America’s National Debt - Kawasaki Versys Forum
Off Topic Discussions For all of your off topic talk and just general B.S. Jokes, funny stories, etc...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 08:16 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Hardware's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
America’s National Debt

Conversation continued from http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...048#post127048

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastoman View Post
... BTW, never knew that America was a poor Nation. I know Americans do over spend but Americans been poor, wow that news to me.
America isn’t a poor nation – yet – but she is broke and getting deeper in debt by the second.

The world should remember this: The next time America comes to the aid of tsunami or earthquake victims somewhere — defends the peoples of some foreign land — or contributes enormous amounts of money into fighting diseases like AIDS in Africa... She is putting almost half the cost on her `credit cards’.

Note that I am not complaining about doing these things or saying that we shouldn’t... I do believe that they are often just & noble causes... but in the end 2+2 still equals 4... and sooner or later America’s debt will reach critical mass.
.

~~ Live Like You're Dying ~~
Hardware is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 08:44 AM
Member
 
jsquared's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Lisbon, Md.
Posts: 251
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
I agree, unfortunately I think it's going to be sooner than later. Eventually everyone has to pay the piper.

The economy is at a point where almost everything thrown at it isn't able to change the outcome. We can only hope for the best, at the same time prepare for the worst.

The J household is trying to square our finances up enough to be able to withstand the impending $hitstorm.
.

Jsquared

Rider of all things 2 wheeled
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jsquared is offline  
post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 08:51 AM
Member
 
snarky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 147
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Send a message via AIM to snarky Send a message via MSN to snarky Send a message via Yahoo to snarky Send a message via Skype™ to snarky
The repulicans increase spending and cut taxes, the democrats REALLY increase spending and then blame the tax cuts on the republicans. Both side are trying to keep taxes down while providing more of the services that their constituents want. However if we've learned any thing from Detroit and California, it's that you can't give the people everything they want or you end up with nobody being happy and a bunch of debt. Our two party system really is a bowl of **** staring at itself in the mirror, and until we relearn fiscal responsibility we're going to be in a decline until we reach the point where we're no longer the largest economy in the world. That's okay though the rest of the world isn't doing as well as it would have you believe. See: Ireland, Greece, an the EU
snarky is offline  
post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 09:27 AM
Super Moderator
 
Fastoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ipoh.Perak.Malaysia
Posts: 6,770
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by snarky View Post
The repulicans increase spending and cut taxes, the democrats REALLY increase spending and then blame the tax cuts on the republicans. Both side are trying to keep taxes down while providing more of the services that their constituents want. However if we've learned any thing from Detroit and California, it's that you can't give the people everything they want or you end up with nobody being happy and a bunch of debt. Our two party system really is a bowl of **** staring at itself in the mirror, and until we relearn fiscal responsibility we're going to be in a decline until we reach the point where we're no longer the largest economy in the world. That's okay though the rest of the world isn't doing as well as it would have you believe. See: Ireland, Greece, an the EU
You need not worry on the western world as they are the same, but you need to look at CHINA, INDIA and JAPAN.
http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report...illion_1413724
If the figures are true , then sad to say America is in deep trouble.
Fastoman is offline  
post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 09:28 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Hardware's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
In re-reading my above post I think I should clarify my meaning...

I am NOT blaming America’s financial woes on our foreign aid alone. While that does contribute something to the equation, it is our domestic policies that make up the bulk of the problem: From our trade deficits, to our immigration policies, to our entitlement programs. One simply can’t stop producing ANYTHING..., purchase EVERYTHING from other countries..., allow endless hordes of people to flow into the country..., continue to provide free education and health care to illegal aliens... and give every citizen everything they want! Math is math and the numbers just don’t work.

As Snarky noted above; just look at what these socialist policies have done to California... a single state that once had the 8th largest economy of all the countries in the world is now flat broke – selling off government buildings to make payroll – and is on the verge of collapse!


“The trouble with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
~~ Maragret Thatcher
.

~~ Live Like You're Dying ~~
Hardware is offline  
post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Hardware's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastoman View Post
You need not worry on the western world as they are the same, but you need to look at CHINA, INDIA and JAPAN.
Exactly my friend!

.

~~ Live Like You're Dying ~~
Hardware is offline  
post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 10:00 AM
Member
 
Ivan V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Balkan
Posts: 859
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
USofAmerica is neither poor or broke, there is just a vast disparity between rich and poor.
It's not a mystery how it happened, who is responsible and how to fix it.
It's just that rich do not want that.
So, let's not involve politicians, they are just leaches.
Ivan V is offline  
post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 10:15 AM
Member
 
miblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: SW Michigan USA
Posts: 246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Just to add my previous post from the other thread in case somebody didn't see it:

No doubt we as a country are headed for trouble - unless a radical change of course is implemented right away. I'm not talking in a partisan manner here, we need to do something big time different for plain survival, and I don't think any politician right or left has the correct answer or solution.

Read this sobering and depressing link if you're mentally strong: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/20..._collapse_2025
I don't exactly agree with everything in the article, but it is definitely sobering. Sorry to preach, but this is serious. God help us all. Pray and get close to your Maker; He might be all you've got if things continue like they are going.

.
Life without GOD is like an unsharpened pencil...........
It has NO point
miblue is offline  
post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 11:27 AM
Member
 
TCAdventure's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ludington, MI
Posts: 44
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
...

Guys, We are not going to be in trouble. We are IN trouble. At any time, if China decides not to hold our bonds and we have to "cash" them out we are done. Our system isn't perfect but I believe it to be the best in the world. I'm not rich but I always valued living in a country where extraordinary reward (wealth) is possible for everyone. We are rapidly moving in a direction where the incentive for risk taking is being eliminated. Once the reward for risk taking is gone there are no more "doers" to pay for the stuff everyone believes they are entitled to. When that happens, everyone is left scratching their heads wondering how things got so bad. What we need is a social paradigm shift toward personal accountability. We need to learn not to resent it when any one person has been more successful at capitalism than we ourselves have been. If someone wants more they should DO more - not look to big brother to level the field. If someone falls down or gets displaced by economic shifts we need to help them update their skills or learn altogether new ones. The current system of "something for nothing" causes people to become dependent on the government and mad at the perceived inequity of things. No one wins with that structure.

Rant over. BTW - Merry Christmas everyone.

'10 BMW R1200GS Adventure
'11 BMW S1000RR
TCAdventure is offline  
post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 12:35 PM
Member
 
Aleeoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Edmonds, WA
Posts: 293
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Let's say I have a family to support and a finite income. And...I have been raised to have pretty much whatever I want and I'm used to that so I buy new cars and flat screen TVs, iphones and laptops for all the family members. I've maxed out my credit cards and borrowed/taken the equity out of my house so I can buy braces for my kids and a motorhome like my neighbors have and so my kids can go to an out of state Ivy League college instead of a school in our home state. Then several of my relatives and distant relatives and their friends start moving in with me because they have lost or quit their jobs or are being mistreated at their old places of residence. They say they are looking for work but I don't see much evidence of that yet I am still feeding, clothing and housing them. My financial output far exceeds my income. I am "living beyond my means". If this goes on long enough, my family will go under financially 100% of the time, no matter what. It's just a matter of time.
That's exactly how a business, a state or a country works. The bigger it is, the longer it takes to go under but its demise is a 100% sure thing if the behavior continues long enough.
Behavior, good or bad and at whatever level comes from character, ethics and responsibility. We all have the ability to do simple math.
Aleeoop is offline  
post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 12:50 PM
Member
 
miblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: SW Michigan USA
Posts: 246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleeoop View Post
Let's say I have a family to support and a finite income. And...I have been raised to have pretty much whatever I want and I'm used to that so I buy new cars and flat screen TVs, iphones and laptops for all the family members. I've maxed out my credit cards and borrowed/taken the equity out of my house so I can buy braces for my kids and a motorhome like my neighbors have and so my kids can go to an out of state Ivy League college instead of a school in our home state. Then several of my relatives and distant relatives and their friends start moving in with me because they have lost or quit their jobs or are being mistreated at their old places of residence. They say they are looking for work but I don't see much evidence of that yet I am still feeding, clothing and housing them. My financial output far exceeds my income. I am "living beyond my means". If this goes on long enough, my family will go under financially 100% of the time, no matter what. It's just a matter of time.
That's exactly how a business, a state or a country works. The bigger it is, the longer it takes to go under but its demise is a 100% sure thing if the behavior continues long enough.
Behavior, good or bad and at whatever level comes from character, ethics and responsibility. We all have the ability to do simple math.
Excellent illustration Aleeoop. So what the h*ll is wrong with all the politicians and why do we believe all their bulls**t? Is it that they want things to fail so they can get richer and us regular joes poorer? Seems like they want to bring back the way things were in the middle ages again.

.
Life without GOD is like an unsharpened pencil...........
It has NO point

Last edited by miblue; 12-10-2010 at 12:54 PM.
miblue is offline  
post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 01:28 PM
Member
 
Bluegenes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 111
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
It's funny how military spending is rarely mentioned (I guess it's "unAmerican" and "unpatriotic" to do so?). Currently it comprises 54% of the federal budget. That's like buying a $7000 bike and spending over $7000 more on protective gear.
Bluegenes is offline  
post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 01:42 PM
Member
 
Aleeoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Edmonds, WA
Posts: 293
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
* Many of the people who vote for the politicians, think they or others should be able to get something for nothing and the politicians want to give it to them so they can keep getting those votes, result:...system failure.
* A true representative, represents his/her constituents, not himself and a politician who often goes against his constituents wishes, usually doesn't stay in office very long.
* Many politicians like socialism because it puts them in charge instead of the people. Shame on the politician.
* When the people ask the politician to do what he should not do (such as socialize a country), then the outcome is not the fault of the politician. Shame on the voter.
Aleeoop is offline  
post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 02:55 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SE Mich.
Posts: 1,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardware View Post
In re-reading my above post I think I should clarify my meaning...

I am NOT blaming America’s financial woes on our foreign aid alone. While that does contribute something to the equation, it is our domestic policies that make up the bulk of the problem: From our trade deficits, to our immigration policies, to our entitlement programs. One simply can’t stop producing ANYTHING..., purchase EVERYTHING from other countries..., allow endless hordes of people to flow into the country..., continue to provide free education and health care to illegal aliens... and give every citizen everything they want! Math is math and the numbers just don’t work.

As Snarky noted above; just look at what these socialist policies have done to California... a single state that once had the 8th largest economy of all the countries in the world is now flat broke – selling off government buildings to make payroll – and is on the verge of collapse!


“The trouble with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people’s money.”
~~ Maragret Thatcher
.
In addition to that, California is going to hell because they are the most anti-business state in the union. They've finally made it impossible for anyone to run a profitable business because of their insane regulations and taxation. Business people are moving out and going to places where people are happy to see them provide jobs. I talked to the owner of an electrical construction company who said that he was going to retire and leave the business to his son, who was going to pack everything up and take it to Montana.

10 Duc Streetfighter S (black)
09 Versys
00 KLR
67 Triumph Bonneville TT Special
USN 1959-65
ttpete is offline  
post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 03:44 PM
Member
 
miblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: SW Michigan USA
Posts: 246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
In addition to that, California is going to hell because they are the most anti-business state in the union. They've finally made it impossible for anyone to run a profitable business because of their insane regulations and taxation. Business people are moving out and going to places where people are happy to see them provide jobs. I talked to the owner of an electrical construction company who said that he was going to retire and leave the business to his son, who was going to pack everything up and take it to Montana.
Isn't this what's happening to rest of the country, just ahead of the curve? Look at our state, Michigan. We're broke too and people are also leaving. The only state I'm aware of that is still in the black is Texas, but how long's that going to be the case? It's ridiculous what's happening, but the poly-tics just voted to extend unemployment payments so they don't have civil unrest on their hands. Where's that money coming from? The bottomless money hole that stretches to Pluto? Appeasement and push it down the line for someone else to deal with it. That aint the way this country was founded. Can you imagine what John Adams, Jefferson, Washington, or Franklin would say if they were around now?

.
Life without GOD is like an unsharpened pencil...........
It has NO point

Last edited by miblue; 12-10-2010 at 05:44 PM.
miblue is offline  
post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 05:23 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SE Mich.
Posts: 1,161
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by miblue View Post
Isn't this what's happening to rest of the country, just ahead of the curve? Look at our state, Michigan. We're broke too and people are also leaving. The only state I'm aware of that is still in the black is Texas, but how long's that going to be the case? It's ridiculous what's happening, but the poly-tics just voted to extend unemployment payments so they don't have civil unrest on their hands. Where's that money coming from? The bottomless money hole that stretches to Pluto? Appeasement and push it down the line for someone else to deal with it. That aint the way this country was founded. Can you imagine what John Adams, Jefferson, Washington, or Franklin would say if they were around now?
California is run by a bunch of lefty loonies that would make Lenin proud. They just elected Governor Moonbeam back again. At least MI elected a conservative entrepreneur for governor and the Republicans control both houses. The auto industry's picking back up. It'll take awhile, but we're better off than Kali. Look for big cutbacks on non-essential services and entitlements. You have to realize that outgoing gov Granholm is part of the McNamara political machine in Wayne County. and she'll get another plum job there next year. She's been a colossal failure. Good riddance.

10 Duc Streetfighter S (black)
09 Versys
00 KLR
67 Triumph Bonneville TT Special
USN 1959-65
ttpete is offline  
post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 05:43 PM
Member
 
miblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: SW Michigan USA
Posts: 246
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttpete View Post
California is run by a bunch of lefty loonies that would make Lenin proud. They just elected Governor Moonbeam back again. At least MI elected a conservative entrepreneur for governor and the Republicans control both houses. The auto industry's picking back up. It'll take awhile, but we're better off than Kali. Look for big cutbacks on non-essential services and entitlements. You have to realize that outgoing gov Granholm is part of the McNamara political machine in Wayne County. and she'll get another plum job there next year. She's been a colossal failure. Good riddance.
Hey ttpete, you remember when Grandhell went to Japan and promised to bring either Honda or Toyota back to build a plant in our state, and she left after Indiana's gov. had already returned from there and was then later awarded with plants from both automakers and us nothing. Kinda her whole run as gov. and it's interesting she's real busy now trying to undo her pathetic legacy right before leaving office. How far did flipping that blond hair getcha Jen?

Came across some pertinent quotes:
"Small acts, when multiplied by millions of people, can transform the world." -- Howard Zinn.
"Politicians will always spend every penny of tax raised, and whatever else they can get away with." -- Milton Friedman

.
Life without GOD is like an unsharpened pencil...........
It has NO point
miblue is offline  
post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-10-2010, 09:59 PM
Member
 
glowcat13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Ware, Ma
Posts: 1,131
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
I mostly agree about the idiot poloticians both party's. I also feel they are not the only ones to blame for the problems we face. The financial institutions and and the consumers have to take some responsabilty for this as well. When mortgages are given to people who can't afford them or getting approved for more than they can afford. Some of the finnancial companies were taking risk and had insurance on these bad loans and knew they could still get a profit for failed loans, while others just failed. The consumer should know as well what they can afford and not get caught up in what they are approved for. Now there are also people walking away from mortgages that can afford them, they are waliking away because there value has decreased. I can understand people being worried when there property looses value, but so doesn't a new car when you drive it off the lot, but we don't walk away from that cause now its worth thousands less than we owe. I do not own a house, but i hope to some day i just know i can't afford it right now. I know not all forclosures fall under these 2 examples, I know someone who lost there home because of medical problems.
I am done with my rant.


Those who say money can't buy happines haven't bought A VERSYS.

Last edited by glowcat13; 12-10-2010 at 10:03 PM.
glowcat13 is offline  
post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-11-2010, 01:24 AM
Super Moderator
 
Fastoman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Ipoh.Perak.Malaysia
Posts: 6,770
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
look at the US-China Trade Statistics and China's World Trade Statistics.

You guys need to address this.Waiting for politician to do it, well my friend they are the main cause for this in the first place. You-America are now working for the CHINESE.

http://www.uschina.org/statistics/tradetable.html

God bless the America.

Sorry, I put it so bluntly but facts are facts.
Fastoman is offline  
post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 12-13-2010, 09:25 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Hardware's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastoman View Post
look at the US-China Trade Statistics and China's World Trade Statistics.

You guys need to address this. Waiting for politician to do it, well my friend they are the main cause for this in the first place. You-America are now working for the CHINESE.

Sorry, I put it so bluntly but facts are facts.
You are quite right Sir and I thank you for your concern AND your courage to say it bluntly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fastoman View Post
God bless the America.
And thank you for that! It truly warms my heart to see someone from another country say that!
.

~~ Live Like You're Dying ~~
Hardware is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Versys Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome