Hey guys, fuel question. Also hello! - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 04:19 AM Thread Starter
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Hey guys, fuel question. Also hello!

My old man says to use premium in my 15 650. I cant find a definitive answer. Any help?
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post #2 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 07:19 AM
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I use 95 (premium) in my 2010 Versys & have done since new
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post #3 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 09:08 AM
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Never have, never will. I don't see a reason unless you want the more additives they put in some premium blends. My memory is pretty crappy, but it seems a couple years ago I saw a post by those in the know here that said it actually is bad to use higher octane. Just my $0.02 from a non technical person.
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post #4 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 09:13 AM
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https://www.kawasakiversys.com/forum...ber-intro.html please read, please do a second post in this thread you started( if you haven't done so). Thanks

I use regular with up to 10% ethanol, winter months I add fuel stabilizer . Only advantage is most fuel suppliers in Canada don't have ethanol in the premium fuel.
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post #5 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pconnell21 View Post
My old man says to use premium in my 15 650. I cant find a definitive answer. Any help?
Check your OWNERS MANUAL - it says to use 87 octane. Any more is just a waste of $.
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post #6 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 12:44 PM
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No, don't use premium!

The octane has nothing to do with energy content of the gasoline. It is a measure of how hard it is to ignite and how fast it burns. Your engine will run better on the proper octane than on either too low or too high an octane.

High octane burns fast, and it is hard to ignite. The pistons are moving at a particular speed. There is a pressure curve on the fuel burn, which starts out at zero then goes up to a peak, then comes back down. In a perfect world the piston would be moving at the same speed as the fuel burns so that the pressure pushes for the longest time on the piston. A longer firm push transmits more energy more efficiently than a single fast impulse. Work done is force applied multiplied by the distance. You get more work (energy) out of the gas if the pressure wave matches piston speed.

Detonation is an engine killer, and happens if you run too low an octane. Detonation tends to happen at high throttle, meaning you are letting a lot of air and fuel into the cylinder, and it happens at lower rpm. So, if you are not running at full throttle and not demanding a lot of power, you could in fact safely run a lower octane in your engine and get more efficiency out of it. However this is not practical because you never know when you'll have to (or want to) demand more power. But the lesson is that the most efficient (powerful) burn of fuel is with the minimum octane required to avoid detonation. The engineers who designed the engine will build in some buffer, which means the recommended 87 octane is safe and is the most efficient fuel choice.

Ethanol-free gas will contain about 7% more energy than 10% ethanol. I get about 5% better fuel economy in my car and my V650 when I burn it. The cost here is right around 5% more, so I buy it when it is convenient, just to reduce how frequently I have to buy gas. But the same rules apply for octane, don't bother with higher octane just to get the non-ethanol.
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Last edited by Fly-Sig; 07-26-2019 at 12:48 PM.
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post #7 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 06:45 PM
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high "octane" burns slower if anything. and today it's a performance number. in the early days gasoline was basically a mix of octane and heptane. it was discovered that the higher the octane ratio was the better it could resist detonation. 100 octane fuel was 100% octane. then they started adding things (like TEL) to make it act like a higher ratio than it actually was to stretch out the expensive octane and use more heptanes. thats also how we ended up with 100/130 rated avgas.... 30% more resistant to detonation than 100% octane. there was a 115/145 too. the dual ratings were based on lean/rich mixture

anyway.... I run 87 in my '15, since I bought it new. no problem

if I'm answering your question I assume the basic points have been addressed, such as: did you do a compression test? is it still on fire?
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post #8 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 09:55 PM
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87 octane (which is what the manual says), you don't need anything more. If it makes you feel better running premium, well it's your money.
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post #9 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-27-2019, 08:22 AM
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I use 87 octane as that is what's called for. It also works fine with the Shoodaben ECU flash. What I am fussy about is making sure to use a top tier fuel whenever possible. That does rule out Speedway, Wally Mart and a few others.

https://toptiergas.com/licensed-brands/

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And most of Canada too, eh?
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post #10 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-27-2019, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Beezerboy View Post
high "octane" burns slower if anything.
I may have gotten it backwards then on which burns fast vs slow. I know they burn at different rates and the higher octane is harder to ignite, and the engineers design the engine to work most effectively with a certain octane. A coworker who races cars for a hobby explained it all to me in great detail a few years ago, concluding with the most power can be extracted from the lowest octane which doesn't detonate in your engine under the conditions you are running it at. Premium gas is a waste of money in our Versys 650.
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post #11 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 09:38 PM
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aboard and enjoy your ride - Be safe.

I use normal fuel (87, by your standard) and its has been fine. sometimes I go on high premium just to get some extra sped/heat and to get the carbon out. sometime i mix as long is unleaded fuel i don't really care. when riding in countries like Thailand, Laos, Cambodia where fuel quality is low, the bike seems to consume more fuel and feel sluggish. it all depend what kind of fuel you get in your countries and how the quality is control.
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post #12 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 07:32 AM
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My sister had a Mazda 626 she was running premium gas in it and it ran like crap. She took it to the dealer and they told her to run regular. That is what the car was designed for. Compression ratio, valve timing and overlap, ignition timing, spark plug heat ratio and gap, carb or fuel injection, all play a part in what type of gas you can or need to use.
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post #13 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 08:53 AM
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Steve and the owners manual say to use 87 octane.

Something no one has mentioned is the dreaded ethanol content in our "wonderful" gas these days. Ethanol is added to raise the octane rating of the gas. Since 91 octane is higher than 87 it contains more ethanol. Ethanol is not good for your engine and other components. So that makes 87 octane a win win. More power, less ethanol, and of course cheaper price. Win win win.

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post #14 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 10:04 AM
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Something no one has mentioned is the dreaded ethanol content in our "wonderful" gas these days. Ethanol is added to raise the octane rating of the gas. Since 91 octane is higher than 87 it contains more ethanol. Ethanol is not good for your engine and other components. So that makes 87 octane a win win. More power, less ethanol, and of course cheaper price. Win win win.
I run ethanol-free gas when it is convenient. There's a station on my way home from work that sells 88 octane ethanol-free for about 5% more $$ than the corn-polluted 88 octane. With the better mileage it works out cost-neutral to buy it.

There are a few high octane ethanol-free stations, and I used to run that in a car that needed it.

At this elevation the octanes are 1 or 2 lower than elsewhere. Regular is 85 instead of 87. Mid is 88 instead of 89, and premium is 91 instead of 93. I have not yet experimented with regular to compare fuel economy, but it is on the to-do list. It should be completely safe to run the 85 up here, but old habits die hard (not putting in a lower octane than the manual calls for).
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Last edited by Fly-Sig; 07-29-2019 at 10:07 AM.
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post #15 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 10:14 AM
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owner's manual is gospel...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fasteddiecopeman View Post
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Check your OWNERS MANUAL - it says to use 87 octane. Any more is just a waste of $.
several studies done over the years regarding this. it comes up in different forums regularly, but the owner's manual is gospel and anything more is a waste.
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post #16 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 02:41 PM
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In Croatia I can buy minimum 95 octane fuel and 100 octane, before you can also buy and 98 octane but I see that don't existe anymore in Croatia, or it is very rare.
In my country 95 octane will never see 95 in next few years (fuel is crap) , so I use 100 octane, because I can't found 98.
When my friend fill they cars in Germany they make even 100 miles more than on fuel in Croatia.
But when I can't found 100 I use 95.

95 octane 1 galon price: 5,73$ - 6,07$
100 octane 1 galon price: 6,24$ - 6,27$
This is in US gallon not imperial gallon.

This is price by current price of fuel in my country and by current price of USD in Croatia.
About salary is better not to talk because it is sad how low salary is here.

I have only this 2 options here 95 octane or 100 octane so I don't have much choice, and both are expensive hahahaah

Last edited by kardan; 07-31-2019 at 02:43 PM.
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post #17 of 19 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 09:05 PM
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In Croatia I can buy minimum 95 octane fuel and 100 octane, before you can also buy and 98 octane but I see that don't existe anymore in Croatia, or it is very rare
There are different ways of measuring octane. Your 95 octane is about the same as 90 or a bit less in the USA.
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post #18 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 02:45 PM
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Back when I was a kid the way they listed octane on the pumps was a higher number. Now the numbers are lower so here's an article that seems reasonable:

"Octane number: what is it?
Octane rating or octane number is a measure of the resistance of gasoline and other fuels to detonation (engine knocking) in spark-ignition internal combustion engines. High-performance engines typically have higher compression ratios and are therefore more prone to detonation, so they require higher octane rating fuel so, higher octane rating means higher knocking resistance tendency.
How do we measure it?

The octane number of a fuel is measured in a test engine against a mixture of iso-octane and heptane. If a gasoline sample has the same antiknock quality as that of a mixture containing 90% isooctane and 10% heptane, then the octane number for that sample is defined as 90. Some hydrocarbons have higher anti-knocking capacity than iso-octane. Hence, octane number definition is extended to allow octane numbers higher than 100.

Depending on the measurement techniques, there are following different types of octane numbers defined,
Research Octane Number (RON); is most commonly used octane number and it is determined by burning the fuel in a test engine under controlled conditions and variable compression ratios. Then the results are compared with mixtures of iso-octane and heptane.

Motor Octane Number (MON); testing uses a similar test engine to that used in RON testing, but with a preheated fuel mixture, higher engine speed (900 RPM instead of 600 RPM used for RON), and variable ignition timing to further stress the fuel's knock resistance. MON is a better measure of how a fuel will actually behave when under a higher load than normal.

Depending on the composition of the fuel, the MON of a modern gasoline will be about 8 to 10 points lower than the RON, however there is no direct link between RON and MON.

Some times an average of RON and MON known as Anti Knock Index (AKI) is specified in some locations. This is also known as Road Octane Number (RdON) or Pump Octane Number (PON)."
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post #19 of 19 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 04:29 PM
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There are different ways of measuring octane. Your 95 octane is about the same as 90 or a bit less in the USA.
Yea, I found this table on internet.

I always see on pictures or on video you have more options in US than me in Croatia.
I mean I have 95 octane, 95 class plus (same like 95 just this have aditives which are better for engine, + then cost little more than ordinary 95), and 100

Also I notice that nozzle for gasoline is black color and for diesel is green color.
Here is opposite, gasoline is green and diesel is black.
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