I am looking to borrow the ECU #21175-1219 from one of you guys that will store his Versys 1000 for the winter. From online catalogs, this 21175-1219 ECU is fitted on 2017 and 2018 canadian and US (non California) models. I would borrow it for a few weeks and send it back to you. Needless to say that I would pay shipping back and forth and would pay you a fee we can agree on.
If anyone is willing to help, please PM me and we'll agree on the conditions.
In case you would ask, the reason I need this ECU is written below.
*** Reason why I need this ECU ***
Last spring, I got my ECU remapped locally by a guy using Woolich Racing hardware and software. What he told me he did is to download a new map in my ECU and to turn off something like fuel cut-off to smooth out the throttle transition at low opening. The bike works great, as the smoother throttle operation is very noticeable and I really enjoy it. I do not regret this modification except for one thing: since then, the cluster's "check engine" yellow light is always on.
I returned to his shop and he tried to solve this problem but no success. He told me that the map he downloaded in my ECU is from a US California ECU. Those california bikes surely have some emission crap that we do not have in Canada and the "check engine" light is probably detecting some emission stuff missing (hoses and valves?) on my bike. Needless to say that I can't leave my bike as is. I rode it all summer long that way but I want to solve this during next winter.
The guy (and Woolich Racing) told me the only solution would be for Woolich Racing to get a 21175-1219 ECU, take the map file out of it, map file that would be sent to him to be downloaded back in my ECU.
does this require cutting a window into the ECU? It does for the 650s.
I also wonder about any tuner who is making changes but hasn't worked with the exact model bike. I know of one tuner who "built" a flash and never even had possession of the bike. You can't just mix and match bikes and ECU #'s as you have found out. Plus, the tuner can't "guess" at fueling and timing, secondary mapping, etc,so unless all these guys are doing is turning some features off or on, I don't know how they are doing what they do regarding the real meat of the tuning.
No hole or window needs to be made on Versys 1000 ECU.
I'm a bit angry at the guy that did this as he should have saved my original map.
However, he's recommended and already made a lot of those remaps. I still wonder why he did mine that way...
Here's why - if he could read the ecu through the pins, he should have read the file and sent it to woolich. They would dump and format the file, and post it as the base file for your ECU. He couldn't save it as it wasn't formatted.
The most likely difference is whether or not your bike has a carbon canister. if you use the wrong bin file, you'll get the check engine light.
Some guys are just turning features off and on and calling it a flash. Well, I guess it is, but it doesn't have all the goodness. Yes, fuel cut delete helps. but if you don't trim the fuel you're adding, you actually hurt fuel economy. Same as shutting off the 02 sensors. That gets rid if some flatness, but now the fueling is to rich. Ignition timing on the v1000 is ridiculous. Way to much in many areas. To much timing pushes cylinder temps up against detonation. When I do ignition mapping, I stop at the point that there is no more power gain. There are places I've pulled 8* off my versys with zero power loss. You can't do this stuff unless you have a bike and in the case of power measurement, a dyno at your disposal. I hope your tuner did all these things. This is a very lengthy, time consuming process, but it's what makes a good tune. If he did do these things, you should be golden when he gets the right bin file and gets the check engine light off.
You are asking a lot, FYI I had my 2015 650 ABS ECU flashed by Steve, if you read the thread on this forum, you will find that his flash is very professional, it turned my bike into a superior machine. As to your dilema , consider that ECU is around $1000 Canadian from a dealer, consider this guy is asking you to borrow, frankly after reading your post, if I owned a V1000 , I sure wouldn't send you my ECU, what happens if it gets damaged? What should be done is have buddy buy one at his expense . Think about it, you promise not to damage it, that is going to need insurance to and from this guy in mailing, the original owner gets it back, several months later once spring arrives, he goes to start his V1000 and guess what, he has similar problems. Now what, you say it can't happen, all it takes is the original owner to have a static build up and touch the ECU pins to damage it, bottom line whether he damages it or this Woolwich racing, the end result is the same.
Here's why - if he could read the ecu through the pins, he should have read the file and sent it to woolich. They would dump and format the file, and post it as the base file for your ECU. He couldn't save it as it wasn't formatted.
The most likely difference is whether or not your bike has a carbon canister. if you use the wrong bin file, you'll get the check engine light.
Some guys are just turning features off and on and calling it a flash. Well, I guess it is, but it doesn't have all the goodness. Yes, fuel cut delete helps. but if you don't trim the fuel you're adding, you actually hurt fuel economy. Same as shutting off the 02 sensors. That gets rid if some flatness, but now the fueling is to rich. Ignition timing on the v1000 is ridiculous. Way to much in many areas. To much timing pushes cylinder temps up against detonation. When I do ignition mapping, I stop at the point that there is no more power gain. There are places I've pulled 8* off my versys with zero power loss. You can't do this stuff unless you have a bike and in the case of power measurement, a dyno at your disposal. I hope your tuner did all these things. This is a very lengthy, time consuming process, but it's what makes a good tune. If he did do these things, you should be golden when he gets the right bin file and gets the check engine light off.
You are asking a lot, FYI I had my 2015 650 ABS ECU flashed by Steve, if you read the thread on this forum, you will find that his flash is very professional, it turned my bike into a superior machine. As to your dilema , consider that ECU is around $1000 Canadian from a dealer, consider this guy is asking you to borrow, frankly after reading your post, if I owned a V1000 , I sure wouldn't send you my ECU, what happens if it gets damaged? What should be done is have buddy buy one at his expense . Think about it, you promise not to damage it, that is going to need insurance to and from this guy in mailing, the original owner gets it back, several months later once spring arrives, he goes to start his V1000 and guess what, he has similar problems. Now what, you say it can't happen, all it takes is the original owner to have a static build up and touch the ECU pins to damage it, bottom line whether he damages it or this Woolwich racing, the end result is the same.
I know it's a lot. Nobody here knows me but, honestly, I would never let down someone who helps me. If the ECU I borrow (assuming I can borrow one), gets damaged or lost I would buy a new one and send it to the person that lend it to me. I'm this kind of guy.
@claude
I don't want you to take it the wrong way, but this I can tell you, if you doubt it feel free to ask Steve , my understanding is if the ECU that I sent Steve was damaged by Steve, he would have replaced it at his expense. I can only speak for the V650 2015 which I had reflashed, he has a dyno and the flash he installed is his, developed by him, not copied from another site. My understanding is he has a flash for the V1000, not sure if he has one for the 2017.
@claude
I don't want you to take it the wrong way, but this I can tell you, if you doubt it feel free to ask Steve , my understanding is if the ECU that I sent Steve was damaged by Steve, he would have replaced it at his expense. I can only speak for the V650 2015 which I had reflashed, he has a dyno and the flash he installed is his, developed by him, not copied from another site. My understanding is he has a flash for the V1000, not sure if he has one for the 2017.
Wizard, no worry; I don't take it the wrong way for sure. I always like to have some advise. Honestly, the guy I sent my ECU to, suggested that I could buy a new ECU to solve my problem... His help would be that he could help me to get it at dealer cost as he knows some dealers... I really don't think he would do it from his own pocket...
Knowing what I now know, I obviously would not have sent him my ECU...
NOTE: Sorry if my written english is sometimes "strange" or unusual; I'm a french speaking guy trying his best in english...
Claude, here's a better workaround. If you can find someone near you with a v1000, have him bring the bike to the guy who flashed your bike, and tell the tuner to read the file and send it to woolich. The tuner is done with the donor / helper bike at that point, and it didn't take weeks.
Steve, no dyno or tuning has been made. Heck, I sent my ECU by Canada Post and got it back the same way.
I was not looking for a complete remap; I mostly wanted to get rid of the abrupt throttle shut-off and low opening. I believe the only thing that the guy made was to turn off something like fuel cut-off. I'm no expert and I write it the way I understood it when he told me.
Beside comfort mods and electrical accessories, my bike is 100% stock and (while it would be nice as I come off 21 years of riding ZX-11s) I'm not really looking for more power.
I'm a bit angry at the guy that did not made a back-up of my OEM map.
Also, the guy can't read and record the map of an ECU. From his words, if he can get his hands on an ECU like mine, he will have to send it at Woolich's (in Austria) for them to read and record the map, send it to the "tuner" for him to dowlaod it back in my ECU. So, your suggestion of finding a local guy with a 2017-2018 Versys 1000 would not work, unless this guy accept to lend me his ECU to be sent overseas...
Does any guy here already have the OEM map/program of ECU 21175-1219?
If so, would it be possible for you to send it my way (e-mail [if such a thing is possible] or postal way on an USB key).
Of course, I would pay all the expenses and even a reward!
That would be really wonderful !!
Please let me know.
NOTE: again, this 21175-1219 ECU is for 2017-2018 Canada models and 2017-2018 US (except CA) models.
That's quite a deal, he messes up on the ecu and tells you he'll get you a deal on a new one. Nice.
I have flashed well over 1000 ecu's. People mail them to me insured, I load my maps and send them back (maps I build on my own model of that bike) .
I have only had one mishap in all of those. The ECU was crushed in transit. Of course it was insured for 1100.00 but I didn't want the customer to have to wait on the postal insurance to be approved, so I bought another new ECU (almost 1000.00), reflashed it, and sent it to the customer. This was for a Concours14, which has security known as kipass. i also paid for the customers dealer trip to get the ECU recognised by the kipass unit. I was reimbursed when the insurance came in.
It would have been cheaper had there been used ecu's on Ebay, but this was a couple year old new gen ecu and none were on ebay yet.
Which brings up a point... have you looked on Ebay?
Yes, Ebay is the first place I checked. Only new ones for OEM retail of ~$1400 CDN.
Having my ECU flashed again is, or course, an option. I already e-mailed Hilltop (in UK) as they are praised on one of the Versys 1000 forum I am frequenting.
However, I think it is quite far away...
Because you're in Florida, it would be more tempting for me, particularly with the good words I read about you upper in this thread. How does it work with you?
I mean, I send you the ECU the postal way and you do your magic on it?
What's the cost?
What are the benefits?
What is, roughly, the turnaround time?
But first question: Can you flash my ECU to CDN/US (49 state) specs if it currently have US CA map inside?
You can answer in PM or by e-mail if you prefer.
I will give the local guy here a few weeks to see how it turn out and, from there, I will decide what to do. But I lost my faith in him...
I will winter store my Versys soon and the ECU will then become "available".
Let me say, if I had a V1000 and was within 500 KM you would be seeing me with my bike. During my career the most hated thing that I encountered was when a customer got another electrical company or service to fix a problem I worked on. I made mistakes, many times the faults were multiple ones, I would run things after repair for several hours, if all was good I would do a write up and leave. Most of the cases I encountered , possibly 4 in my over 35 year career , the customer's were usually first time and rather than call me back, they would get a engineer from the US to fly up or if one was in Ontario get him there ASAP. First if I did make a mistake, I wanted to correct it and at my expense if indeed it was, out of those 4, 3 of them were cases of customers holding information back , Usually a poorly trained operator was at fault and other issues weren't disclosed to me , in one case they thought to challenge me , ( imagine walking into a doctors office and saying there was something wrong with you, and stopping there , I don't feel well , in my case it doesn't run)
So where I am going with this post, it is very admiral to withhold the name, in the hopes this guy comes through for you. I would suggest giving him a link to this thread, no membership is required to view this. I would say that what you describe is 100 % true and you haven't left anything out. I think you realize this forum is a good place to belong to. Even though this is a V1000 thread, the experience may help others on this forum.
So where I am going with this post, it is very admiral to withhold the name, in the hopes this guy comes through for you. I would suggest giving him a link to this thread, no membership is required to view this. I would say that what you describe is 100 % true and you haven't left anything out. I think you realize this forum is a good place to belong to. Even though this is a V1000 thread, the experience may help others on this forum.
As you said, all I wrote is 100% true, at least at the height of my undertsanding of the remap process. I'm no expert at all but I'm an engineer by trade and I can analyse technical discussions.
My goal here is not to expose the guy that made the mistake on my ECU. My goal is to find a solution to this very unpleasing situation. Thanks again guys for your support! It is really appreciated.
What is the error code you get, the test is the same as for the 650 ABS, pushing the left meter button (while in km mode,total mileage registered on bike) and holding the button for 2 or more seconds. The code is displayed lower right of the meter. They may be a way to cheat and tell the ECU that a canister is attached, this has been done, supplying the correct voltage input using a resistor, just going by memory here.
What is the error code you get, the test is the same as for the 650 ABS, pushing the left meter button (while in km mode,total mileage registered on bike) and holding the button for 2 or more seconds. The code is displayed lower right of the meter. They may be a way to cheat and tell the ECU that a canister is attached, this has been done, supplying the correct voltage input using a resistor, just going by memory here.
Glen, the error code I get is "3A".
According to repair manual this code is for:
"Purge valve malfunction, wiring open, or short to ground or power supply wire".
The purge valve is an emission part that only California bikes have; I can see it on the wiring diagram for "equipped bikes" (ie: California)
Oh BTW, some guys (another forum) suggested to visit a Kawasaki dealer thinking they could erase the error code or download the OEM map back in my ECU.
So, FYI, I'm just back from the closest Kawasaki dealer and there's nothing he can do. He said only motocrossers and some hypersport models have changeable ECU "sticks" with some pre-programmed maps.
Well this is one of those cases that you would need to waste about 7 watts of energy to fix the problem.I found some information on the Purge valve, 30 to 34 ohms at 68'F. The problem is it draws about 417 milliamp at 14.2 VDC, which is 5.93 watts. You would need a 10 watt resistor at 30 to 34 ohms , or two 5 watt resistors at 60 to 68 ohms. The way it works is the ECU has shunt resistor that measure voltage drop, let us say 0.1 ohms, so when the purge plug is connected and drawing 417 milliamp the ECU sees 4.17 VDC. My preference would be to get the ECU flash corrected. Just saying, that likely will clear the fault.
Well this is one of those cases that you would need to waste about 7 watts of energy to fix the problem.I found some information on the Purge valve, 30 to 34 ohms at 68'F. The problem is it draws about 417 milliamp at 14.2 VDC, which is 5.93 watts. You would need a 10 watt resistor at 30 to 34 ohms , or two 5 watt resistors at 60 to 68 ohms. The way it works is the ECU has shunt resistor that measure voltage drop, let us say 0.1 ohms, so when the purge plug is connected and drawing 417 milliamp the ECU sees 4.17 VDC. My preference would be to get the ECU flash corrected. Just saying, that likely will clear the fault.
This is an option that has been mentionned in another forum where I wrote the same request (to borrow an ECU).
Looks like it could work. I even looked to the cost of buying the missing purge valve but I'm not sure my ECU do have the #13 pin where the valve's Red/Yellow wire is to be connected. If I ever choose this option, I will wait my bike to be winter stored and will take the ECU off to look for this #13 pin. But, honestly, I would prefer to solve the problem at the root than converting my bike to California specs only because of the bin file downloaded in my ECU.
All this being written, today, I spoke with the tuner I dealt with. Looks like he did not forget me as he told me he found the ECU I need that he will borrow from the Kawasaki dealer he knows the owner of.
He will have it sent oversea to Woolich's for them to read the bin file that he will finally download back in my ECU.
All in all, he admitted the first step for him should have been to send my ECU to Woolich the day he received it. He was sorry about this and I believe him.
This guy do have a lot of experience and if all ends well (as both him and I are hoping), this will be a closed case. I don't want to tell who he is as anybody can make mistakes.
To be followed (hopefully before the end of 2019...).
We all make mistakes. The measure of a man is if he admits it and makes it right. I like what I'm reading.
I also wanted to add that for those of us flashing, there really is no book or even guidelines on how to do this stuff. A lot of it is trial and error. After a while you get the hang of it, but for the most part you need to be very self reliant. Because Woolich is widely available, "tuner" are going to pup up all over the place. It's going to take a determined person who understands customer service to make it flashing ECU's. Those who are disreputable will fall by the wayside pretty quickly.
Follow-up just to close the loop.
****************************************
A I wrote in post #28, the guy found (and borrowed) a 2018 ECU (same as my 2017's) from a Kawasaki dealer and sent it to Woolich. It came back and I finally received a corrected ECU. I installed it and, as wished, the "engine" light goes off as soon as I started the engine.
I waited until yesterday as it was my first ride of the year and I'm pleased to say that all is perfect now.
I'm very happy that the guy supported me and finally solved my problem.
****************************************
NB: Steve, I'm still really interested at having my ECU flashed by you. I'm in no hurry though but let us know when you're ready for 2017/2018 models.
Oh, I forgot...
Steve, you more than likely already know but Woolich racing do have the info about the 2017/2018 Canada & US ECU. I know because the unit with a hole (now sealed) is the one currently installed on my own bike.
I have an open silencer and removed the CAT. all I did was fitting the booster plug to compensate. I see no reason to have more power. the bike is TOO powerful already. if you are not racing, why do you need to much power? to kill yourself on the road?
Uh? Where did I wrote I want more power?
I think you replied under the wrong post...
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