An Interesting Exercise. What do you think it means? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-29-2018, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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An Interesting Exercise. What do you think it means?

My company does cinematography work around the world. We’re tech and cinema nerds on two wheels! Because we film primarily locations and nature, motorcycles play a big part in what we do as they allow us to access places other vehicles simply cannot faster, more affordably and, believe it or not, much more safely. A few months ago, one of my photogs asked if everyone waves to other riders they encounter. All 22 photogs said they did. I personally think of it as courtesy. I do too, despite missing the chance to return the occasional wave during maneuvers.

We decided to capture initiated and returned waves for 30 days, noting bike manufacturers when possible, or type of bike when manufacturer was unknown. While a quite unscientific sample audience, we encountered 3243 riders, with 51% of the overall group being Harleys. (Any sample over 384 is statistically significant to +/-3%.) While not statistically analyzed, these numbers are certainly interpretable and actionable. We allocated 5% for bikers who could not safely initiate or respond to a wave. Here are our rounded results.

Harley - 12% returned or initiated a wave.
Kawasaki - 94% returned or initiated a wave.
Yamaha - 92% returned or initiated a wave.
Indian - 26% returned or initiated a wave.
Honda - 74% returned or initiated a wave.
Ducati - 96% returned or initiated a wave.
Triumph - 54% returned or initiated a wave.
Suzuki - 71% returned or initiated a wave.
BMW - 91% returned or initiated a wave.
KTM - 97% returned or initiated a wave.

Other Cruiser - 61% returned or initiated a wave.
Other ADV - 92% returned or initiated a wave.
Other Sport - 99% returned or initiated a wave.
Other Touring - 97% returned or initiated a wave.


An interesting aside, we are seeing more ADV riders than ever before. Perhaps the greatest increase we’ve noticed is that of women bikers. While many are on cruisers, presumably because of shorter inseam requirements, we have noticed many more women (of ALL ages) entering the ADV segment thanks in part to bikes like Versys 300’s and BMW 310’s. According to most women my teams spoke with, ADV biking simply interests them and fits their lives more than cruising. Women are no longer happy sitting behind a male driver and are increasingly stepping out on their own. As with most things, cycling demographics are becoming increasingly blurred. Could it be women who finally turn the US markets if given the opportunity?

Another caveat is that some manufacturers build almost every bike type, like Honda. Harley builds predominately cruisers. However Kawasaki and Yamaha cruisers were negligible - under 16 in this sample, but represented more than 38% of all manufacturers represented in our sample. Because of this, not all manufacturers can be segmented accurately.

My question is, do you wave and return? What do you see in these numbers? Is there a cultural difference among biker types? Manufacturers?

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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-29-2018, 08:16 PM
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I generally give the two finger salute. I would say that Harley riders are the least likely to return it. Sport and DS riders are the most likely. Scooter riders almost always return it.
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-29-2018, 09:29 PM
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Other than the road glides which are still pretty rare, how do you know that the bike coming the other way is a Harley and not just another cruiser with a batwing installed?

You sure must know a lot about bikes to determine exactly what brand the oncoming riders are riding.

I wave but am too busy keeping my bike where it needs to be to determine the actual brand unless it is obvious like goldwings and BMW R models.

I think you should have done a cross reference with the level of gear people were wearing.

Also, what types of roads you were on. Country scenic roads verses commuting roads.

I have noticed that those with no gear are less likely to wave even if I am on my Harley because I am in gear and full face helmet. I have also noticed that BMW riders are less likely to wave back when I am on my Harley.

I have also noticed that areas where riders commute every day like Florida the locals are less likely to wave unless it is the weekend or out on country roads.

I really don't care if anyone waves back and in fact when I started riding I never heard of riders waving to each other. Not sure when this all started.
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-29-2018, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by twowheeladdict View Post
Other than the road glides which are still pretty rare, how do you know that the bike coming the other way is a Harley and not just another cruiser with a batwing installed?

You sure must know a lot about bikes to determine exactly what brand the oncoming riders are riding.

I wave but am too busy keeping my bike where it needs to be to determine the actual brand unless it is obvious like goldwings and BMW R models.

I think you should have done a cross reference with the level of gear people were wearing.

Also, what types of roads you were on. Country scenic roads verses commuting roads.

I have noticed that those with no gear are less likely to wave even if I am on my Harley because I am in gear and full face helmet. I have also noticed that BMW riders are less likely to wave back when I am on my Harley.

I have also noticed that areas where riders commute every day like Florida the locals are less likely to wave unless it is the weekend or out on country roads.

I really don't care if anyone waves back and in fact when I started riding I never heard of riders waving to each other. Not sure when this all started.
These guys know bikes. They have ridden for decades and are students of motorcycling; many builders and mechanics among us. When a bike manufacturer was unidentifiable, the bike type alone was noted. Hard to get gear configs at 140mph crossing speeds. Roads were variable. The common factor was they all had bikes on them. We did not include off-road riders, which tend to be unwaveringly courteous.

Waving (saluting) has been a thing since Well before I started riding 4o years ago. Maybe these things are becoming an endangered species - roadside civility and courtesy, that is.

You mentioned other riders are less likely to respond when you’re on your Harley. Is it possible other bikers simply figure you won’t respond, so why bother? I am finding myself increasingly thinking that way, but still nod to most when I can’t wave. Nods are returned more often in my experience.

“It would be nice to spend billions on schools and roads, but right now that money is desperately needed for political ads.”

Andy Borowitz

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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-30-2018, 10:40 AM
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All for the two finger salute over here. Except when maneuvering.. I turn to the nod if possible. Harley's are usually pretty good at waving here in Wisconsin, but it is the land of Harleys and the land of nice mid-westerners.

The exception is trikes and scooters, no wave for you!
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-30-2018, 12:38 PM
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All for the two finger salute over here. Except when maneuvering.. I turn to the nod if possible. Harley's are usually pretty good at waving here in Wisconsin, but it is the land of Harleys and the land of nice mid-westerners.

The exception is trikes and scooters, no wave for you!
I have to defer to the nod when clutching around. Safety first! I'm also kind of the same on the trikes and scooters, but if one waves at me I'll acknowledge them back, just not with the "salute", maybe a generic wave or something. At first I was like "I'm not waving to scooters", but I figure they took the time to wave first, they are on two wheels, and I don't want to be d-bag. The sport of motorcycling isn't as popular as we all want it to be, at least not here in the US, so I do want to make it as friendly as possible because scooters are the gateway drug to motorcycles for many, so I don't want to turn them off to being one of us and helping the sport grow.

But about the Harleys, I usually get a wave from most here in the Atlanta area, but I don't get them from the "tough guy" crowd (e.g. leather vest, skull cap, ape hangers, etc). Maybe the Versys (Gen 3) is a little too sporty looking for them to think we're relevant. Oh well.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-30-2018, 01:21 PM
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I always wave...mostly I'm the first. I get 90% waves back (including Harleys) but I'd say Harleys are the 10% who don't wave back. I nod when using clutch too. I do wave at Harley trikes and all scooters but not a can-am spider or slingshot or something.

Side story: I was in my car with my wife and our two young kids when we drove past about 15 Harleys stopped at a light. I pointed at them (not in a rude way and I'm surprised they even saw me) and smiled and told my kids "look at all the cool motorcycles". The first guy preceded to flip me off. Bunch of jerks. I bet all those guys are flipping out right now about the electric Harley that's planned lol. Maybe riders on those will be nicer.
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-30-2018, 01:40 PM
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-30-2018, 02:47 PM
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...My question is, do you wave and return? What do you see in these numbers? Is there a cultural difference among biker types? Manufacturers?
Whenever I see another cycle (which DOES include scooters, as well as 'trikes') I try to wave, and I wave HIGH to my left.

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Originally Posted by 1largebarge View Post
...The exception is trikes and scooters, no wave for you!
Tsk, tsk....

The ONLY "cycle-THING" I will NOT wave to are those Polaris three-wheelers (the SLINGSHOT), as they are JUST a car w/ a missing wheel.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-30-2018, 05:38 PM
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Wow! I always wave to other riders or shake my head if left hand is busy. I'd say your study mimes my reality pretty well. Cruisers usually don't wave in my area. If they're riding in groups, perhaps 2 wave out of a group of 6. Nice compilation of data.
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-30-2018, 05:48 PM
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Wave / Thumbs Up / Passing / Stopped

I always give a wave when meeting up with oncoming bikes, I also do a thumbs up when approaching a stopped bike at the side of the road, something I was made aware of 5 years ago, when a group of bikes , some pocket rockets passed me, while I was stopped at the side of the road, had my helmet off and had the top case open, I needed to remove a layer of clothing and have a drink, one guy gave me a thumbs up ( are you okay?? ) and turned around to see my response, which I returned with a equal thumbs up, nothing like knowing someone has your back if you are stranded, that day I truly appreciated the fact there are bike riders out there like that.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-30-2018, 05:58 PM
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Out here in SoCal. Most all bikers wave no matter what they are riding...
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-31-2018, 05:46 AM
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My wife and I also ride a Can Am Spyder (She is a disabled Vet), and love being together and going places together. I kind of miss her when I am on my Versys! That being said, we do the cycle wave and it is always returned. Is it a true "motorcycle"? Don't know, but we love it.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-31-2018, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by twowheeladdict View Post
Other than the road glides which are still pretty rare, how do you know that the bike coming the other way is a Harley and not just another cruiser with a batwing installed?

You sure must know a lot about bikes to determine exactly what brand the oncoming riders are riding.

I wave but am too busy keeping my bike where it needs to be to determine the actual brand unless it is obvious like goldwings and BMW R models.

I think you should have done a cross reference with the level of gear people were wearing.

Also, what types of roads you were on. Country scenic roads verses commuting roads.

I have noticed that those with no gear are less likely to wave even if I am on my Harley because I am in gear and full face helmet. I have also noticed that BMW riders are less likely to wave back when I am on my Harley.

I have also noticed that areas where riders commute every day like Florida the locals are less likely to wave unless it is the weekend or out on country roads.

I really don't care if anyone waves back and in fact when I started riding I never heard of riders waving to each other. Not sure when this all started.
These guys know bikes. They have ridden for decades and are students of motorcycling; many builders and mechanics among us. When a bike manufacturer was unidentifiable, the bike type alone was noted. Hard to get gear configs at 140mph crossing speeds. Roads were variable. The common factor was they all had bikes on them. We did not include off-road riders, which tend to be unwaveringly courteous.

Waving (saluting) has been a thing since Well before I started riding 4o years ago. Maybe these things are becoming an endangered species - roadside civility and courtesy, that is.

You mentioned other riders are less likely to respond when you’re on your Harley. Is it possible other bikers simply figure you won’t respond, so why bother? I am finding myself increasingly thinking that way, but still nod to most when I can’t wave. Nods are returned more often in my experience.
I always initiate a wave regardless of what bike I am on.

That is the variable you are missing. What bike were you and your coworkers on, and did you always initiate the wave?

When I started street riding 37 years ago in Daytona Beach there were many motorcycles on the road. They were our transportation, not our hobby. Don't recall anyone waving back then. When I moved to TN and started riding the country roads I noticed more people waving even from their cars.

Where I live more college educated professionals are on Harleys and they mostly wave unless they are mid curve and too afraid to take a hand off.

When I am in a more blue collar and especially union worker area I notice the Harley Riders are definitely more snobby towards non Harley riders.

I am a bike enthusiast and am always up on bikes and I can't tell many of the look alike bikes apart from each other.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-31-2018, 07:04 AM
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I always wave...mostly I'm the first. I get 90% waves back (including Harleys) but I'd say Harleys are the 10% who don't wave back. I nod when using clutch too. I do wave at Harley trikes and all scooters but not a can-am spider or slingshot or something.

Side story: I was in my car with my wife and our two young kids when we drove past about 15 Harleys stopped at a light. I pointed at them (not in a rude way and I'm surprised they even saw me) and smiled and told my kids "look at all the cool motorcycles". The first guy preceded to flip me off. Bunch of jerks. I bet all those guys are flipping out right now about the electric Harley that's planned lol. Maybe riders on those will be nicer.
Ohio definitely appeared to have more MC club presence when I have ridden there. A lot of union work and buy American thinking. What brand car were you in? Were they wearing patches on their vests?
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-31-2018, 07:07 AM
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I always give a wave when meeting up with oncoming bikes, I also do a thumbs up when approaching a stopped bike at the side of the road, something I was made aware of 5 years ago, when a group of bikes , some pocket rockets passed me, while I was stopped at the side of the road, had my helmet off and had the top case open, I needed to remove a layer of clothing and have a drink, one guy gave me a thumbs up ( are you okay?? ) and turned around to see my response, which I returned with a equal thumbs up, nothing like knowing someone has your back if you are stranded, that day I truly appreciated the fact there are bike riders out there like that.
My protocol also. Whenever I see a motorcycle on the side of the road, with the passenger off the bike, I always slow down and give a thumbs up/thumbs down. Most times people just have to make a phone call. There are other times where they just stare at me so I've pulled over to ask if everything's OK.

***Unless it's a Harley on the side of the road. Then I normally point my finger and shake my helmet from side to side as I drive by.


****I'm kidding!
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-31-2018, 07:47 AM
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What I've noticed in my little part of the world is that the colder/wetter it is the more likely the "real" riders are to return my wave.
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-31-2018, 07:51 AM
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No Can-Am's in the survey! Too bad. When my wife is riding her Spyder, she always gives a wave if it's safe. But if she's not riding the Spyder, she's on her Piaggio MP3, so I guess that disqualifies her too! I always wave regardless of which bike I'm riding.
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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-31-2018, 08:01 AM
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Ohio definitely appeared to have more MC club presence when I have ridden there. A lot of union work and buy American thinking. What brand car were you in? Were they wearing patches on their vests?
Makes sense. I was in a Honda and they did have patches I think. We do have a HUGE Honda plant in Marysville, Ohio 30 minutes from Columbus though so they give us a lot of jobs.
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 07-31-2018, 08:14 AM Thread Starter
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I always initiate a wave regardless of what bike I am on.

That is the variable you are missing. What bike were you and your coworkers on, and did you always initiate the wave?

When I started street riding 37 years ago in Daytona Beach there were many motorcycles on the road. They were our transportation, not our hobby. Don't recall anyone waving back then. When I moved to TN and started riding the country roads I noticed more people waving even from their cars.

Where I live more college educated professionals are on Harleys and they mostly wave unless they are mid curve and too afraid to take a hand off.

When I am in a more blue collar and especially union worker area I notice the Harley Riders are definitely more snobby towards non Harley riders.

I am a bike enthusiast and am always up on bikes and I can't tell many of the look alike bikes apart from each other.
Thanks for yor insight. Good point. We generally ride 2 different bikes. On location we use smaller BMW 800’s and 850’s. On the road to the location we use larger bikes for comfort. BMW R1200GS and a growing number of Versys 1000’s. Six guys run Goldwings, four ride BMW 1600’s. That is pretty much it. No Harley’s, Indian’s, cruisers or Lear Jets. We’re all over 40 - we want to sit straight up!

Like you said, we ride bikes for work. We really don’t do it for play so much. Most ride to location only when it’s a day or so away at most, or when they want to get together for an interesting trip. Otherwise they drive or fly. Internationally, we fly and rent bikes - always ADV. Our location bikes are carried to location in a chase truck/trailer or semi for larger shoots.

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