Motorcycle Training Course rant - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
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Motorcycle Training Course rant

My wife just took a motorcycle training course to improve her skills and lower her insurance. What a crock of you know what.

She was laughed at for not knowing what a "petcock" was. Why would she know as her bike is a fuel injected model which doesn't have one.

After being clipped from behind by another male rider she dropped her loaner bike. That prompted the volunteer instructor to send her home. He told her she was a danger to herself and the other students. She was instructed to practice on her own bike (which is far more powerful than the schools loaner bike) before returning to a class. If she was a danger to herself and others on a closed course how bright would it be to tell her to practice on public roads!
I was under the impression that these courses were to teach new riders proper skills and not to discourage them.

$300 and they don't even let her complete the course and do not refund any $$$. The least they could have let her finish the last hour of the day

3 weeks later and a couple of email from me and now the are going to partially refund her some $$$

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post #2 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 08:22 PM
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this sounds like an isolated instance.... i have heard nothing but good things about the MSF courses in the US. It sounds like you were just unlucky and got the rotten apple instructors.

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post #3 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 09:06 PM
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I have never taken the basic course. But I have never had any problems with the experienced class.

My wife will be taking the basic in the next week or two. I will report back with her experience.

Ride em if ya got em!
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post #4 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 09:17 PM
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Dont email, go in person, make phone calls.

And i must say, when i took the course here in Ohio, i sucked ass, but the instructors were there to INSTRUCT ME, not put me down or ask me about parts that didn't matter if i knew their name or not. They sound like assholes, id go to a different place.

Oh and the bikes we learned on in my course were all crap! They are crap so it wasnt a big deal if someone dropped them.
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post #5 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 09:31 PM
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I had the total opposite experience. My instructors were very patient and genuinely enjoyed what they were doing. When one of the riders borked the crash stop and dropped her Rebel they were kind enough to offer her another chance to complete the course. I agree with mcampana, go scream at them in person and then find another place for her to do the course.

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post #6 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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She has her licence... the course was just to sharpen her skills and reduce her insurance rate.

Going to take the money and run and cut our losses with these GoldWing driving weenies

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post #7 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 10:40 PM
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That's terrible. I was fortunate to have the opposite experience. One student had a panic moment and overshot the tarmac, hitting the fence. The instructors were very patient with her and tried to convince her to come back the next day to finish the course (sadly, she was too shaken up and declined). I hope to heaven your wife's experience was an isolated one. That instructor should definitely be disciplined somehow, if not pulled from his/her position.

Jon
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post #8 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 11:25 PM
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Sorry to hear about the bad experience. Not "all" RiderCoaches are "Gold Wing driving weenies".

Phil
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post #9 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-23-2011, 11:39 PM
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I took the MSF basic course for $125 and it was all good. Good instructors that taught technique and helped the first-timers patiently. Nothing bad to say at all.


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post #10 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 08:38 AM
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@eldiablo

I don't know how "east" of ontario your are, but here in qc, those course are monitored by the federation

I did them 3 year in a row (I like those spring practice that make us do all sort of thing that I wich I won't have to do for real) on top of my basic course, which is mandatory for a driver's permit

They cost 100$ if you are not a member of a federated association and 80$ if you are
Last one complete day
They have two instructors
And appart from very personnal glitch (detail really), I'm very happy with the 3 of them

So if you are close to the border, you could inquire in the region east of your border for the next course

Here's some link (french, but hopefully you can manage)

HERE

Take care

LOP
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post #11 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 08:47 AM
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Wow, first time I've ever heard anything bad about an MSF course.
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post #12 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 09:10 AM
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the MSF courses are free in PA

all of them

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post #13 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 09:36 AM
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Wow! Even the ARC and BRC2 (formerly known as the ERC) are free?

In California, the BRC (15 hours) is 250 (150 for under 21) the ARC (8 hours) is 175 and the BRC2 (5 hours) is 125.

RiderCoaches are supposed to be coaches, not instructors; we are to facilitate one's learning and coach as needed, to lead them along the path of learning. It is sad that some RiderCoaches (or anyone that helps someone to learn to ride professionally) would put on a "mightier than thou" hat and expect the student to have fun learning.

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the MSF courses are free in PA

all of them

Phil
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post #14 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 04:57 PM
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Have to echo the sentiments of the others. That sounds like an unusual instance.

I have taken the course several times over the years. I have seen students asked to leave before, but never anything like that.

What concerns me is the loss of spacing. The instructor is supposed to constantly evaluate how the students are getting around the range, and it's one of the reasons there are often helpers - who are usually doing this to log their own time toward being instructors.

We weren't there and didn't see any of this, obviously. But a student collision, to my mind (and in a vacuum) is a deficiency in the instruction.
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post #15 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 08:41 PM
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I hate to hear your misfortune. My MSF class was nothing but helpful, and well organized with excellent instructors. Everyone was watched closely and safe spacing was enforced.
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post #16 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-24-2011, 10:00 PM
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I pre-trained my wife, and the MSF Basic course got her her endorsement. I do basic ATV riding instruction.

Her course was $250 ... They actually said she was in the top 3 in the class, and let her ride a Ninja 250 as that's what she was used to with me.

I did notice that the lead instructor did not like the fact that some students if they filled-in squares on a closed course, that they could go out and get their license and be on the street the next day. He didn't think the MSF Basic course gave enough discretion to keep from granting a certificate. He said SOME people should not pass. He thought some needed more than the MSF course could give....

Saying that, my Wife hopped on a brand new FZ6 and she is doing very very well. Hasn't dropped it yet in 1500 Miles and a year in the saddle ...

Sorry to hear of your experience. I would be willing to venture they were having an off day or saw something about her riding that got their goat... However trivial, they shouldn't show that side of themselves however...

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post #17 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-25-2011, 08:53 PM
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I think some are missing the point here. The OP is from Canada, and they don't have MSF there. Apples and oranges.....

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post #18 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-25-2011, 10:31 PM
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I know in the Ottawa area, there are two different sets of courses offered...one set is from the Ottawa Safety Council , and the other is from the Canada Safety Council. I've taken three of the courses offered by the Ottawa Safety Council (I took the Gearing Up course in 1998, and the Experienced Riders course and M2-Exit course in 2003), and had excellent experiences with all of them. I do recall the instructors there taking riders aside to help them out when required, as opposed to sending them home. I can't say anything about the CSC courses, as I've never taken them.

Without knowing more, it's hard to say if it was just an impatient / frustated instructor, or if there is something else wrong with the course your wife took. Something went wrong in this case, and it is in the best interests of the people running the course to find out what occurred. If there is an issue with the instruction being offered, they need to identify it and correct it.

Regarding the point about the instructors being volunteers:

My understanding for the OSC courses is that the instructors are volunteer, but are certified by the Canada Safety Council (more info can be found here). For the courses I took, the instructors were very good at it, and passed along a passion for riding. Don't slag them for being volunteers...it's their qualifications that count.

Just my $0.02,
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post #19 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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I have been informed multiple times by the course that my wife took... they do not refund or partial refund. That being said a check for $200 arrived in the mail today. Seem to me that this is an omission to the fact that something wasn't kosher with the way my wife was treated.

Why else would you break your own refund policy.

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post #20 of 21 (permalink) Old 05-26-2011, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorcyclenut View Post
Wow! Even the ARC and BRC2 (formerly known as the ERC) are free?

In California, the BRC (15 hours) is 250 (150 for under 21) the ARC (8 hours) is 175 and the BRC2 (5 hours) is 125.

RiderCoaches are supposed to be coaches, not instructors; we are to facilitate one's learning and coach as needed, to lead them along the path of learning. It is sad that some RiderCoaches (or anyone that helps someone to learn to ride professionally) would put on a "mightier than thou" hat and expect the student to have fun learning.
yea bro! I took the advanced rider course and it didnt cost me a cent. Like you said, my friend down in georgia took the same course for $250.

good point pete about MSF not comparing to canada's courses... sorry i missed that.

I still concur that this must have been the wrong instructor on the wrong day and seems like an isolated incident. Its good that they gave you your money back.

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2011 Halle-friggin-leuya Versys
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