NY motorcyclist dies on ride protesting helmet law - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 60 (permalink) Old 07-03-2011, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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NY motorcyclist dies on ride protesting helmet law

ONONDAGA, N.Y. (AP) Police say a motorcyclist participating in a protest ride against helmet laws in upstate New York died after he flipped over the bike's handlebars and hit his head on the pavement.
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post #2 of 60 (permalink) Old 07-03-2011, 11:19 PM
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post #3 of 60 (permalink) Old 07-04-2011, 04:40 PM
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Another Darwin Award inductee.

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post #4 of 60 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 02:04 PM
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I met this woman in Kansas City who was married to her first husband, and they had two very young kids. His friend came over to show off his new motorcycle and the woman's husband took it for a short spin. No helmet.

During the ride, he saw a cop, panicked because he had no license and made a quick return to the house. Coming around a corner, he hit some gravel in the road, went into a neighbor's yard and hit a tree.

The woman's husband lost both legs, one arm and was severely brain damaged as a result of his accident. So here she was, young, uneducated, two small children to raise and a disabled husband to take care of. She remained with him for the next 5 years, going to night school, supporting her kids, and taking care of the man who became increasingly verbally abusive to her and the kids. Eventually she had to have him committed to an institution. She has since remarried and is now very successful, but her life was destroyed by her husband's choice to ride that bike with no helmet.

I have buried a few friends who did not wear helmets, one was a 400 lb, 7' tall man who was buried in a standard 6' box. If you ever have to see something like that, it rips your heart out. I was the only one who went to the funeral on a motorcycle (It was my only means of transportation at the time).

The other friend was a twin and his sister found him after he went head first into his Mothers car as he rounded the corner to their home and hit some oil in the road. His brains were scattered in their front yard. Her response to losing her Brother was to become an alcoholic and drug abuser, and she deteriorated pretty fast afterward. I do not know if she is still alive now or not.

No matter what anyone says, helmets save lives. If they didn't professional riders would not be required to wear them at all times.
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post #5 of 60 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 02:43 PM
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I was asked the other day by an old timer....

Old timer.... "New Hampshire doesn't have a helmet law right?...."

"Yes that's correct" I answered

" so why do you wear one?" he said

"Because I'm not stupid" I said...

This brought the other not quiet old timer to say " hey I don't ride with a helmet you calling me stupid" I paused for second because I didn't want to insult the fella, "I said no but I do support your right to be stupid..." That didn't make him feel much better.

I don't agree with helmet laws but I wear mine all the time....
There have been plenty of threads on this so lets not start another debate.
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post #6 of 60 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by offcamber View Post
"I said no but I do support your right to be stupid..."

I don't support his "right"...because I do not think it is his "right" to put his family at risk like that. I think it is his selfish ignorant attitude, not a right.

No matter who you are, you are someone's son or daughter, father, uncle, friend, or co-worker. Someone is probably going to have to live with the fact that your death was easily preventable. We are all going to die at some point and you can't live with no risk, but just as most people would not jump out of an airplane with no parachute on purpose, some always will. I do not admire those who will.

Someone out there loves you, someone may become responsible for you...or maybe the taxpayers will have to become responsible for you should you be stupid. I do not think you have the right to do that to other people.
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post #7 of 60 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 03:31 PM
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I don't support his "right"...because I do not think it is his "right" to put his family at risk like that. I think it is his selfish ignorant attitude, not a right.

No matter who you are, you are someone's son or daughter, father, uncle, friend, or co-worker. Someone is probably going to have to live with the fact that your death was easily preventable. We are all going to die at some point and you can't live with no risk, but just as most people would not jump out of an airplane with no parachute on purpose, some always will. I do not admire those who will.

Someone out there loves you, someone may become responsible for you...or maybe the taxpayers will have to become responsible for you should you be stupid. I do not think you have the right to do that to other people.
That's nothing but a nanny-state mentality. People die from doing stupid things every day, and it's nobody's business but their own. Prohibition was the worst example of one of these nanny laws. In return, we got lack of respect for the law in general and organized crime and racketeering as a bonus.

If ignorant people aren't allowed to get themselves killed, they'll go on to breed more idiots, and that will water down the general level of intelligence of the human race. Darwin was right, you see........

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post #8 of 60 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by offcamber View Post
I was asked the other day by an old timer....

Old timer.... "New Hampshire doesn't have a helmet law right?...."

"Yes that's correct" I answered

" so why do you wear one?" he said

"Because I'm not stupid" I said...

This brought the other not quiet old timer to say " hey I don't ride with a helmet you calling me stupid" I paused for second because I didn't want to insult the fella, "I said no but I do support your right to be stupid..." That didn't make him feel much better.

I don't agree with helmet laws but I wear mine all the time....
There have been plenty of threads on this so lets not start another debate.
That was brilliant offcamber. I just can't think that fast. Ha! Ha!





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post #9 of 60 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
That's nothing but a nanny-state mentality. People die from doing stupid things every day, and it's nobody's business but their own. Prohibition was the worst example of one of these nanny laws. In return, we got lack of respect for the law in general and organized crime and racketeering as a bonus.

If ignorant people aren't allowed to get themselves killed, they'll go on to breed more idiots, and that will water down the general level of intelligence of the human race. Darwin was right, you see........
Now you guys got me belly laughin!! I love this Forum or whatever you call it!! Ha! Ha!





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post #10 of 60 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 03:54 PM
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That's nothing but a nanny-state mentality. People die from doing stupid things every day, and it's nobody's business but their own.
It always IS someone else's business and responsibility. THAT is the problem. I am the most avid supporter of smaller Government...except in this one case.


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Prohibition was the worst example of one of these nanny laws. In return, we got lack of respect for the law in general and organized crime and racketeering as a bonus.
Yeah...because we have no crime now...right? I do not agree with prohibition either, but that is comparing apples and oranges.


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If ignorant people aren't allowed to get themselves killed, they'll go on to breed more idiots, and that will water down the general level of intelligence of the human race. Darwin was right, you see........
You obviously did not read my first post where the woman was left with 2 small kids she had to raise on her own. The idiots breed anyway, and the intelligence level is already waterlogged.
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post #11 of 60 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 04:22 PM
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I'm not in favor of helmet laws due to my firm belief that better living is not achieved through more government. I am however very much in favor of a required legal waiver for state aid care if you are in a motorcycle accident without a helmet that results in a traumatic head injury. Not wearing a helmet is sheer stupidity. However, freedom means stupid people get to be stupid.

Mike
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post #12 of 60 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 04:36 PM
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It always IS someone else's business and responsibility. THAT is the problem. I am the most avid supporter of smaller Government...except in this one case.
This has more to do with individual rights than the size of government. What's next, skydiving, rock climbing, and parasailing? People drown, too. Let's prohibit swimming and skindiving. Oh, and all forms of motor racing as well. We can ban motorcycling also, because people wearing helmets sometimes die from accidents.

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You obviously did not read my first post where the woman was left with 2 small kids she had to raise on her own. The idiots breed anyway, and the intelligence level is already waterlogged.
So, if people breed anyway, what purpose does it serve to have a helmet law? The idiots will find a way to kill themselves regardless of laws.

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post #13 of 60 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 04:45 PM
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I'm not in favor of helmet laws due to my firm belief that better living is not achieved through more government. I am however very much in favor of a required legal waiver for state aid care if you are in a motorcycle accident without a helmet that results in a traumatic head injury. Not wearing a helmet is sheer stupidity. However, freedom means stupid people get to be stupid.

Mike
Do you have actual statistics or studies that show that helmetless riders are a bigger burden upon society than those who wear helmets, or is that just an opinion?

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post #14 of 60 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 04:58 PM
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... We can ban motorcycling also, because people wearing helmets sometimes die from accidents.

Okay...so following your logic...can we all assume you are 100% against safety belts on cars and child safety seats too? I mean, according to you, we do not want a "nanny state" so why force a child into a seat?

What about steel beams mandated into the doors of cars? Gas tanks that are secured within the frame rails on trucks? Should we have no safety standards for how they make cars at all? I mean...that is evil big brother is telling us how to live...right?

What about toys...do we get rid of all of the choking hazzard safety standards...should we go back to the 1950's and have those easy light, human torch halloween costumes too? Damn that Government trying to keep our kids from catching fire...the bastards!



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So, if people breed anyway, what purpose does it serve to have a helmet law? The idiots will find a way to kill themselves regardless of laws.
The problem is not so much that they kill themselves as it is they live on severely brain damaged (As documented in the first post where a guy's family is left holding the bag...then the Government has to take over) and society has to take care of them for the rest of their lives at a significant cost to the Government, the tax payers, the family...everyone.

When I was young, I was anti-helmet law...then I buried a few friends and thought the whole thing out. I did not wear seat belts until someone made me...and then I was SO glad they did. I admit I was not a rocket scientist when I was 15-20, but I would like to think I got smarter with age. That is what learning is about. Luckily I learned from other people's mistakes.
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post #15 of 60 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 05:07 PM
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Do you have actual statistics or studies that show that helmetless riders are a bigger burden upon society than those who wear helmets, or is that just an opinion?

Do you REALLY need statistics to show you wearing helmets are safer than not wearing one?

I have a perfect test for you to show why helmets are safer:

You and a friend stand face to face.

Wear a DOT approved helmet of ANY kind.

Allow your friend to stand on a step ladder three rungs from the bottom and drop a 5 pound sledge hammer on your head.


Now do the same thing without the helmet.

Come back here (If you can) and then tell me you need statistics to show helmets are safer.
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post #16 of 60 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 05:11 PM
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Do you REALLY need statistics to show you wearing helmets are safer than not wearing one?

I have a perfect test for you to show why helmets are safer:

You and a friend stand face to face.

Wear a DOT approved helmet of ANY kind.

Allow your friend to stand on a step ladder three rungs from the bottom and drop a 5 pound sledge hammer on your head.


Now do the same thing without the helmet.

Come back here (If you can) and then tell me you need statistics to show helmets are safer.
So, I'll have to assume you don't have anything to back that statement up......

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post #17 of 60 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 05:29 PM
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So, I'll have to assume you don't have anything to back that statement up......

I do not need anything else. That little experiment will convince you...I guarantee it.

You go perform that test...let me know how it turns out...OK?

I noticed you avoided the rest of the post about child safety seats, automotive safety standards and flame proof halloween costumes...I would really like to know your thoughts on those subjects...
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post #18 of 60 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 05:37 PM
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Here is a good one for you...unbiased, and strictly about the science of it:

http://www.howitworks.net/how-motorc...mets-work.html
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post #19 of 60 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 05:57 PM
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I do not need anything else. That little experiment will convince you...I guarantee it.

You go perform that test...let me know how it turns out...OK?

I noticed you avoided the rest of the post about child safety seats, automotive safety standards and flame proof halloween costumes...I would really like to know your thoughts on those subjects...
I'm perfectly aware of how helmets work, and currently wear a Schuberth, one of the very best. But that doesn't address the nanny idea of forcing people to wear one.

Child safety seats are legislated to protect children that haven't reached the age of reason and are incapable of making an informed decision for themselves. This is also why I won't allow young children on my motorcycle.

Automotive safety standards apply to automobiles and not humans. Apples and oranges. BTW, I'm also opposed to seat belt laws for adults.

Flame proof costumes and also kids clothing, this is the same as child seats.

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post #20 of 60 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 06:09 PM
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I'm perfectly aware of how helmets work, and currently wear a Schuberth, one of the very best. But that doesn't address the nanny idea of forcing people to wear one.

You did not ask me to justify the "nanny state" issue. You asked if I (Or the other gentleman) had anything to back up that helmets are safer. That was just one of many sites that back it up.

I am still waiting for the results of your hammer drop test...be sure to keep us all posted.


Quote:
Child safety seats are legislated to protect children that haven't reached the age of reason and are incapable of making an informed decision for themselves. This is also why I won't allow young children on my motorcycle.

Apparently those who ride without helmets are also incabable of making informed decisions for themselves too.


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Automotive safety standards apply to automobiles and not humans. Apples and oranges.
The standards are there to protect the human occupants, not the cars themselves.


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BTW, I'm also opposed to seat belt laws for adults.

Why? Do you think you are safer without seat belts? If so...why do all professional drivers wear them?


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Flame proof costumes and also kids clothing, this is the same as child seats.

I see...so then...you have no problem with abolishing safety standards for buildings? Kids do not buy buildings...
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