummer can hit really fast doing a drum roll? It sounded like that only hitting on metal from the engine area. Definitely audible.

If it is knocking at high rpms, there is a big problem going on! Knock is much more likely at low rpms with high throttle settings.

Another name for knock is detonation, because that is what is happening. Instead of burning, the fuel is exploding. Thus the very high pressures which damage the engine and make the audible ping/knock/tick sounds.

Ethanol has less energy per gallon, but high octane fuel wastes your money. I believe from a technical standpoint either one works in a modern engine without damage, and both cost more money than the correct octane without ethanol. All else being equal, I'd go with the correct octane without ethanol.

Of the two other choices, I would choose the better quality fuel, meaning purer with less water or other garbage in it. The one with a better additive package to keep the engine running clean.
 

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I've had knock problems in cars many decades ago. You know how a good drummer can hit really fast doing a drum roll? It sounded like that only hitting on metal from the engine area. Definitely audible.

If it is knocking at high rpms, there is a big problem going on! Knock is much more likely at low rpms with high throttle settings.

Another name for knock is detonation, because that is what is happening. Instead of burning, the fuel is exploding. Thus the very high pressures which damage the engine and make the audible ping/knock/tick sounds.

Ethanol has less energy per gallon, but high octane fuel wastes your money. I believe from a technical standpoint either one works in a modern engine without damage, and both cost more money than the correct octane without ethanol. All else being equal, I'd go with the correct octane without ethanol.

Of the two other choices, I would choose the better quality fuel, meaning purer with less water or other garbage in it. The one with a better additive package to keep the engine running clean.
unfortunately, here, in Thailand, the ethanol free fuel cost much more than the one with 10% ethanol. I still prefer to spend the money, rather than running the bike on corn syrup.
 

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Well I finally decided to get the flash from Shoodaben and I am extremely happy that I did. It corrects the ridiculous engine braking, I immediately noticed more power in the 4-8k RPM range (I’m sure I’ll get used to that and not notice after a while but it definitely keeps giving more beyond the point which I’m used to) and, as a result of the fuel cut off delete and a Sargent low seat, it has also corrected the issue of having the boys uncomfortably squeezed when riding. I’m being completely honest in that I was looking for a different bike before getting the flash and was regretting getting rid of my KLR. Now I feel as comfortable on this bike as I did with the KLR. No more being thrown into the tank when letting off the throttle, no more worries about which gear to be in when you shouldn’t have to or having to play with the clutch going around the exorbitant amount of roundabouts we have, and no more worries about in town riding and deciding between high revs and extreme engine braking or low revs and being bucked. Everything is just more intuitive and feels like a bike should feel. I can appreciate those saying get used to your bike and ride it with the experience you’ve gained but I’m sorry, I’m not at a road course on a super sport at the edge of staying upright or being down. I want something that feels simple, rides simple, and is fun. Shoodaben has knocked it out of the park and has given me all that and more. I appreciate all the work that Steve has poured into this, if you’re considering a flash then you need not look any further. Boxes = Checked.
 

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Shoodaben flash is really good, but not like a day and night between the original set-up. What terrible engine braking? My bike with O2 sensor removed and BP, was running just great. The new tune just made it a bit better.
 

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Shoodaben flash is really good, but not like a day and night between the original set-up. What terrible engine braking? My bike with O2 sensor removed and BP, was running just great. The new tune just made it a bit better.
I would strongly disagree .
 
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