Another battery thread... wanting to replace my Shorai

403 Views 6 Replies 5 Participants Last post by TowerMan, 27 d ago

2tallformybike

Discussion Starter · 1 mo ago

I've had a Shorai for about 2 years now and it's performed well so far. I've put about 18-20,000 miles on it without really much of an issue. On cold days it sounds like it doesn't want to start sometimes which always gives me that sinking feeling in my gut when I'm in remote areas, but it's always started. What I don't like about the battery is the need for a specific charger. The Shorai charger is to bulky to want to pack and travel with and it feels kinda flimsy, not something I'd really want to tote across the country. Also a little frustrating that the charger comes with pretty short cables and there's no SAE adapter or any other adapter so if you want a longer charging cable, you have to buy their extension. Also I guess the Shorai battery I have doesn't have an internal battery management system.

It hasn't given me any issues but I'm tired of the occasional weak starts on cold days. I always get a little anxious when I'm far from help or in areas with zero cell or GPS coverage and it's just not something I want to have to think about anymore. I also would like something I could possible jump if needed or at minimum find a compatible charger for on the road if needed.

I really don't want to go back to a lead based battery. If I want to stay with a light weight battery, its it worth the money to toss the Shorai (recycle) and swap it for something with a BMS and a restart/self jump feature? For some reason I thought more companies made lithium batteries with the jump start/reset feature but the only one I'm seeing is the Antigravity ATX.

Looking for suggestions. Toss (recycle) the Shorai, keep the Shorai, toss the 650 and just travel on a bicycle so I never have to worry about batteries again....

Also curious if anyone has tried to jump a lithium motorcycle battery, either from another vehicle or one of those portable jump starters... I carry a small air pump when I travel and several portable battery banks. I've never carried one of those portable jump boxes because I'm not sure if they'll work on a Li battery.

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onewizard

· #2 · 1 mo ago

recent thread, lots of info. As to weight, never ever considered it. It comes down to $$$, my OEM AGM battery lasted 6 plus years. I just replaced it with the same Yuasa battery, consider it isn't convemient, but I have bump started my 2015, using about 3rd gear. Best read the many posts in that thread, also view the video at Fortnine.

Battery: Noco NLP14 Lithium

Battery: Noco NLP14 Lithium Summary: Good electrical performance. Two installation concerns that may or may not be significant. Yuasa AGM battery died of natural causes. Decided to try lithium. Noco is a brand known mainly for battery chargers. Their line of lithium batteries is a new...

www.kawasakiversys.com

Battery: Noco NLP14 Lithium

www.kawasakiversys.com

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voyajer73

· #3 · 1 mo ago

2tallformybike said:
Looking for suggestions. Toss (recycle) the Shorai, keep the Shorai, toss the 650 and just travel on a bicycle so I never have to worry about batteries again....

I read the description for the "Dedicated Shorai LFX Charger", and I got the impression that it uses a JST-XH type connector to "balance" the battery. In this case, any hobby charger can be used to service the battery. For example ToolkitRC M7 (I use ISDT Q6). These chargers allow you to use any power source with a voltage from 7 to 28 volts DC. That is, you can charge the motorcycle battery from the on-board network of a car, truck, or even from a power bank that has the "power delivery" function (using a trigger). To work from the industrial power grid, you can use a power supply unit from a laptop (they are inexpensive, powerful and compact).
As a bonus, you can charge batteries of almost any other type.

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2tallformybike

Discussion Starter · #4 · 29 d ago

voyajer73 said:
I read the description for the "Dedicated Shorai LFX Charger", and I got the impression that it uses a JST-XH type connector to "balance" the battery. In this case, any hobby charger can be used to service the battery. For example ToolkitRC M7 (I use ISDT Q6). These chargers allow you to use any power source with a voltage from 7 to 28 volts DC. That is, you can charge the motorcycle battery from the on-board network of a car, truck, or even from a power bank that has the "power delivery" function (using a trigger). To work from the industrial power grid, you can use a power supply unit from a laptop (they are inexpensive, powerful and compact).
As a bonus, you can charge batteries of almost any other type.

Did a little googling and the cables for that charger look similar to the Shorai a charger.

I don't think I'll actually do this but when you brought up the PD function on power banks it got me wondering. Portable power banks with power delivery are fairly affordable now and you can get capacities north of 50,000 mAh. Would a 50,000 mAh, 65w power bank be enough to top up a battery, lithium or otherwise, if it wasn't completely dead but didn't have quite enough power to crank the engine? Carrying a power bank of that size + the needed charging adapter would kinda defeat the purpose of switching to a light weight battery in the first place, more just curious if it would technically be possible.

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voyajer73

· #5 · 28 d ago (Edited)

2tallformybike said:
I don't think I'll actually do this but when you brought up the PD function on power banks it got me wondering. Portable power banks with power delivery are fairly affordable now and you can get capacities north of 50,000 mAh. Would a 50,000 mAh, 65w power bank be enough to top up a battery, lithium or otherwise, if it wasn't completely dead but didn't have quite enough power to crank the engine? Carrying a power bank of that size + the needed charging adapter would kinda defeat the purpose of switching to a light weight battery in the first place, more just curious if it would technically be possible.

The standard battery V650 (new) has a capacity of about 12k mAh. That is, a 50k mAh power bank has an energy reserve that is equal to or exceeds the energy reserve in a standard battery(It is necessary to transfer in watt-hours). And it is guaranteed to be able to "revive" it (as well as heat it up, which is important for LiPo batteries). I had a case when with the help of such a device and three or four "hobby" batteries with a capacity of only 1300 mAh each, I was able to "revive" my car's battery with a capacity of 70k mAh in the winter. Which was more than 10 years old. And after that start my diesel engine.
But the main idea is not to carry a power bank with you. As far as I understand, the Shorai battery does not have a built-in BMS or balancer. And restoring the energy reserve of such a battery from the motorcycle alternator is not quite correct, without "balancing" the battery elements. This COULD cause cold engine starting problems over time.
And the use of the specified charging device will allow correct and controlled recovery of the energy supply from almost any source of electricity that is nearby. And not only from the industrial power grid.
And you can try to improve the Shoray battery by adding a BMS module to it (such a 100A 4C module costs about $4). This MAY improve the way the motorcycle alternator charges the battery. And it CAN improve its performance and extend its life.
But that's not for sure

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SteveJ

· #6 · 28 d ago

Has anyone taken a temperature reading in the battery area when underway, particularly in warm to hot weather? From what I see on interwebs most LFP lithium batteries don't like to be charged over 113 to 120* F. I gotta think it is hotter than that where the battery sits, effectively shortening it's life significantly. At this time in the evolution of lithium batteries I don't think they are ready for this kind of service.

While not owning any lithium batteries in service on a motor vehicle I have investigated them quite thoroughly for possible install as house batteries for our Weck All Creation vehicle. I ultimately decided against them and installed AGM. We dry camp a lot and the lithiums would work quite a bit better with our solar setup but I would have to spend around a grand(US$) for an updated inverter charger and another $200 +/- for a DC to DC charger for the alternator over and above the cost of the batteries. So I passed. There was more to it but I tried to keep this diatribe brief.

Have fun and ride focused.

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TowerMan

· #7 · 27 d ago

Shorai Li batteries just do not like cold weather - You have to wake them up by turning them on / start draining them for 30 Sec Then hit the start button

Se this video @ 4:03 for info -

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