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post #1 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 07:11 PM Thread Starter
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post #2 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 07:33 PM
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Note sure where you got your statistics from but they appear to be incorrect or at least out of context.

The Counted: people killed by police in the United States ? interactive | US news | The Guardian

Per capita rate of police shootings by state:
New Mexico
Alaska
South Dakota
District of Columbia
Oklahoma
Alabama
Arizona

By Race (per million):
Black 3.45
Native American 3.4
Hispanic 1.69
White 1.47
Other 0.56

I would however agree that the media has a tendency to sensationalize issues for the sake of viewership/entertainment and the issue is not nearly as blatantly race related as perhaps the media make it out to be. It is much more complex.

My opinion as an outside observer, and these issues are not unique to the US although more pronounced in part due to the widespread availability of guns, and lower levels of racial integration in the US, is that historical and and to a much, much lesser extent present day discrimination marginalized these group and prevented racial integration which in turn created socio-economic problems within these groups that spanned generations, this in turn creates increased crime problems within these groups.

While police officers are perhaps are not necessarily discriminatory at the beginning some do become biased dealing with the result of these socio-economic issues making them much more likely to target members of the racial groups who commit these crimes and less likely to treat them with the same level of fairness. Just ask a black coworker/acquaintance/friend how many pull overs they experience in a year by police.

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post #3 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 07:50 PM
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Liberal statistics verses conservative statistics. Both true, but tell a different story.

How about violent crimes committed by race twowheels?
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post #4 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 08:10 PM
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Liberal statistics verses conservative statistics. Both true, but tell a different story.

How about violent crimes committed by race twowheels?

There is no such things as liberal statistics or conservative statistics. There are only true facts and made up or altered facts.
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post #5 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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My info from facebook so it will be correct, every country has same issues. In NZ if maori person is shot by police or tasered (which still make the news here) but a white person is shot not the same issue. Mostly our cops are unarmed.
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post #6 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 08:58 PM
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There is no such things as liberal statistics or conservative statistics. There are only true facts and made up or altered facts.
The original was absolute numbers, yours was a given as a percentage of their population. Both could be true. The conservative post plays to the fact that most of their audience doesn't realize there's a lot more white people than black people here in the US. So when they see more whites shot by cops than blacks, to them that's the same as a cold day in winter disproving global warming.
It's not that the conservative data is necessarily wrong, just that it's lacking enough context to keep their sheep feeling warm and fuzzy.
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post #7 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 09:25 PM
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There is no such things as liberal statistics or conservative statistics. There are only true facts and made up or altered facts.
Your statistics look at the data differently than kiwi's statistics. Both right, but paint a different picture to support an agenda.

When you bring in other data to cross reference, you get a clearer picture.

You talk big on the forums, but I doubt you would go walk around certain neighborhoods in Chicago.

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post #8 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by twowheeladdict View Post
Your statistics look at the data differently than kiwi's statistics. Both right, but paint a different picture to support an agenda.

When you bring in other data to cross reference, you get a clearer picture.

You talk big on the forums, but I doubt you would go walk around certain neighborhoods in Chicago.
Based on your comment above, I don't think you read or perhaps did not understand my first post or Saddlebag's post.

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post #9 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 10:26 PM
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Based on your comment above, I don't think you read or perhaps did not understand my first post or Saddlebag's post.
When I read yours our saddlebags posts in the off topic area, I just see, "I'm a liberal, and am going to say anything contrary to what was posted just for argument sake". Just blah, blah, blah. So if you actually agreed with Kiwi, I apologize, but I doubt you did.
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post #10 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-15-2016, 11:59 PM
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FBI statistics (2011 Crime in the US, Expanded Homicides Table 6): White murdered 2630 white ("color" terminology is theirs), White murdered 193 Black, Black murdered 448 White, Black murdered 2447 Black. Really shameful numbers regardless of race and food for thought & the likely rationalizations that follow. In any event I think these things have very little to do with skin pigmentation and lots more to do with culture and "perceived social norms" if you will.

If you take into consideration the likelihood of participation in and near violent crime (generally speaking, there are no police or black people around when whites kill whites, similarly blacks vs blacks), police kill both whites and blacks roughly in proportion to what one would expect.

Having written that, I pledge to return to discussing motorcycles only, other than obscure posts about sports nobody watches or why everyone spells English words the wrong way.
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post #11 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-16-2016, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by twowheeladdict View Post
When I read yours our saddlebags posts in the off topic area, I just see, "I'm a liberal, and am going to say anything contrary to what was posted just for argument sake". Just blah, blah, blah. So if you actually agreed with Kiwi, I apologize, but I doubt you did.
I'm not a liberal. I don't buy into extremist nonsense on either side. From what I've seen, a lot of the black heros who got shot, had it coming. Others didn't. What I said about how data is presented is true. The people who self described conservatives call "liberal" are usually just those with some education. Educated people are more likely to provide context and nuance to the topic at hand. Self described conservatives are more likely to present it in a way to push the buttons of their overly emotional, underly educated audience.
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post #12 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-16-2016, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by twowheeladdict View Post
How about violent crimes committed by race twowheels?
Link that supports the numbers in the OP post, and addresses the question above.

5 Statistics You Need To Know About Cops Killing Blacks | Daily Wire

Example Text from the article:
"Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015. According to data compiled by The Washington Post, 50 percent of the victims of fatal police shootings were white, while 26 percent were black. The majority of these victims had a gun or "were armed or otherwise threatening the officer with potentially lethal force," according to MacDonald in a speech at Hillsdale College.

Some may argue that these statistics are evidence of racist treatment toward blacks, since whites consist of 62 percent of the population and blacks make up 13 percent of the population. But as MacDonald writes in The Wall Street Journal, 2009 statistics from the Bureau of Justice Statistics reveal that blacks were charged with 62 percent of robberies, 57 percent of murders and 45 percent of assaults in the 75 biggest counties in the country, despite only comprising roughly 15 percent of the population in these counties.

"Such a concentration of criminal violence in minority communities means that officers will be disproportionately confronting armed and often resisting suspects in those communities, raising officers’ own risk of using lethal force," writes MacDonald.

MacDonald also pointed out in her Hillsdale speech that blacks "commit 75 percent of all shootings, 70 percent of all robberies, and 66 percent of all violent crime" in New York City, even though they consist of 23 percent of the city's population.

"The black violent crime rate would actually predict that more than 26 percent of police victims would be black," MacDonald said. "Officer use of force will occur where the police interact most often with violent criminals, armed suspects, and those resisting arrest, and that is in black neighborhoods."
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post #13 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-16-2016, 10:04 AM
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Here you go girls, get your heads around these statistics, & because you've nothing better to do you can discuss each person's killing case by case!!!
Killed By Police - 2016
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post #14 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-16-2016, 10:40 AM
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my2wheels has the information regarding persons killed by police above.

If you want the real, raw statistics regarding Police Officers killed by citizens you need to find the proper repository for them.

The following is actual documented statistics of officers killed in the line of duty and assaults against police officers See the second paragraph.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/ucr-publications

Cheers,

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post #15 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-16-2016, 11:35 AM
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I am guessing that my parents and life were incorrect with the teachings on how to act around police officers
1st, keep my hands in plain sight
2nd, comply with the officers ORDERS
3rd, (DO NOT) act stupid
4th, be polite
When I am pulled over or a officer knocks on my door at home
I follow these rules, I figure the cops must have a good reason
to question me.
From what I have seen on TV and the news paper, most of the problems with the police are because the people resented the authority of the police officers and made a scene because of that.
An old survivalist saying goes like this.
Eating crow taste very bad, kissing an azz really stinks
but you can survive by doing these things
This is my two cents worth
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post #16 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-16-2016, 12:25 PM
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my2wheels has the information regarding persons killed by police above.

If you want the real, raw statistics regarding Police Officers killed by citizens you need to find the proper repository for them.
This is the figure l found Charlie for 2014 which is the latest stat;s on there & 4 of the deaths were in Peurto Rico;
In 2014, 51 law enforcement officers died from injuries incurred in the line of duty during felonious incidents.

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Originally Posted by RMS View Post
I am guessing that my parents and life were incorrect with the teachings on how to act around police officers
1st, keep my hands in plain sight
2nd, comply with the officers ORDERS
3rd, (DO NOT) act stupid
4th, be polite
When I am pulled over or a officer knocks on my door at home
I follow these rules, I figure the cops must have a good reason
to question me.
From what I have seen on TV and the news paper, most of the problems with the police are because the people resented the authority of the police officers and made a scene because of that.
An old survivalist saying goes like this.
Eating crow taste very bad, kissing an azz really stinks
but you can survive by doing these things
This is my two cents worth
Why should you have to eat sh*t if you haven't done anything though??
Some cops act as though they ARE the law instead of enforcing the law, which works both ways!
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post #17 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-16-2016, 01:29 PM
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...Why should you have to eat sh*t if you haven't done anything though??...
I agree w/ you on ONE level, but disagree on another:

I was ALWAYS taught that you don't start arguing w/ someone who has a weapon....
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post #18 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-16-2016, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by RMS View Post
I am guessing that my parents and life were incorrect with the teachings on how to act around police officers
1st, keep my hands in plain sight
2nd, comply with the officers ORDERS
3rd, (DO NOT) act stupid
4th, be polite
When I am pulled over or a officer knocks on my door at home
I follow these rules, I figure the cops must have a good reason
to question me.
From what I have seen on TV and the news paper, most of the problems with the police are because the people resented the authority of the police officers and made a scene because of that.
An old survivalist saying goes like this.
Eating crow taste very bad, kissing an azz really stinks
but you can survive by doing these things
This is my two cents worth
This is over the top, really. No need to be that paranoid. Just be civil, and follow direction. It's that easy. Police officer do have authority - whether you like that or not - so follow directions.
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post #19 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-16-2016, 01:44 PM
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I agree w/ you on ONE level, but disagree on another:

I was ALWAYS taught that you don't start arguing w/ someone who has a weapon....
I didn't say "start an argument" with the officer, l'm saying you don't have to act humble if you haven't done anything wrong!!!

Maybe my problem is that l was brought up in a country where even if the majority of cops are like gestapo officers, they don't have guns, which gives a "suspect" the luxury of stating his case!

Here's the 2014 gun murder chart for London, which is a City of 6 million people!!
Interactive Table of London Murders 2014 - Source Met Police FOI and CitizensReport
Using the drop down menus on the right select for victim age, or year, or borough of murder


1 Dean MAYLEY 24 Feb 7, 2014 Ealing, London
2 Babafemi JUNAID 22 Feb 7, 2014 Lambeth, London
3 Basel AGHABRA 19 Feb 3, 2014 Westminster, London
4 Maria DUQUE-TUNJANO 48 Jan 31, 2014 Kensington and Chelsea, London
5 Milena Khan KHAN 27 Jan 28, 2014 Newham, London \
6 Anopan VAGESWARAN 5 Jan 9, 2014 Harrow, London
7 Nathaban VAGESWARAN Jan 9, 2014 Harrow, London
8 Zbigniew MICHNIEWICZ 36 Nov 13, 2013 Ealing, London


Another interesting fact is that only one name on the list is an indigenous Brit!!!

Last edited by my2wheels; 07-16-2016 at 02:33 PM.
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post #20 of 39 (permalink) Old 07-16-2016, 03:00 PM
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This is over the top, really. No need to be that paranoid. Just be civil, and follow direction. It's that easy. Police officer do have authority - whether you like that or not - so follow directions.
Many of the black people mourned did not, but many did. The guy in Minnesota was just sitting in the car when the cop opened up on him. Another guy ran away and a cop shot him in the back. Then there's this guy no one seems to remember, I guess because he lived?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXmVPxQGTsE
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