The 2019 Versys - Page 3 - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #41 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 09:46 AM Thread Starter
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i don't want to spend time enumerating the ongoing technical problems that have plagued this forum since the start, and continue through this very minute. whoever is in charge either makes the fixes or they don't, forum inmates either put up with it...or not. there are choices all the way around.

that's my last word on the subject, this is a bike build thread.
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post #42 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jdrocks View Post
all six of these Versys/ER6 motos got the cop motor swap or already had that motor, that is, the higher performance motor from the ER6 sportbike models like the ER6F (Ninja), ER6N, or in this case, the late model motor from the EX650.

the Versys i delivered to Anchorage for an inmate had the OEM Versys motor, 5000 miles, and the difference in performance was notable from the first mile. the bike ran fine, did the job, but i was wishing for the HP and torque found in my custom rat bikes. the late model Versys motors have narrowed the performance variance.

the "cop motor" reference is from Elwood Blues, but in this case is 649cc, not 440ci. i've used the term for a decade to describe the tune on that motor.

the OEM Versys motor in the parts bike might be good, it's certainly not locked up, i just never checked since it wasn't on the build sheet.
With these "cop motor" swaps, do you use the Versys wiring harness + the Versys ECU or the Ninja wiring harness + the Ninja ECU or a mix of both?
Thank you
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I just shuffle slower.
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post #43 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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With these "cop motor" swaps, do you use the Versys wiring harness + the Versys ECU or the Ninja wiring harness + the Ninja ECU or a mix of both?
Thank you
good question...

on previous bikes, i was able to bring both cop motor and main wiring harness over to the Versys frame from the ER6F/N parts bike. the motors were direct swaps, and the harnesses were identical in all the primary connections, with the differences being relatively minor, harness length, signals, brake, ECU location and orientation. all easy fixes, no problems.

the 2012 EX650 was a completely new generation bike, Kawasaki kept the motor, suspension, wheels, brakes, but everything else was new. motor still swaps, but the wiring harness does not, huge problem. the main difference with the 2012 is that the ECU was now located under the front of the fuel tank instead of under the rear of the seat, plus many of the sensors connected to the ECU were also relocated. did i say different wire gauges and count, resistors all over the place, that too.

obviously, there's a little story in there, might be some photos too.
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post #44 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 05:29 PM
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the OEM coolant tank doesn't work on these bikes, too big, poorly located, and easily damaged plastic construction. i can't have any of that.

the new design criteria said the tank should be smaller at 3-400ml, steel construction, sit behind the main frame tube, and hard mount directly to existing attachment points on the frame. small, inconspicuous, tuck in tight, got it.

the new tank is fabricated from rectangular steel tube, and is radiused at the front corner to fit closer to a gusset on the frame behind the radiator. a M14 socket head on a weld nut, and using an O ring is used for the fill/drain port. common barbed brass fittings and copper suction line make up the assembly, and are glued to the tank and each other with JB Weld. the top rear mount on the bottle is welded in place, the only practical way to get it right...



prime, paint, install.
Great fabrication skills, practical and does the work.
I was just thinking that the SS bottle would be in danger if you drop the bike, I couldn't tell how much the crash bar would protect it.

I want to see the new fabricated "tank" installed!!

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post #45 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
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Great fabrication skills, practical and does the work.
I was just thinking that the SS bottle would be in danger if you drop the bike, I couldn't tell how much the crash bar would protect it.

I want to see the new fabricated "tank" installed!!
ok, ok, i'll get ya a photo.

the bottle was behind the engine bars, but only half the bottle was behind the face of the frame tube. the bottle was used 10 years ago on that bike, and there were lots of clones after i put up the how-to photos. i have a proven ability to get these bikes seriously upside down, so the tank had to be in tighter.

a short time after the photos were up, i got a PM from a rider in Belgium "I want to use that bottle, but i can't get it here. Please send me a link to your source in the States, and I'll have a guy bring it to me when he flies over here."

i provided a link to the item on the Walgreen's site, but they usually stocked them in the stores, $2.99 each, or two for $5. i got a thank you later on, his buddy had arrived in Belgium with a pair of those kid's stainless bottles.
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post #46 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 05:56 PM
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the OEM coolant tank doesn't work on these bikes, too big, poorly located, and easily damaged plastic construction. i can't have any of that.




the new design criteria said the tank should be smaller at 3-400ml, steel construction, sit behind the main frame tube, and hard mount directly to existing attachment points on the frame. small, inconspicuous, tuck in tight, got it.

the new tank is fabricated from rectangular steel tube, and is radiused at the front corner to fit closer to a gusset on the frame behind the radiator. a M14 socket head on a weld nut, and using an O ring is used for the fill/drain port. common barbed brass fittings and copper suction line make up the assembly, and are glued to the tank and each other with JB Weld. the top rear mount on the bottle is welded in place, the only practical way to get it right...





prime, paint, install.
Just a question as to coolant, are you running any rust inhibitor in this unit? Both ethylene and propylene glycol will produce rust and turn the coolant brown.
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post #47 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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...I want to see the new fabricated "tank" installed!!
just for you, my friend.

the hex head plug gets swapped for a SS socket head, if i can find it, damn thing done disappeared in the shop.

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post #48 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 08:27 PM
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just for you, my friend.

the hex head plug gets swapped for a SS socket head, if i can find it, damn thing done disappeared in the shop.


Thanks! it looks OEM-ish
it is well protected? I know a few photos you posted with your bikes with the rubber in the wrong direction

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post #49 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 08:30 PM Thread Starter
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Just a question as to coolant, are you running any rust inhibitor in this unit? Both ethylene and propylene glycol will produce rust and turn the coolant brown.
when all fabrication is 100% complete on the tank, the inside is treated with rust converter. i could be mistaken, but all brand name anti-freeze contains rust inhibitor right out of the jug. a dedicated rust inhibitor can be added to anti-freeze, but i've never used it in any application. this isn't the first bike using this style of tank, and i've never seen anything but clean coolant, no discoloration.
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post #50 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-03-2019, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks! it looks OEM-ish
it is well protected? I know a few photos you posted with your bikes with the rubber in the wrong direction
the coolant tank on this bike is one of the components that gets some up-armor protection, more to follow on that subject.
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post #51 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 06:55 AM Thread Starter
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KLR650 offset side stand, 85mm extension

with the custom suspension at both ends, no surprise, the bike gets taller, now more in line with the specs for some of those other big name and expensive motos that are advertised running roads to all the cool places. hmmmm, let's do the grade school arithmetic, $20,000/$500=40, holy cow, y'all can own one of those or forty V649s. man, don't have room for 40, better stick with one.

taller, but how much taller? using the OEM 2008+ KLR650 sidestand as a handy gauge, the answer would be this much taller...



those blocks of wood translate to 85mm, the length of the KLR sidestand extension. don't bother trying to extend an ER6 sidestand, the KLR has heavier gauge tube, uniform diameter, larger foot, and has the all important offset bend. as many know, the sidestands have a somewhat loose fit at the mount, and without the tubing offset, the foot will tend to contact the swingarm when it's extended.

these sidestands used to be cheap, but when my photos went up, so did the price of used sidestands. the sidestand gets cut up right off the bat, be a shame to cut up a new one.

KLR sidestand with return spring. the KLR spring is required, it's a higher spring rate for this heavier sidestand...



mark an index line to help with reassembly, then make the cuts on both sides of the lower straight section. the extension tubing i've always used is just a section sourced from a bent metric handlebar which happens to match the metric ID of the sidestand tubing. add 20-25mm at each end in addition to the extension length...





both sections of sidestand are drilled for a future plug weld, then the sidestand is reassembled, paying attention to the index marks. the sidestand should be mounted on the bike before welding to determine if the foot is landing correctly, sometimes it needs correction by a degree or two. the extension gets a plug weld and filet weld on both ends...



now you have an extended sidestand, but two different tubing ODs, that just won't cut it. clean the paint off the exposed extension tubing, then fill that section with bondo and smooth. it's perfect, no one will know it's not an OEM part...



must have been a huge amount of work to get it ready for paint, nope, it's easy. 85mm extension, but a half sheet of sandpaper is 140mm, and overlaps the extension to ride on the sidestand tubing, insuring that the bondo ends up exactly the same size...



extended sidestand on the roller moto...

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post #52 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 06:32 PM
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KLR650 offset side stand, 85mm extension

it looks so cool!

the rear hugger seems a little bit small? especially where you want to bring this bike.

I didn't know what's missing... but it looks interesting without muffler and chain

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post #53 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-04-2019, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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it looks so cool!

the rear hugger seems a little bit small? especially where you want to bring this bike.

I didn't know what's missing... but it looks interesting without muffler and chain
looks like a mile of ground clearance without the rest of the parts stuck on there, but it eventually comes back down to earth. still great clearance, which is why i don't worry about the Leo Vince mounted low rather than upswept as in rally style.

the hugger is fine, and the way the swingarm is designed also provides a blockoff. no matter what you do, fines and other small debris still gets tossed forward.
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post #54 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 08:13 AM Thread Starter
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Warp9 320mm front rotor, ER6 caliper, custom double offset caliper mount, SS brake line

DR650 custom spoke front wheel with KX forks, pretty easy swap, and that's a discussion for another day. let's talk about brakes instead.

the DR650 uses a single 280mm front rotor, but is every bit of 100# lighter than a V649, so in my view, i ain't goin' to fool with a 280 up front. i had run both 310s and 320s on the front with good success, so the mission was to swap the DR 280 to a new aftermarket 320, sounds easy, but wasn't.

the DR650 is often trimmed out as a super moto, and there were sources that sold a 320mm rotor for that use, but they all wanted to sell the rotor as a kit complete with the billet adapter for use with the DR forks/caliper. that adapter wouldn't work for me, no sale.

after a number of un-returned phone calls and emails from various vendors, i called Warp9 directly, spoke to the marketing guy, explained the situation, and asked if Warp9 could sell me their 320 rotor directly. he said "Sure, I can do that, no problem, give me 15 minutes to find out the details, I'll email you the price and payment info." the guy gave me a very favorable price, and i got my new rotor in the mail a short time later. shout out to Warp9 for stepping up.

320mm Warp9 on wheel, dinky OEM rotor in front...



now that i have the rotor, i can get busy and fab the adapter that will mate the 320, ER6 two piston caliper, and KX fork mount. these adapters are not difficult to design, but they are irregular in shape to fit the caliper, and require precise measurement to locate the holes. one pair is tapped, the other not, and if you're a stray mm off, then you start over.

there are two common methods to locate these holes, careful measurement, and transfer punch. i've used both with success, and this particular adapter used transfer punches. either way, use metric scales for the layout work, or to check the punch dimples.

new adapter with shortened and re-threaded caliper bolts...



adapter on ER6 caliper from the EX650 parts bike...



spoke wheel with new brake assembly...

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Last edited by jdrocks; 04-05-2019 at 11:16 AM.
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post #55 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 03:52 PM
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spoke wheel with new brake assembly...

yeah, you make it look so simple..... kudos!
and keep it coming.

Not sure if in Canada can find so many parts, you look only around your area?

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post #56 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-05-2019, 07:03 PM Thread Starter
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yeah, you make it look so simple..... kudos!
and keep it coming.

Not sure if in Canada can find so many parts, you look only around your area?

it is simple, heck, i'm giving y'all the recipes. still don't get, then just ask. i get asked lots of questions.

plenty of parts available in the States for these custom bikes, whether it's parts from ER6 platform bikes, or swap in parts from other makes and models. acquiring two ridiculously cheap parts bikes for this build is a good example, ya just can't do that in some other places.

even in the States, good deals don't just magically fall into your hands, ya have to put some effort into the search. shopping takes almost as much time as the wrench work if the goal is a cheap ass custom moto.

it's a fun challenge to do a budget build, for me anyway. for some context, a friends new 12GSA fell over when he parked above some soft ground, and the repair bill was $4200USD to make it new again. my red frame bike wrecked in West Virginia a couple years ago, and it was upside down on the far side of an embankment when i found it, the darn thing slid a long way, and i couldn't even see it from where i landed. i rode it home, then made the repairs for about $200, good as new.

i'm at the end of the road here, so my parts come from other locations, some fairly near, others not so near.
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post #57 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-06-2019, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
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DR650 17 rear wheel, Buchanan HD rim/spokes, 520 46T sprocket, custom spacers

this moto gets a custom spoke wheel on the rear that's based on the late model DR650 hub assembly and matches the front in specification, same rim, same spokes, etc. The wheel replaces the OEM ER6 cast rear wheel...



with this one...



first on the list is axle size, i already knew that the DR rear used a 20mm axle, same as the ER6 motos, and even uses the same wheel bearings, scratch that problem off the list. i did not consider any wheels for the rear that did not use a cush drive sprocket carrier.

while the DR uses a 525 sprocket, i also knew that there were 520 rear sprockets available to match up with the 520 drive sprocket on the cop motor. 46T in 520 mounted on DR cush drive...



next up is to determine the width of the OEM wheel assembly, including wheel spacers, easy enough to do by inserting the axle in the OEM wheel with the wheel spacers and caliper mount in place, marking the axle with a scribe, then measuring. the dimension should match the measurement taken at the inside faces of the axle mount on the swingarm. the number produced is the dimension required for the DR wheel complete with spacers/mount.

right here is where the fun starts. the sprockets need to align just like the OEM setup, or forget any chain life. the DR hub is much narrower than the ER6 hub, but since the sprocket alignment must match, i can use the OEM wheel to get the dimension from the outside face of the OEM wheel spacer to the outside face of the OEM sprocket. i can do the same thing with the DR wheel/520 sprocket, now i know the dimension of the of the spacer that gets added to the DR for perfect sprocket alignment.

with the new spacer combo on the left, the wheel gets mounted for a try fit on centering, not bad at all when checked against available fixed reference points. i don't give a hoot if the wheel is off by a mm or two, it doesn't affect anything performance wise.

if the wheel won't center after sprocket alignment, then you're faced with a problem, and the only real solution is a sprocket spacer. the spacer is machined as a concentric mount on the hub, the only safe way to go about it. not difficult if you have some skills and CNC equipment, this little jewel of a sprocket spacer was machined by a friend for a different application...



ok, got the sprocket alignment, got the wheel center, how about the right side of the hub. damn, got a big freakin' mess over there.

(to be continued)
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post #58 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 07:56 AM Thread Starter
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the right side of this custom wheel swap has multiple issues, all intersecting one way or another...wheel spacers, rotor, caliper, anti-rotation caliper mount.

the total length of the wheel spacers can be calculated, or simply measured since the length of left side of the wheel assembly is now known, as is the total required length. subtract one from the other, and you have the dimension of the spacer stack for the right side. this work can be accomplished very accurately with simple metric scales.

the first obstacle is the rear rotor size, ER6 uses 220mm, DR uses 240mm. a 220mm rotor from the DR350 can be swapped to the DR650 hub, but the 350 rotor has the thickness common to dirtbike rotor, 20-25% thinner than the rotor on larger bikes. i can't have a thin rotor, but don't mind the larger 240mm diameter. bigger is better, now bigger brakes on both ends.

DR350 rotor 220mm...





staying with the 240mm rotor, so the wheel is reinstalled with the caliper mount, and an ER6 rear caliper is set on the rotor to get an idea of what will be required to make it work...



it's not unusual to employ a caliper spacer to mate the parts, and it's obvious that this adapter will be a double offset, with the mounting faces not in the same plane, or offset by more than the thickness of the adapter material itself. the adapter for the front caliper/rotor is a simple double offset for comparison.

cut a blank for the section that mounts to the caliper mount, drill, and tap...



cut the basic shape to fit the caliper without interference...



refine and smooth for clearance...



try fit on the caliper mount...



early on i'd made the decision to move the caliper mount to the left in order to reduce the lateral offset on the adapter...



now i could find the width of the second half of the adapter, cut the blank, then drill the caliper mounting holes...



the blank is cut to fit the other adapter section, leaving a margin for a double filet weld on both sides...



assemble adapter...



with the caliper mount moved left, the anti-rotation tab need to be extended so it's fully engaged with the mount...



mount the caliper, check the fit, hey, the adapter works great...



but, there's a handfull of wheel spacers along with the caliper mount, inconvenient for R&R rear wheel work. the loose pieces were stuck together with JB Weld, then mounted and clamped on a spare 20mm axle to insure alignment. now there's a two piece wheel spare, and a three piece wheel spacer...



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Last edited by jdrocks; 04-09-2019 at 07:46 PM.
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post #59 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 03:45 PM
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nice detailed work.
I like that you move fast, don't waste time and the build advances at an amazing pace.
what is the deadline you want to have it ready?
total build time?

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post #60 of 110 (permalink) Old 04-08-2019, 08:56 PM Thread Starter
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^^^^^takes awhile to put these together, right now you're kinda getting the TIVO version with all the commercials deleted.
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