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Versys dies at idle + fun electric oddities

2K views 22 replies 9 participants last post by  onewizard 
#1 · (Edited)
Okay guys I'm gonna have a dang fit trying to figure this out. I think I have an idea, but now I'm spooked so I'm posting here to get some secondary advice.

So my 2019 (12,000mi) 650 versys dies probably once a ride at the light, clutch always engaged. I just had the entire crankcase and crank shaft replaced because a previous idiot independent mechanic didn't install a chain correctly and it broke around my old crank and front sprocket.

SO after getting it back from the dealership and literally having to re-break in my (almost) new engine, all is well. Except the kickstand switch doesn't work as I can start it while it's down. And now it dies with the clutch engaged at very low speeds. And the rpm dips 100-200 at idle. The cluster will even flicker indicating that it's having some odd electrical issues when in idle.

Today it died for a good 10 seconds. I had to turn it totally off with my key in traffic.

I've adjusted the idle rpms too. Didn't change it. In fact it died at 1400 rpms while at idle. I plan on taking it back this week, and also swapping a new kickstand switch to see if that works. It' just odd that a switch could do all sorts of crazy f*ckery. But hell I don't know what else to do. I just hope this doesn't have something to do with the dealership that originally fixed my bike.
 
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#2 ·
I would unplug and re-plug the kickstand switch and the ECU main module. It wouldn't hurt to look at all the other electrical connectors you can see and make sure they are securely connected.

It sounds like some sort of electronics issue to me, rather than straight mechanical. Bad connections are much more likely than a failed switch, ECU, or actuator.

Another possibility is a bad battery. At low rpm the alternator isn't putting out much juice, and in fact your battery is powering all the electronics. If the battery is shorted internally or just chemically worn out, it is possible it is the culprit. Bad batteries can cause some illogical sets of symptoms, as can bad connections to the battery (cables corroded, bad grounding to the frame, etc). Refresh the connections to the battery and frame ground, and consider having the battery tested (free at most auto parts stores).
 
#3 ·
...I just hope this doesn't have something to do with the dealership that originally fixed my bike....
I'm NOT a 'gambling man' BUT I would put MY money on it being ...the dealership that originally fixed [your] bike....

:goodluck:

AND I'd look for another dealership for repairs!
 
#4 · (Edited)
Okay guys I'm gonna have a dang fit trying to figure this out. I think I have an idea, but now I'm spooked so I'm posting here to get some secondary advice.

So my 2019 (12,000mi) 650 versys dies probably once a ride at the light, clutch always engaged. I just had the entire crankcase and crank shaft replaced because a previous idiot independent mechanic didn't install a chain correctly and it broke around my old crank and front sprocket.

SO after getting it back from the dealership and literally having to re-break in my (almost) new engine, all is well. Except the kickstand switch doesn't work as I can start it while it's down. And now it dies with the clutch engaged at very low speeds. And the rpm dips 100-200 at idle. The cluster will even flicker indicating that it's having some odd electrical issues when in idle.

Today it died for a good 10 seconds. I had to turn it totally off with my key in traffic.

I've adjusted the idle rpms too. Didn't change it. In fact it died at 1400 rpms while at idle. I plan on taking it back this week, and also swapping a new kickstand switch to see if that works. It' just odd that a switch could do all sorts of crazy f*ckery. But hell I don't know what else to do. I just hope this doesn't have something to do with the dealership that originally fixed my bike.
I highlighted that for a reason, need more info. When it quit any engine malfunction light? Did it turn over pushing the start button? Did you smell fuel in the air if it turned over? How long did you crank it without starting? --If you were able to crank it ( was the sound of the starter motor normal as to RPM cranking)without it firing ( no smell of fuel ) and no malfunction light. The vehicle down sensor disables the stick coils and fuel pump, no malfunction light and only way to start is keying off then back on. Comments about loose connections and possibly a airbox not connected properly are among those I would check, seeing as you had a dealer fix this, I would be doing the dealer first, I say this as a professional, if I screwed up something, I want to be able to fix it, doing it yourself or getting someone else to do it makes me look bad. If you have a bad dealer, trying to fix it yourself or delaying bringing it it, is an excuse for them to blame you for the problem, personally I would call them and tell them what is going on, that you need the bike and your time is precious , to work you in.
 
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#5 ·
Thanks for the responses everyone so far.



I highlighted that for a reason, need more info. When it quit any engine malfunction light? Did it turn over pushing the start button? Did you smell fuel in the air if it turned over? How long did you crank it without starting? --If you were able to crank it ( was the sound of the starter motor normal as to RPM cranking)without it firing ( no smell of fuel ) and no malfunction light. The vehicle down sensor disables the stick coils and fuel pump, no malfunction light and only way to start is keying off then back on. Comments about loose connections and possibly a airbox not connected properly are among those I would check, seeing as you had a dealer fix this, I would be doing the dealer first, I say this as a professional, if I screwed up something, I want to be able to fix it, doing it yourself or getting someone else to do it makes me look bad. If you have a bad dealer, trying to fix it yourself or delaying bringing it it, is and excuse for them to blame you for the problem, personally I would call them and tell them what is going on, that you need the bike and your time is precious , to work you in.
No engine malfunction light what so ever. The red light was on though, but the LCD screen was blank. The engine did not turn over when it died for ten seconds. It basically died, then didn't make a single peep. I pressed the engine start button probably two seconds after it died. Nothing cranked. I flipped the red emergency shut off switch up and down, tried cranking the bike. Still dead. I even put the kickstand switch up and down and then repeated the previous sentence again. Still dead. All within probably ten seconds. Finally, I switched the keys from on to off and back to on and the LCD screen and tach fired up again and the bike cranked as soon as I depressed the engine start button. Sounded totally fine. Like I just had it shut off all night and I was turning it on for the first time in the morning. Still no lights or anything strange. I for sure didn't smell any fuel, but I'm surrounded with dozens of cars in LA traffic so I didn't really notice anything anyways.

I called the dealer yesterday and they told me they think "maybe the clutch is going bad", so I don't know what the heck to think. There's no damn way the clutch is going bad from my point of view. But I am taking it there tomorrow to have them ride it and see if they can recreate the issue. I just feel like they're gonna go "idk man, we only replaced the crank and crankcase, this is clearly unrelated to our work". Del Amo Motorsports if anyone is familiar.

:confused:
 
#7 · (Edited)
SO a bit of an update:

I thought that the kickstand switch was the culprit, so I had a part ordered from ebay ready to go with the dealership.

They looked at the bike, nothing strange with the rpms or anything else. Couldn't recreate the problem (great), but they pulled the old switch and put on the new one.

The old switch actually was shredded through the wiring at the top, but we couldn't figure out why. Either way, that had to have been the culprit. They installed the new part and voila! Except, the rpms dipped wildly now when started, and we couldn't get the bike to idle above 1000 rpms. It died constantly. Riding it was like riding a bucking bronco, except it was a misfiring engine. No clue what the hell it was doing. Idle adjuster did nothing. The tach was flickering and the lights were also flickering as the rpms dipped.

Another mechanic went back to the harnesses on the left side and replugged them all in and reseated them, and then the problem went away! Or so I thought...

Engine was perfect riding home. No strange rpm dips. All bands were smooth. Then right as I'm pulling into my driveway, the engine just cuts. The bike dies. Just abruptly. Lights didn't flicker. Dash was perfectly normal. No rpm blips. I cranked it on the spot and it came to life as if nothing had happened. As I'm going to park it I notice the rpms are dipping up and down just a tiny (tiny) bit, and the headlights and tachometer are flickering at the exact same pace as the rpms are when they dip.

What the *&%(%$*!
 
#12 ·
#9 ·
I just had the entire crankcase and crank shaft replaced because a previous idiot independent mechanic didn't install a chain correctly and it broke around my old crank and front sprocket.
A little off the topic but could you elaborate on the mechanic not installing the chain correctly? A little worrisome when someone supposedly qualified messes this job up....
 
#10 · (Edited)
I'm gonna be completely honest with you; The first time (probably mid September) the ex-mechanic installed a clip on instead of a rivet on (which is like, absolutely f*cking stupid for ANY sports bike), and it flew off right as I entered the highway. I really think this caused either my front or rear sprocket to warp just enough so that when he riveted it on correctly the second time, it snapped a month later and totally shredded (basically) the entire drive train. I mean he did pay for all the dealership repairs... So that's a big indicator of fault..

EDIT: Also, on this topic, I'm pretty convinced this has affected the electrical components located above the front sprocket. Taking her to the dealership tonight so they can "diagnose" it tomorrow. Guess I'm going to have to look into getting legal now, because I'm betting they're going to say these two issues are totally "unrelated".

:censored:
 
#18 · (Edited)
I'm planning on contacting the manufacturer. I have no idea where to even start though. I'm sure some of ya'll are right in that this is an electrical issue tied to either the ground or the ECU in some way. I just am not good with electronics. Hell the one time I thought to replace the sprocket, it almost totaled the bike (granted, the mechanic did it, but still). I am not mechanically inclined, what so ever.

I do have some footage of its shenanigans. I don't know if it's of any help, but it's all I got so far;



Yeah, it seems pretty dangerous to ride now.

Third edit: Went looking for any codes I could find. My bike reads code 12: Inlet Air Pressure Sensor error. not sure if that is related to this problem, but it seems like it. Maybe the throttle hoses were installed wrong when my crank was reassembled on my bike? But could that really do all these things?
 
#20 ·
Electrical 101 For Sure

I'm planning on contacting the manufacturer. I have no idea where to even start though. I'm sure some of ya'll are right in that this is an electrical issue tied to either the ground or the ECU in some way. I just am not good with electronics. Hell the one time I thought to replace the sprocket, it almost totaled the bike (granted, the mechanic did it, but still). I am not mechanically inclined, what so ever.

I do have some footage of its shenanigans. I don't know if it's of any help, but it's all I got so far;

https://youtu.be/XguRL2NoROs



EDIT: A super awesome update, running to a friends earlier and I managed to get this nice video of my sweet Versys dying 15 times. I think there's a lot to decipher in this video alone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lM0EGIXPaG0

Yeah, it seems pretty dangerous to ride now.

Third edit: Went looking for any codes I could find. My bike reads code 12: Inlet Air Pressure Sensor error. not sure if that is related to this problem, but it seems like it. Maybe the throttle hoses were installed wrong when my crank was reassembled on my bike? But could that really do all these things?
Chances are really good that the air pressure sensor connector is hanging in the air and the root cause of some of your trouble, I had a identical problem after my valve shim, yes it doesn't idle very good.

Watching the second video starting at 1:30 , when it dies the headlight drops out, there is absolutely no circuit that does that once the bike is running, the only thing that drops the headlight once latched is the start solenoid. So this is going to be fun to find, I am going to suggest a number of things, that may seem extreme. You will need to remove the gas tank .

I think you have a key switch / wire harness problem, fusebox #1, there is a mistake on the PDF service manual KLE650F , drawing shows fuse box #1 as last fuse is headlight fuse 15 amp marked #2, actually it is #6 on the drawing. The brown wire feeds positive to fuse #4;#5;#6. number 5 is the ignition fuse.
I would first take the connector apart from the right switch housing, make sure you have some good dielectric grease on hand, the connector is tight on the lower front right of the gas tank. I would also unplug all the connectors for the relay box and apply dielectric grease . Last take each fuse out then reinstall.

I f you don't find anything, and I think from what you say, this is all beyond you. My next course of action would be to use the relay box with the connectors pulled, connect a meter from ground to the gray pin #2, key on, then tap / cause vibration around the key switch, I suspect a bad key switch ( I would have my meter set for fast min record while tapping)
 
#21 ·
just an update but they fixed it a few weeks ago. Said it was a bad negative ground to terminal. I think it was the wiring either from or to the battery terminal that was affecting it under load (causing it to turn off). I wasn’t able to figure out much as Los Angeles went into lock down the week I got my bike out in mid-March. Thank god I have it now though because it’s really SHTF here..
 
#23 ·
Professional Electric Automechanic


That would have been really hard to trouble shoot, thank you for posting. Intermittent problems bring the expertise out in me and trust me, many _ _ _ _ letter words . Apparently I am told that is a stress relief, usually I would calm down and start making a list of what I should tell myself to check, then go through it, and many times I would call the USA and talk to a service engineer, and many times the suggestion was way off, but it made me stop and re think it. Your post just made my day, and to explain why, in my mind , not solving the problem leaves me a failure in my mind, I can't turn my brain off. I have in the past, been up at 2 AM going over drawings, making notes, unable to sleep, my brain in high gear, something like BiPolar disorder Manic phase, yes burning up calories like being on a treadmill . Now that I am retired and no one is depending on me to keep their job , I am able to reach a point and tell myself, let it go, I still have those moments when I start up my laptop, but I can turn it off easier now.I thought a response was needed more than a Like.


:thanx::thumb::thumb:
 
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