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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello all. I have a 2015 Versys 650 LT.

This year, I changed my stock sprockets to be almost all centered around cruising, top end, high MPG, and long riding. So I went down as much as I could in the rear, and up as much as I could in the front. It ended up being something like down 13 rear, up 3 or 4 in the front I think.

NOW, before everyone says "wow, that's such a crazy change" I have to say, that I had previously given it a try where I went only slightly lower, rather than the max I could. And it just wasn't the difference I wanted. I pretty much ONLY do highway miles, and when I'm at 80 mph, I don't want to be at 6K vibrating as all get out. So I'm very pleased with the end result so far, because the RPMs are wayyy lower and make it more comfortable to ride.

DOWNSIDES: There is two huge downsides occurring however.
1. The speed calibration. It is showing as 10 miles under my actual limit. So I have to do some math to make sure I'm "going the speed limit" ;)
2. The MPG has gone unacceptably low. I went from 48-50 MPG to now about 35 MPG. At first I chalked this up to punching the bike when I got it back from the shop, just to see it's new limits. And that's not the issue, I have ridden it in the most Eco friendly riding style, and I can not for the life of me pass 38 MPG.

So talking with a friend of mine, he recommend the solution to both of these downsides would be to get a DynoJet Power Commander. I wanted to probe the V650 community and get everyone's thoughts on that. If I went that route, I could even set up different maps for riding conditions. Highway, sport, off road, etc. He also mentioned something about the Power Commander even controlling the ABS module, which I wasn't sure about either, but this guy's ridden way longer and is a mechanic. So what do I know? If it could control the ABS module, than I could remove my ABS breaker switch that I keep in the right outlet on the panel, and put a system in place to rapidly change between Power Commander Maps.

What are your thoughts on these? Any advice is appreciated!

EDIT: Gearing is 16/41
 

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I have a theory on your MPG decrease. The engineers have calculated the proper gearing for the motorcycle so that it is the best of acceleration, cruising, and economy. By going with such a drastic change and running the RPMs so low, you actually have to give more throttle and thus more fuel to maintain the desired speed at the gear you want to be in.

If you have any 10 speed or greater bicycle experience think about how much work it would be to pedal slower in a higher gear to maintain a speed than to downshift and have your legs rotating at the optimum 60 rpms. When you are riding that bicycle, you goal is to keep you legs pumping at the steady pace which is optimum efficiency for your body and shift gears to get the speed you desire.

My '11 Versys did not like to be below 4000 RPMs in 4th through 6th gears.

I'm also guessing that if you tried to find the top speed of the motorcycle with your gearing change, you will find that it is now in 4th gear, and once you hit that top speed and shift into 6th the bike will actually slow down because it doesn't have enough power against the wind drag to go any faster.

It would be very interesting to find out what the HP and torque numbers are on a dyno with your new gearing.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I have a theory on your MPG decrease. The engineers have calculated the proper gearing for the motorcycle so that it is the best of acceleration, cruising, and economy. By going with such a drastic change and running the RPMs so low, you actually have to give more throttle and thus more fuel to maintain the desired speed at the gear you want to be in.

If you have any 10 speed or greater bicycle experience think about how much work it would be to pedal slower in a higher gear to maintain a speed than to downshift and have your legs rotating at the optimum 60 rpms. When you are riding that bicycle, you goal is to keep you legs pumping at the steady pace which is optimum efficiency for your body and shift gears to get the speed you desire.

My '11 Versys did not like to be below 4000 RPMs in 4th through 6th gears.

I'm also guessing that if you tried to find the top speed of the motorcycle with your gearing change, you will find that it is now in 4th gear, and once you hit that top speed and shift into 6th the bike will actually slow down because it doesn't have enough power against the wind drag to go any faster.
Ah, okay! So I was afraid my hubris against the almighty engineers would be my undoing. But as a solution, I am thinking that the power commander may be my only option, that or go back to stock gearing. If I get the power commander than I could actually change how acceleration, cruising, and economy should be?

And yes, in 6th gear, it DOES NOT want to go back like 95 I think when I last punched it. Previously topped at 120-130
 

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Ah, okay! So I was afraid my hubris against the almighty engineers would be my undoing. But as a solution, I am thinking that the power commander may be my only option, that or go back to stock gearing. If I get the power commander than I could actually change how acceleration, cruising, and economy should be?

And yes, in 6th gear, it DOES NOT want to go back like 95 I think when I last punched it. Previously topped at 120-130
I don't think the power commander is going to help. If you don't want to go back to gearing that is closer to stock, I think you should spend the money on a dyno run before you think about a power commander. Power commander is needed to adjust the air fuel mixture when you change to high flow air filter and high flow exhaust.

The dyno run will see how your torque and HP curves have changed. You don't gain HP or torque, you just change the curve. Probably for the worse. Sorry, not the opinion you were hoping to hear.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I don't think the power commander is going to help. If you don't want to go back to gearing that is closer to stock, I think you should spend the money on a dyno run before you think about a power commander. Power commander is needed to adjust the air fuel mixture when you change to high flow air filter and high flow exhaust.

The dyno run will see how your torque and HP curves have changed. You don't gain HP or torque, you just change the curve. Probably for the worse. Sorry, not the opinion you were hoping to hear.
I'm not familiar with a dyno run, what exactly does that entail? Where would I have to go?

Appreciate the insight, I'm really not familiar with all this power modifications, I always assumed changing the sprockets was all I needed to do.
 

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I recommend getting your ECU flashed by Shoodaben in Florida. It fixes all the problems with the factory programming. It won't fix gear ratio issues but it does greatly improve engine "driveability".

My very thin understanding of the Power Commander is that it won't do much on the 2015, and unless you're really experienced with tuning engine computers it is not something to be played with.
 

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The 649cc Kawi twin loves to be in the mid to upper mid range of RPMs, thats when it shines. I agree with Fly-Sig, get the flash from Steve. This is more refined and specific than Power Commander. I do a lot of highway and that combined with a 15 front/44 rear works for me. Any more on the gearing and youre really working that clutch to get going and low speed jockeying becomes a little iffy.
 

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Hello all. I have a 2015 Versys 650 LT.

This year, I changed my stock sprockets to be almost all centered around cruising, top end, high MPG, and long riding. So I went down as much as I could in the rear, and up as much as I could in the front. It ended up being something like down 13 rear, up 3 or 4 in the front I think.

NOW, before everyone says "wow, that's such a crazy change" I have to say, that I had previously given it a try where I went only slightly lower, rather than the max I could. And it just wasn't the difference I wanted. I pretty much ONLY do highway miles, and when I'm at 80 mph, I don't want to be at 6K vibrating as all get out. So I'm very pleased with the end result so far, because the RPMs are wayyy lower and make it more comfortable to ride.

DOWNSIDES: There is two huge downsides occurring however.
1. The speed calibration. It is showing as 10 miles under my actual limit. So I have to do some math to make sure I'm "going the speed limit" ;)
2. The MPG has gone unacceptably low. I went from 48-50 MPG to now about 35 MPG. At first I chalked this up to punching the bike when I got it back from the shop, just to see it's new limits. And that's not the issue, I have ridden it in the most Eco friendly riding style, and I can not for the life of me pass 38 MPG.

So talking with a friend of mine, he recommend the solution to both of these downsides would be to get a DynoJet Power Commander. I wanted to probe the V650 community and get everyone's thoughts on that. If I went that route, I could even set up different maps for riding conditions. Highway, sport, off road, etc. He also mentioned something about the Power Commander even controlling the ABS module, which I wasn't sure about either, but this guy's ridden way longer and is a mechanic. So what do I know? If it could control the ABS module, than I could remove my ABS breaker switch that I keep in the right outlet on the panel, and put a system in place to rapidly change between Power Commander Maps.

What are your thoughts on these? Any advice is appreciated!
I wont say "wow, that's such a crazy change" but I will say "wow, that's an EXTREME change".
I have changed gearing on every bike I have owned in the past 30 years though in the opposite direction for quicker acceleration. Its not uncommon to change +/- 1 tooth in the front OR +/- 2-3 on the rear but usually not both (I have heard of it being done, but that is an extreme case). The final drive ratio of changing 1 tooth on the front is about equivalent to 2.5 teeth on the rear, I'll let you do the math to see how far from stock you have moved things.:eek:
You have to remember that this engine is 650cc and it is designed to rev, the final drive gearing was designated to give you a decent mix of city and highway drivability. When you change gearing one way or the other you start compromising the drivability in some aspect. A smaller motor can only do so much.
With the gearing you describe, I cant imagine how hard it must be to take off from a stop light or ride in traffic without severely abusing your clutch, is it starting to slip or fade yet?
A dyno tune or ECU flash isn't going to do anything to fix such an extreme sprocket change, they are used to change fueling, your fueling didn't change, your final drive ratio did.
If your speedometer or odometer are out of calibration now, you are going to need a speedo healer to fix that.
 

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Why not try a moderate gearing change instead of just giving up and going back to stock? I have 16t front and 45t rear, cruising at 70-75 with loaded side and top cases has the bike sitting under 6000 rpm and getting 55mpg average, with only a lightly loaded topcase 60mpg is guaranteed. I am loving this recent change, its comfortable to sit on the highway as needed, and power is still there in lower gears and higher revs as needed.

I also have the Shoodabeen flash from Steve, the hype on it is real.

A slightly smaller rear like 44 or 43 could be perfect for your goal to cruise around 80 all the time. Use gearingcommander.com to preview the RPM level of any planned changes
 

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The 649cc Kawi twin loves to be in the mid to upper mid range of RPMs, thats when it shines. I agree with Fly-Sig, get the flash from Steve. This is more refined and specific than Power Commander. I do a lot of highway and that combined with a 15 front/44 rear works for me. Any more on the gearing and youre really working that clutch to get going and low speed jockeying becomes a little iffy.
Same here: 44 tooth rear sprocket with OEM front sprocket. This results in nice smooth touring RPMs with speedometer indications that are dead on as per GPS.
 

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I changed the front sprocket to a 16 tooth, left the rear untouched . The speedo is right on. With the Shoodabeen flash, I find the engine responsiveness is perfect, pulls fine without having to row the shifter, peppy at all speeds, and it's very happy on the highway. Gas mileage in the mid to high 50's.
 

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I'm Steve from Shoodaben. and I'm here to tell you that the advise you've gotten here is 110% correct. You're not ever in a milion years going to fix what you've done with tuning. Heck, you'ld need to double your displacement to pull the gearing you've installed, and even then it would probably be a dog. The reason is exactly what was stated ^^^ about being on a 10 speed bike. Your gearing now is so high, you need a BUNCH more torque to move the bike, so you're gagging the throttle to do it. The result is terrible fuel economy. The only thing that's going to fix this - the ONLY thing - is to return much closer to the stock gearing. Maybe 15/43 instead of 46, or maybe 16/45 ... but that's about as far as you ought to go and expect it to not bite into the fuel economy. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I work off facts, not feels. HTH, Steve
 

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On a ride a week or so ago (on my '15 V650LT) I got mid-50s mpgUS, and my gearing is 15/46, as delivered.

FYI - I have TWO V650s now, and among the THREE V650s I've had (all bought NEW - an '08, an '09 and the '15), I have put on 178,767 MILES as of RIGHT NOW, and as 'long-timers' on the Forum can tell you - I get exemplary gas-mileage. I ride dirt as well as highway, at speeds similar to what you do, and can't even IMAGINE re-gearing ANY AMOUNT, much less the EXTREME you've done.

Good luck.:rolleyes:
 

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where are you reading this mpg?
if it's the dashboard, then no wonder!

you go from 46/15 (3.06 turn of the front) to 33/19 (1.73 turn of the front) per turn of the wheel.
That's 0.566 of the original.. (Way more than just 10mph lower).
When you ride 80mph for real, it would indicate 45.3 mph.
When you had 50mpg it would indicate 28.3mpg.

So there is something wrong, your details don't add up.

Other than that, the engine must work harder to fight wind. it like constantly climbing hills in 6th gear when you should be in 4th or 3rd... It's not burning efficiently, the piston has not moved much and the eploding mix is already cooling. So you open throttle more, thus it's like you are constantly heavy on the throttle. Low mpg.
 

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Hello all. I have a 2015 Versys 650 LT.

This year, I changed my stock sprockets to be almost all centered around cruising, top end, high MPG, and long riding. So I went down as much as I could in the rear, and up as much as I could in the front. It ended up being something like down 13 rear, up 3 or 4 in the front I think.
Enough with all this nonsense! Find out what your sprockets are exactly, and correct your gearing to a reasonable ratio.

Stock is 15/46... 16T is the largest possible countershaft sprocket.
 

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My Versys doesn't like to lug, it needs to rev. I can't imagine having your gearing. That's gotta be damn near unrideable at anything less than freeway speeds.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I'm Steve from Shoodaben. and I'm here to tell you that the advise you've gotten here is 110% correct. You're not ever in a milion years going to fix what you've done with tuning. Heck, you'ld need to double your displacement to pull the gearing you've installed, and even then it would probably be a dog. The reason is exactly what was stated ^^^ about being on a 10 speed bike. Your gearing now is so high, you need a BUNCH more torque to move the bike, so you're gagging the throttle to do it. The result is terrible fuel economy. The only thing that's going to fix this - the ONLY thing - is to return much closer to the stock gearing. Maybe 15/43 instead of 46, or maybe 16/45 ... but that's about as far as you ought to go and expect it to not bite into the fuel economy. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I work off facts, not feels. HTH, Steve
Hey Steve, good to hear from you, seems you're a popular and reputable guy. I might have to make the trip from NC to Florida for a few days just to get a flash or something. SO then if returning closer to stock is what I need to do. What gearing is the absolute best for MPG and long distance travel? And after that, what else can I do? What exact does a ECU flash provided by you do, and what about things like power commanders and what not?

Besides that, rather than spending all this money on fixing my bike to turn into something I want, would I be better off just selling it and upgrading (been thinking about upgrading for a long time) to something like a R1200GS or a Tiger 1200?
 

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Hey Steve, good to hear from you, seems you're a popular and reputable guy. I might have to make the trip from NC to Florida for a few days just to get a flash or something. SO then if returning closer to stock is what I need to do. What gearing is the absolute best for MPG and long distance travel? And after that, what else can I do? What exact does a ECU flash provided by you do, and what about things like power commanders and what not?

Besides that, rather than spending all this money on fixing my bike to turn into something I want, would I be better off just selling it and upgrading (been thinking about upgrading for a long time) to something like a R1200GS or a Tiger 1200?
Your not going to get better fuel economy on those bikes than you can get with the V650 returned to stock or close to stock gearing.
 

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Flashing tuning , V650 , lots of info, I posted a write up about pc.s booster plugs and flashing there.
Apparently some don't agree with being helpful, anything you post, think twice about it, after 7 days only a mod can edit. I am deeply troubled by what is happening on this forum, what is trending in second place is
Kawasaki ER-6C, that's C as in Custom
Other Motorcycle Make and Model Discussion * go to ADV-------er
Yes in the moderator feedback I questioned this, advertising to go to another forum, no action was taken so I edited out the red. But heaven forbid, mention anything about Shoodaben Engineering and I get a reported post, no link there , a huge contributor to this forum. Well that troubles me!!
 
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