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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I reside in Indiana, have a conceal-carry permit and carry sometimes on the road depending on the states I am traveling through. As many here know, I work in film. My carry Is primarily for 4-legged dangers like mountain lions, coyotes, wolves, moose, bear (our primary defense here is bear spray. It works.), fisher cats, and snakes when we run across aggressive venomous ones. (I’ve been bitten twice by venomous snakes. It‘s highly overrated.) I also carry while fly fishing out west. I have used my gun to protect myself or crew from these beasties a few times, but never have experienced a criminal encounter. Was glad I had one, but am not a flaming second amendment guy. Just an ordinary guy who plays in dangerous sandboxes some days.

My question is this: have you ever been in a situation while riding where you either 1.) felt you needed to use or have used your gun, or 2.) you were in a situation where you wished you had a gun but didn’t have one? I’m just curious about situations, not details.

I am asking is not to be controversial, but to try and understand “real world” versus “theoretical“ situations that may warrant carrying a gun in real life out there. While we can think of many hypothetical situations, how many are actually realistic or likely, and of the ones that are Indeed likely, would a gun escalate a situation or cause more trouble than it’s worth?

We are dealing with this question in my company right now.

🤔
 

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Here is my philosophy and what I have witnessed among those who carry.

I personally avoid being a potential victim by using situational awareness and discernment and steer clear of those potential danger zones.

I have characterized concealed carry people into a few categories.

The fearful.
The prepared
The brave
The emboldened

They all have their reasons, and can all be equally trained, proficient, prepared, and discrete.

Personally, I don't like to be around the fearful, or the emboldened if I know they carry. They are more likely to escalate a situation.

Carrying is like having insurance on your bike. You hope you never need it, and you go out of your way through preparedness, precautions, situational awareness, and skill to not put you or your motorcycle in harms way.

Not sure if this is what you are looking for, or specific examples.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Here is my philosophy and what I have witnessed among those who carry.

I personally avoid being a potential victim by using situational awareness and discernment and steer clear of those potential danger zones.

I have characterized concealed carry people into a few categories.

The fearful.
The prepared
The brave
The emboldened

They all have their reasons, and can all be equally trained, proficient, prepared, and discrete.

Personally, I don't like to be around the fearful, or the emboldened if I know they carry. They are more likely to escalate a situation.

Carrying is like having insurance on your bike. You hope you never need it, and you go out of your way through preparedness, precautions, situational awareness, and skill to not put you or your motorcycle in harms way.

Not sure if this is what you are looking for, or specific examples.
Well said. Exactly what I’m looking for. I’m highly trained and extremely discreet, but am focused on critters not criminals. I like your breakdown. Thank you so much!
 

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We can't get 'carry-permits' in Canada, but I've spent a LOT of time in 'bear country' while hunting, and I SURE WOULD have carried IF I was allowed.

FWIW - I was #2 in IHMSA Canadian Championship, four gun, back in '88 shooting .44 mag and 7mm/223.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Speaking of Canadians, guns and bears...

My family owns a sizable ranch in northern Montana around the Canadian border. Myself and 3 others, two of which being Canucks from Quebec but quite familiar with the territory, went up to record the sounds of the forest in September several years ago. We wanted to capture the shoulder season before the snows hit. We each had a GS1200, our equipment and looked forward to a pleasant day in the forest.

Our plan was to follow old logging roads in then break to the side of a small stream for about 7 miles in to an area the loggers described as “magical.” We planned on getting in fairly early, then recording for about 4 hours before heading out. Magical or not, we knew this was bear and mountain lion country. We were prepared in the event of an encounter. As far as beauty was concerned, we were not disappointed once we reached the “spot,” as we called it. It was perfectly verdant and truly spectacular. We set up and were recording in minutes.

We were keenly aware we were no longer the top of the food chain here - a palpable feeling each of us shared. Noting this, we had bear spray, rifles and backup pistols. I carry a S&W .460 magnum as my backup up there - a horrible gun to shoot, but will kill any Buick at 100 yards. Bears play much closer than that and move much faster too. The others carry a minimum of .44 Mags and .454 Casull’s. We don’t carry BB guns although people talk about carrying 10mm’s for bear. Color me dubious. In addition to painful-to-shoot revolvers, we also carry .375 H&H’s, even more painful to shoot, when we need reach out and touch something in brown bear country. However all of these are only as good as your ability to grab them, aim them and shoot them. Bears move fast. Bears are funny that way. They don’t really care his big your gun is - you’d better be faster and more accurate than they are. You likely aren’t. Despite being well armed, we never expected to need our weapons. We never had needed them before. Nice to have that sense of comfort if we did though.

Anyway, we heard then spotted a black bear cub with no mamma bear in sight while recording - not comforting. Suddenly, out of nowhere comes mamma charging - and she was both pissed and fast! Her first charge was not a bluff - and bear spray was everywhere! Our eyes burnt for a week after. However, mamma bear went running off just like the cans of bear spray promised. We realized she was still likely near and not in a good mood. We also realized 2 of our 5 bear spray canisters had failed - far less comforting now.

Our smarter selves decided to pack up and get out after our unfortunate encounter. We had about an hour of recording capture - good enough. Until that day, I thought our bikes could move faster than bears in a forest. I was wrong. On our way out, we thought we were being tracked by a black bear - likely the one we encountered earlier. Once again, we were wrong. It was then that I caught a glimpse of a brown bear following us. Holy shit! What took us about an hour to get into, took three hours getting out as we rode from safe spot to safe spot, stopping and evaluating before continuing onto the next. The bear was always close by. We heard it but could not see it. It was following and haunting us. Each time we stopped, we fired cannon-like shots of our .375’s in the direction of the sound to scare it. The sound stopped but always returned. We continued hearing it at every stop. It was always there. We still couldn’t see it though. It was taunting us. At one point I heard a shot ring out as one of my guys took down a mountain lion moving in behind us and eliminated the threat. The problem is none of this was fiction. It was all too real and we were all terrified. This was the scariest experience of my career and it changed me and he we record in the wild. We eventually made it out but That day tested the limits of the bikes and ourselves in uncomfortable ways.

That day I learned many things; the first being that control is merely an illusion. Mike Tyson once said everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. I think he may be onto something. Control is only possible when uncertainty isn’t present. Uncertainty is always present. We no longer had control and knew it - despite being armed to the hilt. We were someplace we should not have been - or at least weren’t the final word. If you really want to find out how much of a man you REALLY are, take the man you THINK you are to the “spot”. I believe you’ll discover the two are quite different.

I’m glad we were armed. Because of that, only a mountain lion died that day and eight bitching eyeballs were watering for a week after. Had we not been armed, the outcome would have most certainly been different - and few if any would have known where we were to complete the story.

My point in all of this is that the wildlife we encountered was relatively predictable. We know their behaviors well and can be prepared to defend ourselves against it. But it seems as if humans are becoming far less predictable in ways we don’t understand - and that is scarier to me in many ways. The reason I started this thread was to separate the real from imagined threats out there. The truth is I haven’t really heard any real situations where a gun saved the day or made things better, although they may create some illusory sense of a degree of control that may be comforting to some.
 

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I've never been in a situation while riding where the firearm was an issue, but about 15 years ago while leaving a store, a guy started walking up to 2 young girls and tried to engage them. I stopped and got ready to draw my firearm in case "something" happened. When the guy looked at me standing there with my right hand holding the edge of my shirt, he said "never mind" and walked back to the dark corner he had come from.

Whether it was just me standing there or the way I looked that seemed to spook him I'll never know. I'm pretty sure he wasn't going to ask the girls for directions though.
 

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Out riding in eastern Washington one time (headed home from a rally) I had a moron in a cage attempt to kill me, he passed me and pulled in front of me at 75 mph and hit the brakes. I kept from hitting him and backed off several more car lengths to give him room.....he did it again. I was not carrying but reached inside my jacket as if I were pulling a gun. He took off like a scalded cat. I stayed with him for quite a while before my low fuel light came on. If I had had a gun he would have had a hole in the back of his car at the least.
 

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I've had a few experiences which never escalated but which I was comforted knowing I was carrying.

One particular event was instructive. The old "2 is 1, 1 is none" situation. The family was camping in very remote mountains (Henry Mountains) in southern Utah, which is touted as the least visited forest in the lower 48. Higher elevation where it was cool, but down in the lower areas it was 100+ during the day. Me, wife, 2 teens, 2 dogs. The vehicle suffered a breakdown, and I knew it would not reliably haul everybody and everything back down the rough dirt road and across the scorching desert to the nearest town. No cell phone coverage anywhere. But I believed I could nurse it down the rough road and then limp to help, as long as it was light.

After some thought, the best plan was to leave the wife with our son and dogs in the set up campsite, and I took the teen daughter. I expected to be out at least 24 hours, and we equipped for getting stranded before getting to town.

I left the wife with the one handgun I had brought. She wasn't against me carrying but she hadn't ever felt "the need" herself. Until now.

As we got close to town, a big pickup with a couple of 4 wheeler ATVs and 3 young adults went by the other direction. Later my wife told me the pickup drove into the empty campground and parked directly opposite her. She picked up the fanny pack (which in Utah means GUN) and put it on. They looked at her and drove off.

Amazingly, I found the needed part at a sketchy roadside repair garage north of Hanksville, which is middle of nowhere. I was back in camp in less than 6 hours.

Lesson learned was if the group breaks up for some reason, more than one of each critical item is needed. First aid kit, water, defensive tools, flashlight, etc.
 

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i've been riding motorcycles, on and off but mostly on since 1969,
and for more than 12 months riding at least 8 hours a day, 5 days a week...
not counting fanging through the bush on weekends.

In those million kilometres I've lost count of the car and truck drivers
that have intentionally tried to collide with me, and at least one successfully.
When I say "at least one successfully", I mean there have been collisions
that were probably intentional but because of the "benefit of "doubt"" I could not
stake my life on whether or not the act was intentional.

Anyway a concealed firearm would not have prevented those incidents.
Maybe a Benelli 12 gauge auto loader, in plain view, slung across the handlebars
would have.

So, no I have never felt the need to carry a concealed fire arm.
The only need I've had for a fire arm is for hunting rabbits
and as a soldier; and of course, in neither case concealed.

Living in Australia, not the USA may have something to do with that.

Imho, in the USA, carrying a gun in a holster plainly visible on your hip
would be a far superior option than have a concealed weapon anyway.

Your post Shibumik, begs the question, why in the heck does your weapon need to
be concealed if it's for "4-legged dangers like mountain lions, coyotes, wolves, moose, bear" ?
 

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Imho, in the USA, carrying a gun in a holster plainly visible on your hip
would be a far superior option than have a concealed weapon anyway.
I have thought about this a lot over the years. sure, it could dissuade some minor threats , but someone ready to use their weapon in a crime is going to take down the open carry person before that person knows what is happening .
 

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Discussion Starter #12
i've been riding motorcycles, on and off but mostly on since 1969,
and for more than 12 months riding at least 8 hours a day, 5 days a week...
not counting fanging through the bush on weekends.

In those million kilometres I've lost count of the car and truck drivers
that have intentionally tried to collide with me, and at least one successfully.
When I say "at least one successfully", I mean there have been collisions
that were probably intentional but because of the "benefit of "doubt"" I could not
stake my life on whether or not the act was intentional.

Anyway a concealed firearm would not have prevented those incidents.
Maybe a Benelli 12 gauge auto loader, in plain view, slung across the handlebars
would have.

So, no I have never felt the need to carry a concealed fire arm.
The only need I've had for a fire arm is for hunting rabbits
and as a soldier; and of course, in neither case concealed.

Living in Australia, not the USA may have something to do with that.

Imho, in the USA, carrying a gun in a holster plainly visible on your hip
would be a far superior option than have a concealed weapon anyway.

Your post Shibumik, begs the question, why in the heck does your weapon need to
be concealed if it's for "4-legged dangers like mountain lions, coyotes, wolves, moose, bear" ?
We don’t conceal for animals or on location so we can have quick access if needed. We also have an obscene amount of expensive equipment to watch over. When we carry otherwise we try to be discreet because here that can make us a target. Bad guys like to remove threats before they’re problematic. The American way. We carry concealed to not advertise we’re carrying. We have to get from hotel to the location with a few stops between. No sense advertising. The again, the guns we use are too big to hide easily without imprinting.

BTW, used to have a second home in Brisbane (The Gap). Sold it several years ago because I wasn't able to get there enough with my schedule. I miss it and Aussies terribly. I don’t think I ever saw a gun in Australia! I know it’s damned hard to get one there. Over here, they’re classified as vitamins!

I can’t imagine drivers in Australia trying to nail you purposely On the road. Maybe they dropped a beer or something? 🤪
 

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I have thought about this a lot over the years. sure, it could dissuade some minor threats , but someone ready to use their weapon in a crime is going to take down the open carry person before that person knows what is happening .
It could take longer for a concealed carry person to deploy their weapon.
What's your point?
 

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Discussion Starter #14

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I can’t imagine drivers in Australia trying to nail you purposely On the road. Maybe they dropped a beer or something?
And you are very perceptive on that score.
I spent 04 to 07 in QLD.

In those three years up there, I only once encountered
a truly evil driver.
Down here, they are encountered almost on a daily basis.

I have made an observation that has an astounding logic... as follows.

Down here (in Victoria) most motorcyclists are remarkably skilled.
I mean just about every second rider is a knee scraper.

Up in Townsville and Cairns where I was in QLD for 3 years, many
motorcyclists wobble around and hardly know which foot to put down,
and I don't mean just learners or "P" platers.

Imho the reason for this disparity of skill level, is that the motorcyclist
with only average skill is culled in Victoria... he doesnt have the ability
to evade the incompetent and ratbag drivers... IF he survives, he/she gives up motorcycling,
as unlike Queensland, "traffic" is too bloody dangerous... for those without exceptional skill.

On the other hand the drivers of Queensland being courteous and skilled,
make sure not to harm the more vulnerable motorcyclist, so they continue
to ride their bikes.
 

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We don’t carry for human threats.
Not "We"... You.
Anyway Shibumik, I was answering "Twowheeledaddict" (let's just call him "the Addict" for short) post"
"someone ready to use their weapon in a crime is going to take down the open carry person before that person knows what is happening ."
 

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Discussion Starter #17
And you are very perceptive on that score.
I spent 04 to 07 in QLD.

In those three years up there, I only once encountered
a truly evil driver.
Down here, they are encountered almost on a daily basis.

I have made an observation that has an astounding logic... as follows.

Down here (in Victoria) most motorcyclists are remarkably skilled.
I mean just about every second rider is a knee scraper.

Up in Townsville and Cairns where I was in QLD for 3 years, many
motorcyclists wobble around and hardly know which foot to put down,
and I don't mean just learners or "P" platers.

Imho the reason for this disparity of skill level, is that the motorcyclist
with only average skill is culled in Victoria... he doesnt have the ability
to evade the incompetent and ratbag drivers... IF he survives, he/she gives up motorcycling,
as unlike Queensland, "traffic" is too bloody dangerous... for those without exceptional skill.

On the other hand the drivers of Queensland being courteous and skilled,
make sure not to harm the more vulnerable motorcyclist, so they continue
to ride their bikes.
The Aussies I know are all amazing people - fair dinkum. Knew Steve Irwin well. Lots of passion in Australia. Love that. Saw two guys get in a bar fight and beat the shit out of each other in Alice Springs - then start laughing and bought each other beer! Seriously! Never had a bike there. Had my trusty Land Cruiser and a Ute. Never did Victoria much other than Melbourne. Great city. Great people. But no bike there.

Spent a bit of time in Cairns. Headed up from the Whitsundays on a whim on my sailboat. Again, lots of fun. Beautiful. However, everything in Australia wants to kill you. Why not drivers too?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Not "We"... You.
Anyway Shibumik, I was answering "Twowheeledaddict" (let's just call him "the Addict" for short) post"
"someone ready to use their weapon in a crime is going to take down the open carry person before that person knows what is happening ."
No, “we.” “We” are a film crew of 6 to 20 people. I don’t carry personally. I don’t think any of us do. I only carry for work. We do wildlife and remote cinematography.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Not "We"... You.
Anyway Shibumik, I was answering "Twowheeledaddict" (let's just call him "the Addict" for short) post"
"someone ready to use their weapon in a crime is going to take down the open carry person before that person knows what is happening ."
Sorry about that. Didn’t see that. Oh well, back to work. Have a great day,
 

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The Aussies I know are all amazing people - fair dinkum. Knew Steve Irwin well. Lots of passion in Australia. Love that. Saw two guys get in a bar fight and beat the shit out of each other in Alice Springs - then start laughing and bought each other beer! Seriously! Never had a bike there. Had my trusty Land Cruiser and a Ute. Never did Victoria much other than Melbourne. Great city. Great people. But no bike there.

Spent a bit of time in Cairns. Headed up from the Whitsundays on a whim on my sailboat. Again, lots of fun. Beautiful. However, everything in Australia wants to kill you. Why not drivers too?
Well, I'm not amazing, just very average... but then, you don't know me.

I never met Steve I. Saw him on TV often enough and thought "one day
this man will regret treating dangerous animals with too little respect".

To be honest, I always thought the character he portrayed on TV was a dickhead...

In real life he may have been a good man and his on TV persona was perhaps
just motivated by the Producers of "his" show.

Knowing Steve I as you did, you'd know the answer to that far better than me.
 
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