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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-21-2013, 07:26 AM Thread Starter
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Fatality - Motorcycle Safety Course

Ouch...
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.s...n_mall_in.html

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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-21-2013, 08:16 AM
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That's so terribly unfortunate. It's a bit difficult to imagine how an accident like could have happened. How fast must she have been moving to have the bike completely flip over on her? I've never seen anything like that happen during an MSF course.

On two occasions, I've had to tell student they had no business on a motorcycle and have removed them from the course for their own safety. However, they were in no danger of hurting themselves in the controlled environment of the course. It was a lack of basic coordination that put them at risk. I can't help but wonder what the accident will do for the image of the MSF?

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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-21-2013, 08:33 AM
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How awful.


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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-21-2013, 08:41 AM
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sad, sad story

when i took my course, older lady (about 55ish, so older than me) lost control of the bike. we were practicing braking and speeding up in the curve, throttle got away from her, she sped up, flew from the apex, panicked, sped up some more, hit the curb and flew over handles head first. i was riding right behind her, so i had the first row view of the accident. she sustained only some soft tissue injury. about two months later i stopped by the parking lot training grounds to talk to the owners son who is also one of the instructors and behold, she was there, back on the bike, finishing the training.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-21-2013, 09:00 AM
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-21-2013, 10:10 AM
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Not all that surprising that this could happen. Those classes get all kinds of people in them. When I took mine it was an easy way to get a license and lower insurance rates. I'd ridden a ton of dirt and gravel with some pavement thrown in when nobody was looking.

The lady behind me had never been on a bike. Sounds a lot like this story actually. Husband signed her up with him. She had no clue. She couldn't figure out the throttle/clutch relationship and had me scared to death. I finally pulled over and went to the back of the line so she didn't kill me. They eventually pulled her off the course and told her she wasn't ready. Luckily she agreed and class went on without any major issues.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-21-2013, 10:30 AM
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Don't know why they don't use a simple simulator for the first hour or two...watch a video, practice throttle, clutch, brake..then shift..and pass a simulator test before getting on a real bike. Even without the shift simulation (which adds a lot of cost), just simulating throttle, clutch, and brakes would give new students coordination skills. Maybe some moto manufacturers could provide those? Anyways, tough deal.

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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-21-2013, 01:53 PM
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They should all start with a training rig

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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-21-2013, 02:59 PM
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That may be the definition of tragic irony. Very sad.


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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-21-2013, 03:11 PM
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I took the course several years ago. Can't imagine this happening as the speeds were mostly 10mph with a few simple exercises that were maybe 30mph at most. How can you flip a bike end over end at these speeds?
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-21-2013, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by versys_rider View Post
I took the course several years ago. Can't imagine this happening as the speeds were mostly 10mph with a few simple exercises that were maybe 30mph at most. How can you flip a bike end over end at these speeds?
Could have turned the bars as she locked the front... Slam... Broken neck...


Very sad indeed.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-22-2013, 02:41 PM
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They should all start with a training rig

I think you COULD do a "breakie" even w/ outriggers....


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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-22-2013, 03:40 PM
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Be interesting to see what kind of bike they were using. In my class, we were using Eliminator 125's and some sort of 250 dual sport. I rode the 125 the first day, but the DS the second because it fit better. I couldn't possibly see doing an endo on the 125, but the 250 was a different beast and could get somebody in trouble.

I wonder why none of the major companies have marketed a standardized MSF fleet bike.. cheap, super low power (maybe a 50-75cc), and low center of gravity. Throw in a remote kill switch so the instructor could cut spark to all bikes in the class with a push of a button.. there's a real market here, i'd say.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-22-2013, 06:28 PM
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Be interesting to see what kind of bike they were using. In my class, we were using Eliminator 125's and some sort of 250 dual sport. I rode the 125 the first day, but the DS the second because it fit better. I couldn't possibly see doing an endo on the 125, but the 250 was a different beast and could get somebody in trouble.

I wonder why none of the major companies have marketed a standardized MSF fleet bike.. cheap, super low power (maybe a 50-75cc), and low center of gravity. Throw in a remote kill switch so the instructor could cut spark to all bikes in the class with a push of a button.. there's a real market here, i'd say.
I feel a 250 is perfect for beginners. I took the class along with my absolute beginner wife. The 250 was perfect for her. Her feet reached the ground and she could rock it side to side and not feel it was too heavy.

Think of it this way... Most folks that take the MSF are first timers who have already purchased a bike or are about to. They need to learn control as well as "self control". If they cannot control the power of a 250cc bike in a parking lot with proper instruction and supervision, they have no business trying one out (usually bigger cc) on the street with real obstacles both stationary and moving. There has to be accountability with the throttle control...Self control.

As for killing the engine, I disagree with the safety of that as well as a beginner likely would be quite startled and will not know to pull in the clutch and the engine drag could lock the wheel and down they go.... Synchronized crashing!! Maybe for the advanced class??
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-22-2013, 06:40 PM
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As for killing the engine, I disagree with the safety of that as well as a beginner likely would be quite startled and will not know to pull in the clutch and the engine drag could lock the wheel and down they go.... Synchronized crashing!! Maybe for the advanced class??
Advanced synchronized crashing. I like that!!

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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-23-2013, 04:52 PM
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As for killing the engine, I disagree with the safety of that as well as a beginner likely would be quite startled and will not know to pull in the clutch and the engine drag could lock the wheel and down they go.... Synchronized crashing!! Maybe for the advanced class??
Well then work that into part of the training. I remember the first 20 minutes of our riding day was hammering home the fact that the clutch is your control over the bike. If anything gets squirrely, you clamp on the clutch first. It should really be instinct by the time you get on the road. Perhaps do a few minutes of announced and planned engine kills, then maybe work it in with the panic stop routine. There's tons and tons of videos online of people wrecking their bikes because it got away from them and they didn't think to pull the clutch.
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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-23-2013, 06:45 PM
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Those signing up should have some basic bike control knowledge. The training schools should not just display a sign-up counter at any open area and entertain walk-in customers. To be a biker, you need the interest and even before getting a proper license, I have been riding off-road (non-gazetted zones), doing stunts (ok too much for 50-70 young folks) to know the bike.
There should not be any peer pressure from friends or on-lookers too.
Also training bikes can have limited throttle opening, very low rev cut or a higher clutch adjustment
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-23-2013, 09:29 PM Thread Starter
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Autopsy Result: Death not motorcycle related.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.s...dge_woman.html

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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-23-2013, 09:50 PM
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Autopsy Result: Death not motorcycle related.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.s...dge_woman.html
Still a very unfortunate event. Kudos to the newspaper for printing the rest of the immediate story.

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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 10-24-2013, 04:49 AM
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Autopsy Result: Death not motorcycle related.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.s...dge_woman.html
Thanks for the update!!
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