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Stator Testing & Editing April 2020/ Polaris 4016868/ Low and H beams dead

6K views 36 replies 8 participants last post by  onewizard 
#1 · (Edited)

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#3 ·
As to the video Skypilot 69, excellent, I would change only one thing, and that is the VAC testing of the 3 phase should be done using the idle adjustment screw, setting at a fixed approximately 2000 RPM. I have stated in other posts why I picked this RPM, and not the RPM called for in the manual. Short answer is shorted turns will show up at lower RPM because the stator is just beginning to produce approximately the same maximum voltage that it would under load. 2000 RPM should output 24 to 28 VAC and all readings should be within 0.5 VDC of each other.
 
#4 ·
Hello everyone!

First of all, I apologize if this has been already posted, I tried to search for this issue but couldn't really find anything relevant.
According to the repair manual, the headlight low beam should only turn on after starting the engine, however on my bike the low beam goes on immediately after switching the ignition to on, and I can even toggle the high beam aswell.
The problem is that my headlight button acts as a switch, turning on the high beam will turn off the low beam so only one of them is active at all times, however the pass button will toggle high beam while pressed, alongside low beam.
During this problem my instrument cluster high beam indicator does not light up, even when the switch is on for high beam.
From my understanding and past experiences high beam and low beam should work together and not just only one of them selectively, right?
All the other lights from the instrument cluster work correctly, so what could cause all these issues? I'm decent with mechanical issues, but electrical stuff always beats me.

Any information is greatly appreciated.

Thank you in advance.
Low High beam switch is correct for the 2007, the passing switch is correct for the 2007. Turning on the headlight with a key switch only is a problem. Two tests I want you to do, it may require a mirror or a second person, observe if the headlight shuts off momentarily while pushing the start button. Second test is to disconnect the stator output wire socket if the headlight goes out during starting, also disconnect the plug going to the regulator, this will be tough but I don't think you want to replace the relay box if not needed.
Follow the wiring up from the stator, in this photo I have my 07 being tested measuring the AC output voltage, there is a connection between the stator, headlight relay and regulator. I suspect your headlight relay has failed fused closed.
 
#5 ·
Hello everyone and thanks again for all the replies.

So far, under Onewizard's guidance, I've managed to fix the headlights indicator, here's how it went:

First I tested the instrument cluster itself, and all the LEDs were lighting up and everything was working. While I was testing the wires for resistance, I found that the red wire with black tracer on it had no resistance from the instrumet cluster plug to the waterproof joing under the gas tank (it's the blue plug/socket). The red wire with black tracer belongs to the high beam, dimmer switch and also goes into the instrument cluster to terminal 11 which is the high beam indicator light. Correct me if my expression is wrong.

After this I cut into the protective rubber from the dimmer switch assembly wire harness and inside i found that the red wire the black tracer, red wire with yellow tracer and blue wire with yellow tracer (dimmer switch wires) were cut, and to them the low beam/high beam bulb sockets were directly wired to the leads that go into the dimmer switch, and the other leads were just hanging inside. A previous owner did this and the reason remains unkown to me.

I cut and cleaned every wire and I soldered back together the dimmer switch red wire with black tracer and red wire with yellow tracer with the wires that went into the harness of the same color, which were originally cut. To these wires I soldered back the high beam/low beam plugs and the indicator now works when flashing or turning on high beam.

I did not find the blue wire with yellow tracer's other end, but I will get back to it as this needs to be soldered back aswell so that both LB and HB work simultaneously, I think this is why the previously did not.

I will return with an update once I fix the headlights staying on during ignition (all the time) and not turning off when cranking the engine, as the fix was explained to me, but didn't have enough time to apply, between the indicator problem and other maintenance issues I've encountered.

A special thanks to Onewizard for guiding me and explaining to me how these things work, as I am about as rookie as it gets when it comes to electronics.
 
#6 ·
Relay Box Internal cct 16-85

OK guess what, we aren't done, 80 PM later>:), well can't fault him for not asking questions. First I am going to mention this is a MK-1 650 KLE-B 2007. The wiring diagram gives the circuitry but the actual wire connections to the center relay are not all headlight relay specific:surprise:. 16-85 gives the relay box actual wiring, unfortunately you need to be part detective as the pin numbers do not have a colour code, the main drawing has colour but no pin numbers, the actual sockets do not have a reference to either pin or colour.
So below is what I found specific to 16-85
#1 Blue/ Yellow goes to headlight dimmer and low beam / passing switch
#2 Black from the 3 phase output of the stator ( this is the wire that gets cut and taped when installing a Polaris regulator)
#3 Grey from cct.#5 10 amp headlight relay fuse
#6 cct#3 15 amp ECU fuse White / Black to ECU relay contact
#7 Brown / White also to ECU controller
#8 White / Red fuel pump + power

The question was asked why the headlight relay is prone to failure when the other relays seldom fail.
Electrical 101 : I am sure everyone on this forum has been around incandescent lights in their lifetime, have you ever noticed when say a existing light in a room (already on ) blinks for a fraction of a second when another light is turned on?? The reason for this is inrush current and if you were to measure a 100 watt light bulb ( 120 VAC )with a ohm meter , it would measure roughly 12 ohms. So watts is voltage times current. To find current divide ohms into volts , so 120 / 12 = 10 amp . 10 amp X 120 volts = 1200 watts , yes 10 times the running current, that is why you see the light blink in your house and why the headlight relay contact fails faster than any other relays. LED bulbs do not have inrush current and the higher the voltage the lower the current i.e. when keying on my Denali lights draw more current than when the bike is running and the regulator puts out 14.2 VDC, the reason is most LED lights have a voltage range they function in and have their own regulator built in or a separate driver
 
#7 ·
Hello guys!

So, we finally fixed this, my headlights were actually wired into the ignition, so they always come on and stay on when turning the key into the 'on' position. We found out later that the headlight relay was actually fused closed, and the headlights would not come on no matter what. This is actually a common issue with this relay, I saw a couple of posts were people replaced the relay box because the headlights did not come on after starting the engine. After I soldered everything back they way it was from the factory, we proceeded with the fix, as follows:

- a 12v 40 amp 5 pin relay is needed for this (this relay will have the following numbers usually next to it's pins #85 #30 #86 #87 #87A)
- a socket with the harness should be purchased with the relay if it does not include one
- the following wires get cut from the Kawasaki harness that plugs into the relay box: Grey wire from pin #3, Blue wire with yellow tracer from pin #1 and the Black wire from pin #2 (Black wire gets taped up, for later use with Polaris regulators, as mentioned above)
- on my harness, the ground from the starter solenoid, Yellow wire with red tracer, was located on the 10 pin socket of the relay box, pin #11
- the new relay's wires that go onto the #85 and #30 pins, together, get soldered to the Kawasaki Grey wire from pin #3
- the new relay's wire that goes onto the #87 pin gets soldered to the Kawasaki Blue wire with yellow tracer from pin #1
- the new relay's wire that goes onto the #86 pin has to be tapped in and soldered directly on the Yellow wire with red tracer from the starter solenoid (found on the 10 pin socket on my bike), a little wire insulation has to be removed, this must not be cut
- the 3 sockets from the relay box must remain plugged in after doing this, at least on my bike.

Thanks to everyone who replied here, and again, a special thanks to onewizard for guiding and helping me through this, hopefully this method he came up with will help some people save some cash in the future, and learn something more about their bikes, as I did.

Below you can find some photos of how the scheme looks for my bike, the installed relay, and a video of this actually works; the headlights turn on when turning the key to the on position, turn off while cranking the engine, and turn back on when the bike is started.




 
#8 ·
This is on as 2013 versys 650 without ABS.
It took me several tries but I have a regulator mount that I like. The regulator will sit in the hole of the swing-arm with the connectors down and I am going to use the triumph wiring harness.

I removed the old regulator and mount assy.







I removed the rubber mounted angle and regulator from the other bracket. I replaced this with a 1.5" x 1.5" x 1/8" steel angle. A flat strap would work also.
Near the edge of the angle I drilled holes to mount where the rubber grommets were located.
I drilled and taped 6mm x 1.00 holes to mount the regulator to it near the angle on the same flange. First try it was too far forward and hit the swing-arm pivot. 2nd try it was too far aft and hit the battery box. so I cut slots. I ended up using the forward slot to mount both the angle and the regulator. The aft slot attaches the just the angle and the taped hole I drilled mounts the aft end of the regulator. This sets it at a back end up angle.





I used 5 ea 6mm washers to space the regulator away from the angle.



I took it all apart and reinstalled it in the bike. I is a tight fit and it helps to have small hands. put the mount back in the bike, install the new angle on the the mount with both bolts and tighten. Then remove the forward bolt and replace it with the regulator spacer washers and install the bolt in the hole that attaches the angle to the mount. Last install the bolt and spacer washers in the aft mount hole of the regulator.









Next will come the wiring.
 
#9 ·
Spent a good 30 minutes looking at the photos. You used the original mounting bracket, what it looks like is one bolt hole is used to mount the regulator and the angle to the original bracket, a second hole in your angle is drilled and taped for mounting the regulator and another bolt fastens the rearmost part of the angle to the OEM bracket. You used washers to allow clearance for the bolt head.

Could you have used a piece of 1/4 flat plate 4" X 4.5", raised it another inch higher ? Looking at that regulator and the OEM bracket, trying to mount horizontal with the socket facing forward, looks like it would need to be raised over 1 inch and slopped uphill and the harness installed before mounting. Also looked at having the socket facing up , same issue, would need to have it mounted lower. So after spending another 20 minutes, sort of a back seat driver here, pretty hard to dispute someone able to get their hand on the socket side of the regulator and actually see the whole thing. The foot brake side where the last photos were taken, if you look up, the original wire harness has about 7 inches of excess wire , wire tied or a metal strap holding it up. You should have enough slack to do all the connections on the right side of the bike.

:thumb::thumb::thumb::goodidea:
 
#10 ·
I had the angle laying around so I used it. A plate could work but I don't think I could get it high enough to not need spacers for clearance to the bolt head. Yes I used the fwd bolt to attach both the angle and the regulator to the oem bracket. The spacers are for clearance to the bolt head and to position the regulator into the swing-arm. The picture with my hand in it is to show that I have clearance to the swing-arm. If you go higher there is a frame tube in the way, back and you hit the battery box, fwd or level and the wiring or connectors might contact the swing-arm pivot. The oem bracket has nuts welded on, and my new angle is threaded so everything threads in from the right side. I
Super glued the spacer washers together and added lock washers under the head of the regulator bolts. The bolts extend out far enough on the left side that I can put nuts on the back side.
I looked at mounting it flat but didn't think I could get the connectors on. They would have hit the brake line or frame tube. I didn't look at putting the connectors fwd.

With the Triumph wiring harness there will be enough to connect to the bike wiring. I can get my hand in above the exhaust to attach the connectors. That will be a project for next week.

I did test my stator with the bike warmed up and idle set at 2000 rpm. I have 21.9, 22.0, and 21.9 battery voltage has at 12v at the end of the test.
 
#11 ·
I continued on with my regulator installation by doing the wiring modifications. I used Posi-Seal connectors for my wire splices. I will be able to remove them without having to cut any wire back. Small white 2 gray stripe wire is cut and the end taped and pushed into the protective sleeve.





I used a posi- tap for the headlight trigger. Pin 3 black wire cut, harness end taped with electrical tape, plug end into the tap after I attached it to the grey wire pin 2 on the plug. The head light comes on with the ignition switch.



I plugged in the connectors on the regulator and tied up the harness to the frame tube. I had tried to use the open hole from the original harness location but felt that the harness were too close to the swing arm pivot.



Reinstalled the fuel tank and battery then leak checked the tank connection. Then I put on the side fairings so I would be able to take it for a test ride.

I hooked up a meter to the battery cables at the battery and had right around 12v with the key on, headlight came on with the switch. The red light is my heads up voltage monitor.



I then started the bike and got 14.3v at about 1500 RPM.(I had just guessed how much to turn back the idle adjustment after I had set it up to test my stator output). This is with a cold engine.



So off I go. About 2 miles into the ride the heads up is flashing red. Oh crap what happened? I had bought a used regulator. Is it bad? Did I fry my stator? Cut a wire on the suspension?
None of the above. My ground wire to the Posi-Seal had pulled out. No connection No charge.

The Posi-Seal connectors look simple to install but you almost need to have 3 hands. 1 for the wire to make sure it stays pushed in all the way, 1 for the center of the connection and 1 for the end that you screw in. The wire had pulled back as I was trying to line up the threads so I didn't cross thread it.

Everything back together and I got in about 30 miles today. After I was warmed up I was able to set my idle back to normal and when I got home I had 12.8 v with the cooling fan and aux lights on. Idle speed 1100 RPM. give it just a little gas to 1500 RPM and it goes to 14.3 v.
Excellent job, thanks for posting. I do have further comment about the connectors but wish to keep that separate from this post.
 
#12 ·
Posi-Seal / Proper Crimp/ Not Equal

I thought I should add a clarification, as a professional, I get upset when products come on the market then get endorsed, in the case of posi-seal Web Bike World did a review. Just remember one high resistance connection on 1 of the 3 phase wires could cause stator and regulator failure.I copied a line from one of my posts;The stator is rated at something like 24 amp output, phase current is rated at 14 amp maximum, if you have a phase loss, you will get a single phase condition, with a maximum 24 amp available, hence the burnt stator.https://www.kawasakiversys.com/foru...tator-testing-device-load-ratings-2015-a.html

I will make one comment strictly to do with the posi-seal connectors, anything over 3 amp I would never use them, having said this, that would rule out every connection to do with the regulator except a trigger for the headlight relay if you went that way. You need to understand what metals are used in the make up of these, the principle behind making the connection, and the joint resistance. A proper low conductivity copper crimp exceeds a solder joint and is equal to the same current carrying characteristics of the original conductor,provided it is crimped properly, that is impossible with the materials used in the posi-seal.

So I did some research , they claim 600 VAC & DC rating, yes try and find the approval, lots of glitzy login options on the Home page , all kinds of patent pending, try and find a approval UL ULc , CSA and a very long list, yes they don't exist for this product. https://www.posi-products.com/posi-seal.cfm
I copied their spec sheet, and when I say spec, any crimp used needs to have a current carrying ability which goes through testing and gets approved, it also needs to have a insulation / voltage rating.
Here is the spec sheet, find a current rating or a recognized approval agency. Here is a Canadian crimp manufacturer, all their crimps are tested to a UL standard https://commerce.ilsco.com/e2wShopp...3&parentLink=2100001184:3100012202:3100012793



Just remember when you get a burnt stator, don't blame the regulator, look at your failed connections. Here is another member with a similar situation on a 2015 in the Polaris thread https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/1142858-post49.html
 
#13 ·
Proper Crimping / Butt Splice / Sample/ Many Others

I thought I would show something which very few understand, and it is the butt splice that can be the most difficult especially when it is a harness made up of 3 or more wires, one bad crimp, now one of the circuit wires is too short, will not wire tie / heat shrink uniformly.

In this post I am using 14 gauge T90 nylon 600 VAC rated wire.

A couple things many aren't aware of, 2 of the 14 gauge wires are equal to one 11 gauge, or in parallel current carrying 30 amp, so gauges double or half by every 3 sizes .Circular mils is always the value you look for, diameter is not directly proportional to circular mils, therefore the larger the gauge, the less room required to give the same circular mils per amp, that is winding a stator with 2 of the 18 gauge wires will take up much more room than winding with a single 15 gauge wire, however it be will be much more difficult winding with a 15 gauge wire So the delta wound stator has two 18 gauge magnet wires attached to each lead. One 18 gauge wire is @1624 circular mils, so this is equal to one 15 gauge wire @ 3256 CM.
AWG Wire Chart, Aught, MCM kcmil, US Inch, and Metric Wire Sizes

The yellow wires 14 gauge T90 nylon, note the stripped wire length in the following photos


Just in case someone thinks I am your average electrician and have just the basic tools, I am showing one of many crimpers that I own, However my go to for 10 to 18 gauge stranded wire and T&B crimps is the orange / black handle T&B crimper . It is quick and having made 1000's of crimps , it is the most reliable.



Note the clear 10 gauge butt splice and the doubled over wire, which gives more surface area, not a substitute for the proper 14 gauge butt splice blue one, however it will perform equal to or greater than the blue crimp, provided you crimp properly


blue 14 gauge butt splice, note the opening in the center, the prime reason for noting is it is important to do identical orientation crimps on a butt splice, as you follow this it will become apparent





notice the opening faces up, the indent on the front of the crimper is up, therefore the indent is on the bottom




And the final product:clap:


I wouldn't hesitate to use the wire to lift 100 LB's, in fact I would expect the attachment point to fail before the crimp fails
 
#14 ·
I got back into my wiring today. I removed all of the Posi-lock connectors except for the trigger wire. 2 of the stator lead wires pulled out with moderate force. I went back together with yellow heat shrink butt splices. All of the Triumph wiring needed the yellow sized connectors. I used the long strip and fold over technique for the 3 stator leads on the bike side. Another plus was that I could use a single piece of the 1/2" wire sleeve due to the smaller diameter crimps.

No new pics, but it looks almost the same as before but with all the wiring in one sleeve.

Cold idle voltage readings are the same.

FYI I removed just the wiring harness attachment fwd of the brake line and had plenty of room. There is another one fwd of the battery box that will get you even more wire to work with.
 
#15 ·
#16 ·
Crimps/ Posi-splice/ Skill Required

I think I failed to mention that many licensed electricians don't know how to crimp properly, the fact that I worked with extremely high current for over 35 years ( carbon arc welders 2000 amp, large inverters 6000 amp and higher), many times I used a scotch brite pad, the purple ones, to remove oxide on copper buss, may seem overkill however I squared X R ( I for current,R for resistance). ;
The practical explanation for I^2R, is that the power ( measured in Watts) is equal to the single variable of current "I", (which becomes squared in this equation, as you have confirmed mathematically) times the resistance (R) along that path of a circuit. So as long as you keep the resistance small, you can minimize the power consumed or lost as heat. Yes this is why you want thicker wires in longer extension cords. Lower R means less wasted power.
So back on track here, either a crimp or posi-tap posi-splice can be a bad or poor joint, no harm in using a scotch brite pad on the striped wire to remove oxide, much like soldering a copper pipe, a clean connection usually means a leak free connection.Pulling on the joint with moderate pressure on either a crimp or other posi-splice , and it comes apart= a possible failure when you least expect it.
The engineering behind a posi-splice has been out over 20 years, I will keep this short, it was used in large office buildings , whwere we are talking well over 200 work stations, 120 VAC 15 and 20 amp power outlets, some isolated ground power outlets and communication. This was flat multi conductor , duct taped to the concrete floor with industrial carpet over it, very expensive but extremely fast to move complete work stations.
So the problem with any splice that uses the piercing method, keep in mind, much like a airplane wing,( lift is given by a greater distance over the top of the wing) the copper strands need to stretch as the distance around the piercing part causes this, also the primary contact is the piercing part, further out depends on the copper contact of each conductor and in some cases may use those conductors inches away, causing a greater current per circular mil area than the original design of that particular copper conductor say it is 14 gauge rated at 15 amp, the strands in direct contact are equivalent to 16 gauge.Also keep in mind that some conductors could shear in the piercing process.
The second method of the posi-splice , only one side of the copper conductor is in contact and it is about 130% divided by 2 = 65% surface area. A butt splice crimp done properly is about 150% of the original conductor, so larger surface area , an advantage but like other methods , using the wrong tool or not enough pressure or crimping near the edge, crimping in opposite locations on a butt splice, can all lead to failure.
Using a un-insulated crimp and using a un-insulated crimp plus soldering = about the same thing, Eastern Beaver has a series of crimpers along with several photos of what proper crimps look like, key to most crimps is proper pressure.
I picked my T&B and Ideal crimpers because of the mechanical advantage of these two,and the $$$.
You will notice many use the crimp indent located before the pivot point, many don't have the strength to produce a proper crimp, hence the ratchet crimpers, these are prone to maladjustment = insufficient pressure crimp + they are very expensive.


.I am sure I missed something here, one thing I can say is, I made very expensive crimps, many 500 KCMIL and 750 KCMIL using a hydraulic Burndy crimper with proper dies, many didn't know that a proper crimp, the die number would appear on the crimp, if you couldn't see this number, you had a bad crimp and if it failed you may be on the hook for damages and a law suit , ( like death, they have labs to determine the cause of failure of a crimp or electrical device, and I was involved in one, fortunately I was absolved of all blame).
 
#17 ·
Your call, I included the post from Quexpress, as far as I know, he is still using the posi-taps.
I should have elaborated and said that if under moderate pulling they remain intact, leave as is, some times what I do is at the extreme or overkill end, why? I worked on extremely complicated machines, nothing like coming back 16 hours of trouble shooting later to find it was indeed a bad connection, hard to explain that to a customer that lost $100,000 in lost production and paid my company $2000 , to top it off, next time he has trouble, do you think he will call me---:surprise: not likely
I got back into my wiring today. I removed all of the Posi-lock connectors except for the trigger wire. 2 of the stator lead wires pulled out with moderate force. I went back together with yellow heat shrink butt splices. All of the Triumph wiring needed the yellow sized connectors. I used the long strip and fold over technique for the 3 stator leads on the bike side. Another plus was that I could use a single piece of the 1/2" wire sleeve due to the smaller diameter crimps.

No new pics, but it looks almost the same as before but with all the wiring in one sleeve.

Cold idle voltage readings are the same.

FYI I removed just the wiring harness attachment fwd of the brake line and had plenty of room. There is another one fwd of the battery box that will get you even more wire to work with.
You need a award :grin2:, I am hoping that the photos I added about crimping help someone, as I have seen bad crimps, on this forum, and kept my mouth shut. No one in this thread>:)

The failure that I had experienced was caused by my DIY stake-ons.


https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/1142858-post49.html


Yes I'm still using posi-taps.
As always a real asset to this forum, thanks for posting.
 
#18 ·
Current Rating 12VDC wire

From the responses here I am not sure everyone understands the purpose of a relay in this context. It exists to supply a common switched source of high current that is ONLY active while the engine is running or the key is ON - depending what you activate the relay from. Kinda like the main switch on the fuse panel of your house that shuts the power on/off to all of your house. Relays are not normally used for individual control of items on a motorcycle, except for the starter motor.

The switched power source keeps items that will still suck small amounts of current when turned off (eg. electronic heat controllers) from draining the battery. It also keeps items that the rider forgets to switch off from draining the battery.

Each item still has it's own individual fuse, switch or controller (optional) and wiring as it would normally have. The POS wire just gets connected to pin 87 of the relay instead of directly to the POS terminal of the batter.

As for wire gauge size this has nothing to do with relays or switches but is dependent entirely on the current flow. See the chart.

So I copied a old post and naturally it takes the order & Date of the original post, so I quoted it from post 2 of this thread.
 
#19 ·
% Current Rating Of Wire / Continuous / Intermittent /Ambient Temperature /De-rating

So I thought about explaining this at the same time as my last post, I was kind of tired and let it go, I have all this info in my brain and many times take for granted that everyone else does too.

You notice I say % current rating, that is are we running for example 20 amp on 16 ga shows 2 feet, you notice wire length, that is total so really if you are carrying a ground the total distance source to load is 1 foot .

Next thing that isn't mentioned is ambient temperature, continuous rating is 30'C, on a motorcycle the heat from the engine if you ride in a warm climate can cause the ambient + heat from the motor to reach over 40'C. Therefore if you live in these warm climates you should de-rate the wire.

Two ways of explaining it, 80% load rating of a 10 amp fuse on 16ga wire = 8 amp. maximum. A second way of stating it, 10 amp load current @ 125%= 12.5 amp, there is no 12.5 amp table, go to the next rating of 15 amp, using a 12.5 amp fuse of 15 amp fuse, in this case the maximum distance for 16 is 2 feet or total wire length of 4 ft.
I bring in temperature rating, for a reason, as the copper heats up, it's resistance increases, something like the element in a toaster , it gets red hot due to resistance, it is composed of nickle and chrome, nichrome https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...iki/Nichrome&usg=AOvVaw17dBNvZ3LmLEZlJcI_G2iA.

So i mentioned using crimps, doubling over wire and surface area came up often, also oxide . Here is what happens, we run 16 ga wire with 8 amp on it off the regulator 3 phase stator, everything is fine, for months. One day we go for a ride, it is hot out, stop and go traffic , the weakest link is the connection points, one connector starts to heat up, which increases the resistance of the connection, a greater voltage drop which produces a increase in heat, that joint fails, we now have a single phase situation, the stator now outputs 13 amp on 18 gauge magnet wire, within 10 minutes we have burnt stator windings.
This may come as a surprise, however, using a oversize conductor, acts as a heat sink, pulling heat away from the connection points, it is forced upon electricians in industry and even residential services, the main safety switches have limited metal contact surfaces and the manufacturers have representitives on places like CSA and UL, which forces electricians to use a minimum wire size for the designated current rating of the switch, usually we need to supply a 125% wire size for the 100% rated switch** going to stop as it gets complicated and not all areas follow this rule.

So my point is, when possible , go 1 size larger.

How you start is what is the current of your load, take 125% of this value and that is your fuse size , example of 8 amp load =10 amp fuse.
Next look at the distance, I prefer to have a central grounding point with a oversize copper ground, as steel frame is a poor conductor. An example is I have a 10 gauge ground about 3 feet long, my Denali split sound bomb horn ( 20 amp fuse), my 15 amp fairing outlet, my Denali lights, my dash 10 amp outlet, my heated grips, and my Gerbing jacket outlet. Not all these loads are continuous , not all are used in warm temperatures. That ground is also tied to the frame though the threaded mounting bolts of my distribution.

Last as a rule,on a 12 VDC system, actual load current; I use 14 gauge for 10 amp [15 amp fuse]; 12 gauge for 15 amp [20 amp fuse]; 10 gauge for 20 amp
[ 30 amp fuse] If you look at the distance in the table, my values are going to be hard to exceed the distance / load rating.

Any questions feel free to ask, probably something wrong or missed. I am a electrician not a magician >:)
 
#20 ·
Low and hi beams dead

Hi all.
The headlight went dead on my 2014 650 ABS. No low or high beam and no high beam indicator light on the dash.
I've read that the relay is the likely problem. Can someone tell me where the relay is located? With pictures?
Recently replaced stator and R/R. After about 1500 miles the headlights just stopped working. Converted to HID 2 years and 40,000 miles ago.
Any tips would be appreciated.

kevlar
 
#21 · (Edited)
Testing 3 Phase / Regulator/ Headlight Relay

I had approximately 100 PM with this poster, in the end there was a wiring problem with the previuous owner and also a stator failure had occured, in the end the relay was bypassed with a 40 amp china $10 relay and socket. We now have a easy work around for those with a headlight relay failure, instead of spending $$$$ for a new or used rely box, you can easily replace with this ( actually less than $10 relay, buy 5 and use them for everything, heated gear, auxiliary outlet, fog lights). I have posted the info in https://www.kawasakiversys.com/foru...07-cluster-testing-cheap-fix-china-relay.html

Here is the active link, read my posts for testing methods
https://www.kawasakiversys.com/foru...12897-2007-versys-650-headlights-problem.html

I assume you checked the headlight fuse, the volts DC at the battery with the bike running at idle?

I have copied your post to the active thread, once 48 hours transpires you can post there, in the interval you can post in this thread and I will copy/move the posts.
 
#23 ·
What Browser


Are you using Chrome or Safari by chance?
 
#25 · (Edited)
No Problem, believe it or not, my lap top failed, sent it out as it is a PITA to get to the power switch , about 40 tiny screws and several layers of boards.So it comes back and they wiped the drive, fortunately they loaded all the original programs and I had a external backup. I use both Chrome and Mozilla FireFox, so I log in using Chrome and Eddie had a trip report with photos, except all the photos were gone except for the jpeg. WTF , sent a PM to him. I was having issues with Firefox and it wouldn't load--that is a long story, needed tech support to dig in deep to restore firefox.

CHROME BROWSER

What you need to do is go into your cache and clear for all time
Here is a link as it happened to me, kind of sneaks up on you.
https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums/1576361-post9.html
 
#27 ·
I recieved this in a PM today ;

Hi onewizard, I’ve put approx 500 miles on the bike since the issue I had and then the lights died and then the bike died. Just done the stator and alternator tests again and showing 55v at 4,000 rpm (manual suggests 42v) Defective R/R again???

Thanks
Vaiders



I removed some of the PM, as the question was about installing a CompuFire or Polaris regulator and what was involved. Since the bike is a 2011, I would recommend getting a Polaris 4012941 regulator and Triumph harness.
Very first thing is to test the stator using my test procedure , you couple a Polaris with a bad stator, expect regulator failure.In this particular case something happened to cause the ECU to fail and the headlights to blow, you don't want to repeat that. In your case I would suggest doing the 2000 RPM, if voltage is balanced between phases, adjust the idle screw to 3000 RPM get all the measurements and record them, make sure you measure each phase to ground, if the stator is good you will get the same volts ac , however it could be considerably off from the 2000 RPM, this volts to ground is a reference only, I am sure very few people know why on this forum, however your measurement with your meter could be different than if you used a different meter, because of 2 reasons, OEM is Delta Connected, so a reference to ground is common to all lines out, Y connected would be similar, however the volts to ground if the stator is good is what is called capacitive coupling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitive_coupling , if the stator is good, all 3 phases should be very close, within 2 VAC, if in doubt post your readings.
Hi,

Sorry for the delay, I’ve just finished nights.
Tested the stator and got the following results:

3phases all balanced at 0.18 ohms and all IR >1000Ms

Engine warmed up and then tested at:

1350 RPM - ~25v (ph to ph), ~13.5v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

2000 RPM - ~34v (ph to ph), ~18.5v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

3000 RPM - ~48.5v (ph to ph), ~27.5v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

4000 RPM - ~68v (ph to ph), ~38v (ph to Grnd). All phases balanced.

Oddly, when the stator lead was disconnected the headlight came back on....

Just tested the rectifier as per the manual and no light coming on during final test....

New R/R then!?!

Has anyone used bikebandit.com? They have a new Polaris 4012941 and triumph lead for $200, delivered to the UK for $300. Sound reasonable?

Cheers

Vaiders
 
#28 ·
Hi,

Sorry for the delay, I’ve just finished nights.
Tested the stator and got the following results:


Has anyone used bikebandit.com? They have a new Polaris 4012941 and triumph lead for $200, delivered to the UK for $300. Sound reasonable?

Cheers

Vaiders
The price is good as to a 4012941, However the 4016868 is half that almost and has a higher current rating , unfortunately it is much more difficult to install. If interested I can find a legit used one off Ebay, so far I have purchased around 5 used ones all were 100% OK. I will send a PM to you.
 
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