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That video is typical of the paranoia prevalent today. "Greenunism"- hilarious. What a load of crap. In fact, I almost crapped my pants laughing.
 

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if the world is going to survived we have to move away from fossil fuels to renewables. there just is no other answer because the population is exploding, and resources are getting more scarce. thats just the way it is. check the pictures of China and India taken from space... huge clouds of pollution cover them. it all goes somewhere. here in Alaska we get soot from Russia, 5-6000 miles away.

I remember seeing wind farms in the Altamont in the '70s. pretty sure theres more now. I know there are some huge solar farms in SoCal because I've seen those too. the biggest oil wildcat of all time, T Boon Pickens moved to renewables a decade ago. obviously gasoline will be with us for quite a while but we need to get real about whats going on. and somebody has to do it. somebody has to lead the way. it used to be the USA. I like to think we can and will.

and if you are younger than about 60-65 you probably have no idea how polluted the good 'ol USA was in the 60s. by the late 70s it was better, but we were dragged kicking and screaming into it. I have stories about those days, if you don't..... be glad.
 

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'reason to hate other americans'? i sure dont take it that way. its nothing more that a difference of opinion and a discussion point as far as i am concerned. we are certainly doing that and thats always OK.
That was absolutely not directed at anyone on this forum - more a broader view of something that frustrates me greatly about the US. I feel like we've been divided and conquered.

also, i dont think anyone here is 'mad' at anyone over this either. seems there is an over-sensitivity regarding anyone commenting about newer technology professing to be greener. i agree with most on here; they are not as 'green' as stated by a long shot, BUT, they are a step in a good direction that we need to take....

lets lose the sensitivity and just discuss it. opinions are fine too. we all have those!! ....
Absolutely - as I said in an earlier comment, I'm not taking anything personally here. Apologies to anyone who thought I was, or that I was directing anything personally at them.
 

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Im an old guy myself like a lot of the grumps here moaning about electric cars and saving the planet by becoming vegan. First off ,I love my gas powered motorcycle and the enjoyment from it. For me its "righteous",for lack of a better word.And I also have an electric bicycle,what an awesome technology. Zero problems,little maintenence. I was one of the first here 4 years ago,now there are lots.This is how I get around the city, only way to go here in a big center full of half baked in a hurry drivers. Dont ride my Versys in the city much,too dangerous. We have one motorbike accident a day for the warm months,lots of good ones in the organ donor category. Aside from the idea of cleaning up the crappy air we breath,theres a simple reason why electric vehicles are going to become the norm....its a better technology! Im sorry but if you do some research you will see why all the cars are headed that way. Cant see motorcycles making sense for a while because of the range but rechargeable battery tech is the game of the century right now. It will be the next wave and will even revolutionize our power grids. Wont need to dam rivers for instance.And Hawkerjet,look up "Harbour Air Seaplanes' in Vancouver. They are converting their short range fleet to electric motors. Save money on fuel, clean up some air, dont worry about stalling from bird strikes...... Max. torque @ any RPM,very reliable and simple motors.And as far as vegans, I admire our young people for wanting to make a change. For me ,Ive dabbled in it.My first job was on the "Kill" floor of Canada Packers in Toronto killing cows. Lasted two days. I challenge anyone who eats animals to see what those places are like. You will not want to eat flesh for a while, the smell of fear and death will not leave you. Ive personally killed animals to eat,Im okay with that. With respect. So the world is changing and were a bunch of old guys,we dont like change. I like that our young people are getting on top of things, theres alot of mess to clean up. Sorry to add to a hijacked thread!
 

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Discussion Starter #28
One of my dream projects is taking something like a zx6 and converting it to electric.

And an old 4x4. 4 150ph wheel motors running nearly silently across a field of baby heads would be so cool, bit to mention skid steering through a mud pit, running the Rubicon and Fordyce...

I actually really like electric vehicle tech.
 

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if the world is going to survived we have to move away from fossil fuels to renewables. there just is no other answer because the population is exploding, and resources are getting more scarce. thats just the way it is. check the pictures of China and India taken from space... huge clouds of pollution cover them. it all goes somewhere. here in Alaska we get soot from Russia, 5-6000 miles away.

I remember seeing wind farms in the Altamont in the '70s. pretty sure theres more now. I know there are some huge solar farms in SoCal because I've seen those too. the biggest oil wildcat of all time, T Boon Pickens moved to renewables a decade ago. obviously gasoline will be with us for quite a while but we need to get real about whats going on. and somebody has to do it. somebody has to lead the way. it used to be the USA. I like to think we can and will.
Oil is no longer fashionable in large part to the left's attack on corporations like "Big Oil." Before you throw out the baby with the bath water one needs to consider how many products we use every day that come from oil.

What really irks me is how the media, academia, and some politicians are playing the fear card saying things like, "the world is going to end in 12 years" if we don't get rid of fossil fuels right now. Really?

The cleanest source of energy is Nuclear but as soon as someone even mentions the "N" word they are immediately attacked showing pictures of 3 mile island and Chernobyl. The fact is modern nuclear plants are nothing like the plants from the 60's. They produce far less nuclear waist and have virtually no chance of the dreaded melt down. Unfortunately they have been branded as evil just like fossil fuels.

If we do eventually go electric for all vehicles the amount of toxic waste from all the spent batteries will be orders of magnitude greater than
anything that nuclear plants would produce.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
If we do eventually go electric for all vehicles the amount of toxic waste from all the spent batteries will be orders of magnitude greater than

anything that nuclear plants would produce.
Same goes for oil, BTW. Current battery tech is seriously scary stuff when end of life comes into play. That may not be a problem as usage increases and the technology is improved and refined, but for now... They're terrible for a number of reasons.
 

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What really irks me is how the media, academia, and some politicians are playing the fear card saying things like, "the world is going to end in 12 years" if we don't get rid of fossil fuels right now.
The only meaningful statements I give credit to are those made by real scientists, not internet experts or (especially) politicians.

Fear is the weapon used by those who have something to gain- politicians of all stripes. Scientists use facts.

There are nothing scientists like better than to debunk another scientist's theory- it happens all the time. So if 95% of scientists agree that our behaviour is accelerating change, I trust their opinions and no others. Three hundred years of industrial-scale pollution has to affect the world. Deniers use the excuse to do nothing, continue on polluting. It is a profit-driven theory with a laissez-faire attitude.
 

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Discussion Starter #32
The only meaningful statements I give credit to are those made by real scientists, not internet experts or (especially) politicians.



Fear is the weapon used by those who have something to gain- politicians of all stripes. Scientists use facts.



There are nothing scientists like better than to debunk another scientist's theory- it happens all the time. So if 95% of scientists agree that our behaviour is accelerating change, I trust their opinions and no others. Three hundred years of industrial-scale pollution has to affect the world. Deniers use the excuse to do nothing, continue on polluting. It is a profit-driven theory with a laissez-faire attitude.
The problem with your reasoning is with the way science is funded. Look into it. I have neither the time nor the desire to continue this discussion, so go look into it yourself.

Try to not be biased. It isn't easy. Good luck.
 

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I first heard the phrase "global warming tend" from the chief oil field geophysicist on Alaska's North Slope (the oil patch). it was starting to affect exploration time because you simply can't drive on the tundra when it thaws. this was in the 80's, and he said it looks like something has changed the cycle. the change from glacial to interglacial is non-linear, but they had the pattern figured out. we should have gotten colder in the cycle but we didn't. those of you that went to school in the 60s-70s should remember the impending cooling period. it never came.... we blew right through it. anyway, Dr John the geophysicist said we need another decade of data to be sure. well, that was 30 years ago, and it's gotten warmer, and its accelerating. I've lived in AK almost all if my 69 years. it is a different place, especially the last 15 years or so.

as for nuclear... initially they said nuke power would be so cheap that it wouldn't be worth the trouble to meter it. the reality is that it is so expensive you can't pay off the price of the plant in it's lifetime.

and, these are some of the isotopes formed in nuclear reactors: uranium-234 (half-life 245 thousand years), neptunium-237 (2.144 million years), plutonium-238 (87.7 years) and americium-241 (432 years), and californium (half-life of 898 years for Cf-251).

it takes 10 half lives to render nuclear isotopes "harmless".... do the math. where and how do you store that crap for endless generations?
 
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....where and how do you store that crap (nuclear waste) for endless generations?
Here in Ontario, we have the Bruce Nuclear Power, the 2nd largest in the world. It is located on the shore of Lake Huron, one of the five Great Lakes. They had to ship many tons of heavy waste, spent fuel rods, etc. to an overseas 'facility' because no place in North America was willing to accept it.

A huge public backlash against shipping through the lakes and St Lawrence Seaway to the ocean. What could possibly go wrong? There have only been a couple of thousand shipwrecks on those waters.

Present-day: a very large building is filled with 'low-grade' waste that must be contained. Solution: bury them 680 meters underground near the lake in the same drainage basin.

Leakage? ..meh, it might be a century or more to be a problem and we'll all be dead by then.

Not a good solution, but solutions must be found, the waste will continue to be produced.

Difficult to understand how governments license nuclear facilities that cannot deal with the resultant waste. And yet, the Bruce has added seven more reactors since the first was built.

It's also difficult to argue with the fact that 30% of our electricity is produced there. Plus, radioactive waste aside (like that doesn't matter?), nuclear is clean energy. Except for the mining of uranium, transporting it, processing it, all the concrete and steel, speciality metals...

The largest problem that we face sustaining the current growth rate is overpopulation. Planet earth would be much better off with 30% less population. That's harsh but undeniable.

I'll shut up now. You're welcome.:wink2:
 

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Oil is no longer fashionable in large part to the left's attack on corporations like "Big Oil." Before you throw out the baby with the bath water one needs to consider how many products we use every day that come from oil.
This doesn't really parse, for me - are you suggesting that the left is somehow trying to outlaw all petroleum products? I will say, plastics, while they have benefitted us in many ways, have been an unmitigated environmental disaster. Still, I've never seen anybody saying we should outlaw tires, or asphalt.

The cleanest source of energy is Nuclear but as soon as someone even mentions the "N" word they are immediately attacked showing pictures of 3 mile island and Chernobyl. The fact is modern nuclear plants are nothing like the plants from the 60's. They produce far less nuclear waist and have virtually no chance of the dreaded melt down. Unfortunately they have been branded as evil just like fossil fuels.

If we do eventually go electric for all vehicles the amount of toxic waste from all the spent batteries will be orders of magnitude greater than
anything that nuclear plants would produce.
Bear in mind, most of the lasting "attacks" on nuclear power plant construction has come from competing energy sectors, specifically coal and oil. I do think it's interesting that you left out Fukushima, though.

With regards to batteries, yeah, they're a problem. However, a ton of VC money is being poured into battery tech; I'm hopeful that the next 5-10 years will provide a breakthrough, and give us safe, long lasting batteries that can be cleanly disposed of. That will be the step that really gets us off fossil fuels, and onto renewables.

Of course, there will be tons of political pushback against that, as coal and oil don't want to lose any of their market share.
 

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just remember that we had an oil boom under Obama. we became the worlds biggest producer, and oil products became our number 1 export (can't shell crude). gasoline was under 2 dollars a gallon all through the country. every leftie I know realizes that oil is still with us and will continue. it is however, time to move on. there is no reason to dig coal... gas is cleaner and cheaper, and very very abundant due to same technology that brought the boom.

as for scientists making stuff up to keep funding.... thats a troll. like I said, I first heard of global warming from the main geophysicist in the AK oil industry. they were watching it because it affects logistics and exploration. it was only a few days worth in the 80's when that discussion took place. it's at least a month of exploration time lost since then. maybe more, I've been out of that loop for too long
 
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