Clunking sound during emergency break - Rear wheel! - Kawasaki Versys Forum
Versys-X 300 General Discussion Please post any 2017+ Kawasaki Versys-X 300 related topics that DO NOT fit into any of the other topics here.

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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 07:48 PM Thread Starter
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Clunking sound during emergency break - Rear wheel!

Hi there!

Recently have over 220 miles with my VX300 ABS, bought it brand new from dealer this year, rides from home to work and vice versa, not babying but trying not to going over 6-7k rpm or keeping long time at high rpm's.

Last day had to make an emergency break, wasn't traveling too fast, like 30mph (4th gear), the secuence i did was: cut off gass, pull both breaks and after engine starts to die pull clutch lever (engine break did help very well).

The thing is, i heard like a clunking sound from/like shifting, not sure if sound comes froms gearbox, chain, break system. After that, i decided to reproduce the event, in a controlled and secure zone (park lot) for being sure of what the heck was that sound, and this time i just used full 100% rear break, the secuence this time was accelerate until 30mph, pull clutch lever then push rear break really hard, and the clunking reproduces againg there, as if the gearbox and engine was still connected.

As expected, the ABS system comes in action preventing lock the whell, and i recognize its natual sound, but that clunk is what gets me in concern. i should mention this is my first manual transmision bike, had drive manual transmision bikes before.

Even replicate same event, but shifting to N, holding clutch lever and pushing rear break, no clunking sounds comes.

Don't know if this is 'normal' or should i tell dealers to carry the bike to workshop for cheking that!

Best regards. Ride safe!
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-03-2019, 08:27 PM
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The ABS works by interrupting the brake system and then allowing it to operate again several times a second. Each time it cycles on/off the wheel rotates and then stops rotating. A clunking sound is normal as you are sending a pulse through the drive train that is felt by the cush drive, any chain slack, and gear box backlash.

If the noise worries you, get the dealer to take it out to test it.

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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-04-2019, 10:05 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Shifty View Post
The ABS works by interrupting the brake system and then allowing it to operate again several times a second. Each time it cycles on/off the wheel rotates and then stops rotating. A clunking sound is normal as you are sending a pulse through the drive train that is felt by the cush drive, any chain slack, and gear box backlash.

If the noise worries you, get the dealer to take it out to test it.
Hello,

All that probably if i wasn't pulling the clutch lever i belive, where its suposed to deattach engine and gear box, huh?

No chain slack btw. And it doesn't happen when doing the same, but shiffting to N after break, it's like even pulling clutch lever when in any gear, the engine and gear box its not 100% deattached. Don't know if its same principle as in cars for cluth, as for motorcycles when operating clutch.

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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-04-2019, 12:09 PM
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I agree it is probably normal, and probably a big part of it is the chain.

You must have some slack. It is required.

The gearbox is an interesting contraption. Go watch YouTube of how motorcycle transmissions work. Everything is still spinning in there, just not linked together.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-04-2019, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincenzo Campisi View Post
...No chain slack btw....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fly-Sig View Post
...You must have some slack. It is required....
IF you're operating w/ NO "chain slack" you WILL wreck stuff, and MIGHT even kill yourself when the chain breaks!

For instance - the Versys 650s require 1 to 1.4 inches of 'slack'.


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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-04-2019, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincenzo Campisi View Post
Hello,

All that probably if i wasn't pulling the clutch lever i belive, where its suposed to deattach engine and gear box, huh?

No chain slack btw. And it doesn't happen when doing the same, but shiffting to N after break, it's like even pulling clutch lever when in any gear, the engine and gear box its not 100% deattached. Don't know if its same principle as in cars for cluth, as for motorcycles when operating clutch.

Here is how things are connected.

The clutch disengages between the crankshaft and the gearbox. From the gearbox to the wheel there is no disengagement.

The gearbox has two parallel shafts with cogs on each one. There is the input shaft and output shaft. When the bike is in neutral the input shaft is still spinning with the motor and the cogs are spinning with it but the output shaft is disengaged.

From the output shaft to the wheel everything is still engaged.

A properly adjusted chain has a certain amount of slack. Pull downwards on the bottom run of the chain and is should move even if it feels tight. When the bike is moving the top run of the chain is pulled tight but the bottom run is loose enough that it can move in a wave pattern like a guitar string. You'll sometimes see this if you watch bike races and the camera catches a chain at speed.

The Versys 300 might not have a cush drive but larger bikes also have a rubber cushion built into the rear wheel behind the sprocket. This is another place where there is a bit of backlash.

There is a significant difference between car and bike gearboxes. A car gearbox has everything disengaged until you put it into gear. Then only the relevant cogs slide into engagement. There are syncro rings that allow that to happen without crunching the teeth to pieces. A bike gearbox is 'constant mesh' or 'dog box'. In the bike all the pairs of gears are always meshed. When you change gears you slide them sideways and they lock the input and output shaft together. Most race cars also have dog boxes because they shift faster and more reliably. As mentioned already, there are youtune videos explaining them.

I don't know if this is your first bike or not, but if it is, welcome to the world of bike mechanics. Some people have no interest in knowing what's happening inside the bike, but most riders I know are interested in understanding their bike's internals. I hope what I've written here is of interest.

And another note about the ABS. If you get on a wet grassy surface you can get the ABS to kick in more easily at low speed and become comfortable about what it feels like. Mine often kicks in coming down my steep driveway on a wet morning.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-04-2019, 06:11 PM
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+10 on the info above......and, a chain is much happier at the loose end of specs as opposed to being too tight.
Also, I was in Santiago, Chile about three weeks ago and took this picture of a Versys-X 300 at our hotel. Is it yours?
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-04-2019, 06:43 PM
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a chain is much happier at the loose end of specs as opposed to being too tight.
Ditto to that. I expected the opposite. In fact, if the chain is way too loose it can be dangerous, so I incorrectly surmised it was best to have it adjusted to the tight end of the spec, which gives room for wear/stretch. But actually it runs smoother at the loose end.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-04-2019, 10:41 PM
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A chain that's too tight will also put more stress on the output shaft and can cause the output shaft seal to leak.

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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-05-2019, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincenzo Campisi View Post
No chain slack btw. And it doesn't happen when doing the same, but shiffting to N after break, it's like even pulling clutch lever when in any gear, the engine and gear box its not 100% deattached. Don't know if its same principle as in cars for cluth, as for motorcycles when operating clutch.
Vincenso,
Surely you are kidding? No chain slack?
Your owners manual says that there should be 25-35mm of slack in the middle of the chain run. Like the others I also go for maximum so I set mine to 35mm. Too tight is really bad.
As the rear suspension compresses the chain gets tighter. If there is no slack a huge load goes on the chain and countershaft bearing, and the suspension does not work correctly.

2. A motorcycle clutch is not at all like a car clutch. It is a "wet" clutch with discs and plates that grip when the clutch is released, but move independently when the clutch is pulled in. However, there will always be a little drag, even with the clutch pulled in. This is why when cold there is a little clunk when first is engaged.

3. The ABS should work pretty much the same with the clutch in or out. You should get a shuddering from the pedal or lever when it is working, but not a clunking sound. I should try mine sometime. After years on bikes without ABS I have learned not to lock the wheels and so jamming them on and relying on the ABS is unnatural for me.

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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-06-2019, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fasteddiecopeman View Post
IF you're operating w/ NO "chain slack" you WILL wreck stuff, and MIGHT even kill yourself when the chain breaks!

For instance - the Versys 650s require 1 to 1.4 inches of 'slack'.

I meant, no over slack!

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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-06-2019, 03:11 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by whisperquiet View Post
+10 on the info above......and, a chain is much happier at the loose end of specs as opposed to being too tight.
Also, I was in Santiago, Chile about three weeks ago and took this picture of a Versys-X 300 at our hotel. Is it yours?
That one over there it's not exactly mine, but it's like mine, now 2020 model comes white!

5jhcbpkz.qzd.jpg
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-06-2019, 03:20 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Shifty View Post
Here is how things are connected.

The clutch disengages between the crankshaft and the gearbox. From the gearbox to the wheel there is no disengagement.

The gearbox has two parallel shafts with cogs on each one. There is the input shaft and output shaft. When the bike is in neutral the input shaft is still spinning with the motor and the cogs are spinning with it but the output shaft is disengaged.

From the output shaft to the wheel everything is still engaged.

A properly adjusted chain has a certain amount of slack. Pull downwards on the bottom run of the chain and is should move even if it feels tight. When the bike is moving the top run of the chain is pulled tight but the bottom run is loose enough that it can move in a wave pattern like a guitar string. You'll sometimes see this if you watch bike races and the camera catches a chain at speed.

The Versys 300 might not have a cush drive but larger bikes also have a rubber cushion built into the rear wheel behind the sprocket. This is another place where there is a bit of backlash.

There is a significant difference between car and bike gearboxes. A car gearbox has everything disengaged until you put it into gear. Then only the relevant cogs slide into engagement. There are syncro rings that allow that to happen without crunching the teeth to pieces. A bike gearbox is 'constant mesh' or 'dog box'. In the bike all the pairs of gears are always meshed. When you change gears you slide them sideways and they lock the input and output shaft together. Most race cars also have dog boxes because they shift faster and more reliably. As mentioned already, there are youtune videos explaining them.

I don't know if this is your first bike or not, but if it is, welcome to the world of bike mechanics. Some people have no interest in knowing what's happening inside the bike, but most riders I know are interested in understanding their bike's internals. I hope what I've written here is of interest.

And another note about the ABS. If you get on a wet grassy surface you can get the ABS to kick in more easily at low speed and become comfortable about what it feels like. Mine often kicks in coming down my steep driveway on a wet morning.
Thanks, this is actually my first manual transmision bike, and yes, i really want to know how internal mechanics works. Your answer was clear to me.

I read from other motorcycle forums about that "cluncky" sound on hard/emergency breaking, specially from rear break, similiar to shifting gears, so i wont be over concerned anymore, but still going to tell at firs service at dealer's workshop.

Thanks, Ride safe!

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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-06-2019, 04:31 PM
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I meant, no over slack!
-

-

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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-08-2019, 06:31 AM Thread Starter
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Just in case, if someone else is also experiencing this behaviour, or had been experience it before, with VX or any other ABS/non-ABS motorcycle, let me know!

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