HD stores vs Japanese bike dealers - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-22-2014, 05:29 PM Thread Starter
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HD stores vs Japanese bike dealers

I witnessed an interesting contrast between how HD sells it's stuff vs how most Japanese motorcycle dealers sell their motorcycles this morning.

I accompanied a friend to the local HD dealership. 2/3 of the highly themed and decorated retail space was devoted to HD branded "stuff". The remaining 1/3 to a few bikes on display. They have a whole wall of HD branded dog accessories, not to mention several different kinds of HD pyjamas, a display case of HD watches, and walls of HD jackets, HD vests, HD jeans and HD shirts, hoodies, sweats and more. Most of the HD stuff is of high quality too and stylishly designed, although maybe over priced. Think Nike store or Roots quality and prices rather than Walmart. Eg. $45 T-shirts. I was approached several times by mature and professional sales people who used a soft sell approach. On the bikes they push the exclusivity of each model. "At $25,000 It's the ONLY purple sparkle, dark denim, dyna softail, screaming eagle, XLG extra chrome package in Canada and we just can't get any more". It gives you the impression they sell an exclusive, premium product, even though I'm worldly enough to know better.

This was in complete contrast to the Honda/Ducati dealer we went to next. The Honda dealer was a large undecorated space with unfinished concrete floors and bikes crammed into every available space. They had 10x the number of bikes on display though in the same size space. Apparel was basically stacked and hung where extra space allowed. It was a functional but not a "designed or styled" space. I got the feeling sales people were paid minimum wage as all the store staff was basically young adults. There was no push to sell bikes, if you asked someone would get you a price quote but that was about it.

It's easy to see why HD is as successful as they are. HD stores only sell HD bikes and their efforts at branding are legendary. In contrast most Japanese bikes simply allow independent dealers to pick up their product line and sell it with many other motorcycle brands any way they want it.

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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-22-2014, 06:21 PM
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Down here in P-town Oregon the largest dealer around has over 1/2 of their space devoted to gear and parts..more gear on display..but a very good parts counter...From what I've been told they make more on gear than they do bikes...I've gone there to try on gear before I buy online on occasion...I buy about 3/4 of my parts there...I bought my bike across the river in Vancouver at a shop were they told me they make more money on ATV's...Harley stores do have a ton of Harley stuff and Harley branded stuff..which if you're not riding a Harley is not of much use...Yup they are selling a "lifestyle" a little harder than their japanese counter parts..and if that's what you want great for them...most of the japanese themed gear comes in the racing/sportbike arena..which I guess is a lifestyle all of it's own...
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-22-2014, 06:23 PM
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HD sells a "Lifestyle" I read a few years back that they make more off the cloths and licenses than off the bikes. Nothing wrong with it at all they have make a great come back from the dark days of AMF. Only real downside is they have very few models to offer. And a lot of that is driven by the old school HD riders and their attitudes. IE All HD are air cools V twins of at least 1500cc or it's a "Girls Bike"

Most of the bikes at other shops have to make more money than the clothing the company as the rides who buy most of the Japanese bikes are on the lower end of the financial ladder than the HD guys are. They spend their cash on the bike and get gear off line! And there's nothing wrong with that.

The biggest problem is poor dealers. I bought one bike from a dealer and after the money was in the drawer he didn't even see me ride off or offer shake my hand he just disappeared into the back. Needless to say I won't drop a dime there ever again and tell everyone I know NOT to buy from that shop.

That's my take on it feel free to slap me down!

Or was that look THEN leap?
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-22-2014, 08:21 PM
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Of course in Canada more people are buying Christmas (you do observe Christmas?) gifts this time of year than motorcycles so I would expect the ratio you describe. Many of the Harley shops I stop in are more 50/50 or 60/40 bikes to branded products.

Have you priced Kawasaki T-shirts and other Japanese Apparel? It is pretty pricey as well.

Since I lost my local Japanese dealer, I have gone back to buying used bikes. There are just too many lightly used bikes on the market for a fraction of what dealers are selling them for.

Some of the European bike manufacturers are trying to go the exclusivity route with many of the dealers. They are demanding a separate entrance for their brand, and dedicated floorspace instead of mixing them in the showroom.

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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 04:50 AM
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Harley dealers around me are the only ones that will let you go on a test drive. Most of the time they ask me if id like to test out the model im looking at. All other imported dealers id have to get on a demo, once one came in. Or hop on something similar and used, which was the case when i chose the V

HD is alllll about personalization. And with all the accessories there can really never be 2 of the same harley.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 07:48 AM
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Harley dealers around me are the only ones that will let you go on a test drive. Most of the time they ask me if id like to test out the model im looking at. All other imported dealers id have to get on a demo, once one came in. Or hop on something similar and used, which was the case when i chose the V

HD is alllll about personalization. And with all the accessories there can really never be 2 of the same harley.

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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 10:14 AM
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HD stores are just there to take retards money......
jap stores are there to sell quality
HD knows if they put there logo and or shinny things stupid people will throw there wallets at them


just my .02

and thats not to say all HD riders are retards
but you can spot the ones that are XD
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by twowheeladdict View Post
There are just too many lightly used bikes on the market for a fraction of what dealers are selling them for.
While I agree that may be the case for some, my personal experience differs. I am the guy who gets new bikes at prices that are fair to ME. Dealer has to make money, and I'd never be so bold to say that I put one over on them. They are definitely making a profit when I buy a new bike, just not what they're making off of others. What I see as far as used late model bikes from private sellers, are these guys who walked into the dealership one year ago, paid full MSRP (or more), plus "set up" fees, this fee and that fee, and ended up paying many thousands more than they should have.
Example: a dealer new bike that lists at $7500, I will pay in that ballpark INCLUDING all taxes, title, licensing, set up, etc. The next guy will pay $9k-10k for the same bike, because he falls for all of the unnecessary add ons. A year later, he is trying to sell it for $8k, and crying because he is taking a hit, then cries even harder when I explain that it's worth $6k. I can pick up a year or two newer model off the showroom floor, for the same price he is asking for one that sat under a tarp in his carport, with "only light scratches from a drop while stopped at a traffic light".
I buy used bikes. I just refuse to pay new bike prices for them.
YMMV

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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 03:08 PM
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While I agree that may be the case for some, my personal experience differs. I am the guy who gets new bikes at prices that are fair to ME. Dealer has to make money, and I'd never be so bold to say that I put one over on them. They are definitely making a profit when I buy a new bike, just not what they're making off of others. What I see as far as used late model bikes from private sellers, are these guys who walked into the dealership one year ago, paid full MSRP (or more), plus "set up" fees, this fee and that fee, and ended up paying many thousands more than they should have.
Example: a dealer new bike that lists at $7500, I will pay in that ballpark INCLUDING all taxes, title, licensing, set up, etc. The next guy will pay $9k-10k for the same bike, because he falls for all of the unnecessary add ons. A year later, he is trying to sell it for $8k, and crying because he is taking a hit, then cries even harder when I explain that it's worth $6k. I can pick up a year or two newer model off the showroom floor, for the same price he is asking for one that sat under a tarp in his carport, with "only light scratches from a drop while stopped at a traffic light".
I buy used bikes. I just refuse to pay new bike prices for them.
YMMV
I would tend to agree with you on the basis of money alone....if that were the only reason for buying used.

I am someone who gets new because im a narcissist. And that has been proven (for me) time and time again when it has come to used vehicles. The human condition is a lazy and ignorant one, and plenty of ppl dont know how to take care of their car OR bike

I also research like crazy, so i am well aware of what im getting into before making a several thousand dollar regret that i take a huge hit on........save the housing bubble burst of '08
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 03:10 PM
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While I agree that may be the case for some, my personal experience differs. I am the guy who gets new bikes at prices that are fair to ME. Dealer has to make money, and I'd never be so bold to say that I put one over on them. They are definitely making a profit when I buy a new bike, just not what they're making off of others. What I see as far as used late model bikes from private sellers, are these guys who walked into the dealership one year ago, paid full MSRP (or more), plus "set up" fees, this fee and that fee, and ended up paying many thousands more than they should have.
Example: a dealer new bike that lists at $7500, I will pay in that ballpark INCLUDING all taxes, title, licensing, set up, etc. The next guy will pay $9k-10k for the same bike, because he falls for all of the unnecessary add ons. A year later, he is trying to sell it for $8k, and crying because he is taking a hit, then cries even harder when I explain that it's worth $6k. I can pick up a year or two newer model off the showroom floor, for the same price he is asking for one that sat under a tarp in his carport, with "only light scratches from a drop while stopped at a traffic light".
I buy used bikes. I just refuse to pay new bike prices for them.
YMMV
I didn't say the most used bikes are a fraction. There are always the guys who want too much for their bikes. There are also manufacturers that you are never going to get the deals on new that you speak of.

I also buy new when the deal is right. I paid less than $6k for my Versys new in May of '11, but I could have also bought a '09 that was bought as a left over 6 months prior with only 3000 miles on it for $4000. Today most with '09s are wanting $5k.

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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by silviefox View Post
HD stores are just there to take retards money......
jap stores are there to sell quality
HD knows if they put there logo and or shinny things stupid people will throw there wallets at them


just my .02

and thats not to say all HD riders are retards
but you can spot the ones that are XD
Quite a strong opinion there silviefox. Had a bad experience with some HD riders?

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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 04:04 PM
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Today most with '09s are wanting $5k.
5k?? man where do you live??..because I got a deal for you....I bought my 2012 Versys last January 14th (2014) for exactly 6k..yeah I din't fall for all of those fees and crap...told 'em I had 6k..write it up how they wanted..6k was it...at the time I could've picked up a couple of used V's (2010 and 2011) completely equipped with bags or rear top cases for around 5k from private sales...There's a couple of 2008 and 2009's around for under 4k..all with ridiculously low mileage...I bought new because I wanted new..I have two used bikes already...What with the reliability of our V's..a used one that doesn't look abused with low mileage is always a deal around here...
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 06:03 PM
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5k?? man where do you live??..because I got a deal for you....I bought my 2012 Versys last January 14th (2014) for exactly 6k..yeah I din't fall for all of those fees and crap...told 'em I had 6k..write it up how they wanted..6k was it...at the time I could've picked up a couple of used V's (2010 and 2011) completely equipped with bags or rear top cases for around 5k from private sales...There's a couple of 2008 and 2009's around for under 4k..all with ridiculously low mileage...I bought new because I wanted new..I have two used bikes already...What with the reliability of our V's..a used one that doesn't look abused with low mileage is always a deal around here...
Want and getting are two different things. Sometimes a guy lists a bike just to see if anyone will bite.

Sometimes they list to appease their spouse at a price they know will take a while to sell.

You bought a two year old bike. The moment you rode it out of the showroom it was only worth what a 2 year old used bike is worth.

This past August, I passed on a 'new' '14 used at motoGP as a track worker bike that had less than 100 miles on it. The dealer had several for $5400 OTD. It was very tempting, but I guess I have grown accustomed to the Red V. Many of the other colors look too cartoonish in this bike that already has a unique look.

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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by twowheeladdict View Post
Quite a strong opinion there silviefox. Had a bad experience with some HD riders?
few bad few good. ive also had bad experience with japanese ,german,chinese,and korean bike riders as well.


im more of referring to there over charging for inferior parts and over priced clothing and what not just because its plastered with there logo...
they should charge less for the free rolling billboard
tho worst hd "encounter" was riding behind one and had a bolt come off his bike punchture my tire (plugged it) then about 20 miles later lowsided due to all the oil he was pukeing out on an on ramp
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-23-2014, 07:12 PM
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Any more I think HD bikes are pretty well made and reliable. It's not like the Bad Old Days under AMF when you be doing good to get home from the dealer with your new bike.

JD Powers listed them as #3 in owner satisfaction a few years back.

NOW BMW...lets just say they're on a BAD slide.

As far as bad experiences with HD owners I have very little...it's the twits who own the bumper sticker, T shirts, belt buckle, and bad attitude BUT no HD bike that seem to be most likely to talk trash.

What's funny to see is me on my KLR all covered in mud riding (like I have good sense!) with a couple of buds on their freshly washed and waxed HDs! BUT we have fun and that's all that matters, right?

Or was that look THEN leap?
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-24-2014, 11:28 AM
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HD sells a "Lifestyle" I read a few years back that they make more off the cloths and licenses than off the bikes. Nothing wrong with it at all they have make a great come back from the dark days of AMF. Only real downside is they have very few models to offer. And a lot of that is driven by the old school HD riders and their attitudes. IE All HD are air cools V twins of at least 1500cc or it's a "Girls Bike"

Most of the bikes at other shops have to make more money than the clothing the company as the rides who buy most of the Japanese bikes are on the lower end of the financial ladder than the HD guys are. They spend their cash on the bike and get gear off line! And there's nothing wrong with that.

The biggest problem is poor dealers. I bought one bike from a dealer and after the money was in the drawer he didn't even see me ride off or offer shake my hand he just disappeared into the back. Needless to say I won't drop a dime there ever again and tell everyone I know NOT to buy from that shop.

That's my take on it feel free to slap me down!
It may be that I'm reading this wrong but.....
Recent six months results - Harley Davidson
Motorcycle sales 2.43 billion $$$
Parts/Accessories sales 453.6 million $$$
General merchandise sales 153.8 million $$$


Last thing that I read at Forbes was that Genuine Harley-Davidson cloches/accessories/whatever branded merchandise came to roughly 7% of their total profit.


Source:


http://investor.harley-davidson.com/...ews&id=1840987

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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-24-2014, 01:15 PM
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sales $ are not profit $

they could sell $100 billion in bikes and take a loss but sell $100 million in merch and make 90 million in profit.

just saying that gross vs net is a bit different

however i do think that the bikes sell for a LOT more than tey cost to make. so i'm not surprised by the merch only being 7%
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-24-2014, 03:38 PM
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Just an add-on....i tested a street bob (last) and decided i didnt like the vibrations loosening my fillings, jiggling my hemerroids, or making my miniscule muscles look like shakey jell-o at a stoplight

I WILL say that the ride was very nice....and it felt very capable at speed.

Harleys are very good machines. I just wouldnt want one right now at my age. If i were to suddenly be rich or retire and get lazy but still need some sort of weekend thrill, id get one. But, im none of those things so ill stick with the V
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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-24-2014, 04:30 PM
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I've been in only one Harley dealership. I've been in many Japanese-motorcycle dealerships. The Harley salespeople are infinitely better. My wife was interested in buying a bike, and I was with her -- and the saleswoman talked to my wife, not to me. She asked my wife what she was looking for in a bike. In the Japanese dealerships, my wife shops for a bike and the salesmen talk to me.

The Harley store was decorated well and lighted well. You could walk around a bike when you were looking at it -- they weren't squeezed together just a foot apart, like in a Japanese dealership. The Harley salespeople wanted to sell bikes. They struck that fine balance between being too intrusive and being too aloof. Ask a Harley salesperson a question about a bike -- like, "How many gallons is the fuel tank?" -- and they'll know the answer.

The Harley saleswoman asked my wife questions, and she listened to the answers. She gave sound advice, in my opinion -- she recommended a Sportster.

The people on the Harley sales floor respected their customers and were friendly. Those qualities are rare among salespeople at Japanese dealerships.

(Ultimately my wife bought a used Burgman off of Craigslist.)

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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 11-24-2014, 06:03 PM
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Just an add-on....i tested a street bob (last) and decided i didnt like the vibrations loosening my fillings, jiggling my hemerroids, or making my miniscule muscles look like shakey jell-o at a stoplight

I WILL say that the ride was very nice....and it felt very capable at speed.

Harleys are very good machines. I just wouldnt want one right now at my age. If i were to suddenly be rich or retire and get lazy but still need some sort of weekend thrill, id get one. But, im none of those things so ill stick with the V
Sounds like a Street Bob is not a softail. You should try a softail. That engine uses a counterbalance instead of rubber mounted engine.

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