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Discussion Starter #1
Original inquiry here: https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/5-member-introductions/218847-new-member-here.html

Well my CEL went on again this morning ride. It's been about a month since it went off in mid December when I took out the O2 and cleaned the tip of it with carburetor cleaner.

Now just before I cleaned it, it was looking pretty "sooty." Lots of black stuff all through out the surface of the sensor. Then after I cleaned it, I could actually see the white ceramic piece in the middle. And after a couple days of riding, the CEL went off. Well now it's been a month give or take and coming right off the highway from 70ish MPH, the CEL went on when I started to fully decel.

A couple of things I'm thinking about this. One, I might have a faulty O2 sensor that is not heating up hot enough to burn off all the soot. Two, I might be burning rich for some reason (but I'm still getting good mileage).

My plan I think I might try and see if my dealer will cover a new O2 sensor. My bike is still under warranty until August '19. Since I do have a slip on exhaust from scorpion, it isn't too difficult to just put my original back on and see if that "heals" itself. If it doesn't "heal" itself, then I'll take it to the dealer and see if they cover the O2 sensor and labor.

So a couple of questions to you guys...Even when I had my stock exhaust on my bike, I still noticed the exhaust tip was very sooty. Ergo, I could run my finger on it and get a bunch of black soot on my finger. Just out of curiosity, anyone with their stock exhaust on a 3rd gen v650 notice a substantial amount of soot on the exhaust tip?
 

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I have not had a noticable soot buildup like you describe, either with the stock or LeoVince exhaust.

I cant imagine the stock vs aftermarket exhaust is the issue save for a leak at the header ports, but I would be pursuing the dealer for a replacement sensor, as they can be expensive and finicky parts. The service manual has a procedure for diagnosing the signal from the O2 sensor but it requires a very sensitive multi-meter, and will be easier to have the dealer do that and replace it.

Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
My stock one is black but not what I'd call sooty................15' 650LT.
Hmmm...interesting. Thanks for the feedback none the less.


I have not had a noticable soot buildup like you describe, either with the stock or LeoVince exhaust.

I cant imagine the stock vs aftermarket exhaust is the issue save for a leak at the header ports, but I would be pursuing the dealer for a replacement sensor, as they can be expensive and finicky parts. The service manual has a procedure for diagnosing the signal from the O2 sensor but it requires a very sensitive multi-meter, and will be easier to have the dealer do that and replace it.

Good luck!
You have a point about the service manual and diagnosing the signal. It requires a tool; Oxygen Sensor Measuring Adapter: 57001-1682.

I'm going to try calling a dealer and see what they have to say about parts and labor for what is covered.

Scorpion exhaust claim that they need no re-tuning of the bike for their product to work. I want to believe them, but the question is if the dealer will buy that.

You can see Scorpion explaining that in the FAQ section under motorcycle: https://www.scorpion-exhausts.com/faq
 

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I've never noticed anything like that w/ my '15, and just put my finger into the tip on my '08 (OEM muffler) and got NOTHING onto my finger.

There doesn't appear to be any 'soot' on the tip in this pic from October,



nor on the tip after riding BOTH ways across Canada in '17 (OEM exhaust).

 

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Discussion Starter #6
I've never noticed anything like that w/ my '15, and just put my finger into the tip on my '08 (OEM muffler) and got NOTHING onto my finger.

There doesn't appear to be any 'soot' on the tip in this pic from October,



nor on the tip after riding BOTH ways across Canada in '17 (OEM exhaust).

That's good to know. Humm....the exhaust tip doesn't look too black or anything...

Well thinking about it, it's not like I get terrible fuel mileage. So I'm not thinking I'm running excessively rich.
 

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Symptoms of a Bad Oxygen Sensor
Lack of proper signal responsible for fuel - air mixture and irregular fuel emissions are among the early signs. Some of the problems associated with the sensors are listed as follows.

Poor Gas Mileage: A sudden and a drastic decrease in the mileage of the vehicle is one of the symptoms. In layman's words, the fuel consumption of the vehicle increases and also results in irregular mixture of fuel and air.
Engine Pinging: This is also another severe O2 sensor symptom that triggers the combustion gases to ignite at wrong time.
Increased Fuel Emission: As we know that fuel - air mixture is determined by the oxygen sensors, but an inefficient one fails to measure the ratio accurately, resulting in excessive fuel emission.
Engine Missing: Engine missing is a symptom which becomes more prominent when the vehicle is running slow or when it is not running at all.
Rough Idle: Problems in O2 sensors hinders the smooth running of a vehicle. Installation of defective sensor causes rough engine idle.

These are very basic and if you don't have any of these symptoms and as you have already cleaned your O2 sensor, best get the dealer to look at it.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Symptoms of a Bad Oxygen Sensor
Lack of proper signal responsible for fuel - air mixture and irregular fuel emissions are among the early signs. Some of the problems associated with the sensors are listed as follows.

Poor Gas Mileage: A sudden and a drastic decrease in the mileage of the vehicle is one of the symptoms. In layman's words, the fuel consumption of the vehicle increases and also results in irregular mixture of fuel and air.
Engine Pinging: This is also another severe O2 sensor symptom that triggers the combustion gases to ignite at wrong time.
Increased Fuel Emission: As we know that fuel - air mixture is determined by the oxygen sensors, but an inefficient one fails to measure the ratio accurately, resulting in excessive fuel emission.
Engine Missing: Engine missing is a symptom which becomes more prominent when the vehicle is running slow or when it is not running at all.
Rough Idle: Problems in O2 sensors hinders the smooth running of a vehicle. Installation of defective sensor causes rough engine idle.

These are very basic and if you don't have any of these symptoms and as you have already cleaned your O2 sensor, best get the dealer to look at it.
I wouldn't know if 1 or 2 MPG difference would be drastic per se..? But that's about all I notice when the check engine light is illuminated. Otherwise, no notice with rough idle or any engine missing/pinging. Good info to review tho, too.

or just shut the sensor off and don't worry about it, like Hawkerjet did.
I would like to retain having the functionality of the O2 sensor...as this was my main reason for getting a versys vs sticking with my KLR...via fuel injection vs carburetor.


As an update tho, I found my Kawasaki warranty card which expires 8/18/2019. I'm going to put my old exhaust back on this weekend and see if I could ride it a few days to determine if the CEL for the O2 goes out. If not, I'm going to the dealer!
 
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That's good to know. Humm....the exhaust tip doesn't look too black or anything...

Well thinking about it, it's not like I get terrible fuel mileage. So I'm not thinking I'm running excessively rich.
FWIW - I have never particularly cleaned around the "tail-pipe", so IF it was running rich - the evidence would STILL be there.

:goodluck:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well, I guess the amount of soot really isn't that much. I think what I have is normal. After taking a napkin to my exhaust tip, barely any showed up so it's most likely not really running rich from the evidence.
 

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RocketyMan, I've got a cheater plug which you are welcome to. It plugs into the wiring where the O2 sensor plugs in, and tells the ECU the mixture is perfect. You can leave the O2 sensor in the exhaust, just not plugged into the harness. With the cheater plug installed it should isolate the fault, so if it is your sensor somewhere then the fault will go away. If the fault is elsewhere in the electronics it will still throw the error code.

I used the cheater when I was having bad mixture problems. I suspected an O2 sensor problem but it turned out to be a well hidden vacuum leak in the line to the throttle body pressure sensor that took the mixture very lean. I did get some error codes but I don't recall what they were, and it only happened during deceleration once the engine was warmed up. A new vacuum line solved the problem.

Message me your address and I'll drop the cheater in the mail to you.
 

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RocketyMan, I've got a cheater plug which you are welcome to. It plugs into the wiring where the O2 sensor plugs in, and tells the ECU the mixture is perfect. You can leave the O2 sensor in the exhaust, just not plugged into the harness. With the cheater plug installed it should isolate the fault, so if it is your sensor somewhere then the fault will go away. If the fault is elsewhere in the electronics it will still throw the error code.

I used the cheater when I was having bad mixture problems. I suspected an O2 sensor problem but it turned out to be a well hidden vacuum leak in the line to the throttle body pressure sensor that took the mixture very lean. I did get some error codes but I don't recall what they were, and it only happened during deceleration once the engine was warmed up. A new vacuum line solved the problem.

Message me your address and I'll drop the cheater in the mail to you.
Oh wow...so you had a vacuum leak, huh? That would make sense for an always lean mixture.

Alright, I'm willing to try the cheater plug for diagnosis purposes. PM sent.
 
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Just as an update, I got the cheater O2 plug in the mail a couple days ago. Thank you @Fly-Sig for sending me the cheater plug! As soon as I plugged in the cheater plug, boom...check engine light went off. So I think this confirms my O2 is bad and that the wiring to the sensor pigtail is good.

Since then, I actually found a 2018 650 ninja O2 sensor on ebay for $40 bucks and bought it. The bike only had 77 miles on it, evidently. The only difference is the cable length of the O2 sensor in comparison to the Versys O2 sensor. The ninja is about double the length. Nothing a quick zip tie cant fix.

At this point, I'm wondering if it's worth it putting on my OEM exhaust and take it back to the dealer just to get an O2 sensor out of it. :|
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Update in regards to O2 sensor. I finally took my bike into the dealer about two weeks ago with my stock exhaust hooked back up and the bum O2 sensor in. Naturally the MIL came on in the dash and I took it to my dealer that day to scan it. After they got approval for replacing O2 under warranty, I got it replaced.

So far so good. I should see an improvement in my mileage now.
 
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