Effective V1k Cornering? Lean or Counter Weight - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-02-2018, 09:56 PM Thread Starter
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Question Effective V1k Cornering? Lean or Counter Weight

Hi guys

I just wanted to hear everyones opinion about riding corners in a V1k. I drive 95% pavement and rides most of the time with Z1's and ZX10R's bikes. I ride the bike in corners just like any other riders (leaning inside). Though V1k's are much harder to pull in corners as it is much taller.

I am wondering, has any V1k rider uses counter weight when cornering? meaning instead of leaning towards the inside, you actually lean your body outside (same as making tight u-turns). I understand this is recommended when riding off road corners, but how about in pavements? Speed maybe between 50 - 60 km/h in corners.
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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-03-2018, 06:47 AM
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-03-2018, 07:28 AM
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Can't address the V1K specifically but this has worked for me on a wide variety of bikes, new and old, over the years. Disclaimer - lengthy discussion on science and art of countersteering will not be included here.

At speed, lean forward and into the curve (how much depends on speed and tightness of said curve), keep head perpendicular to the road surface, and press on the outside foot peg. At low speed, keep your torso perpendicular to the road surface, or lean slightly to the outside, and press on the outside foot peg. How much comes with practice and depends on the tightness of the turn you wish to make. With practice the bike can be leaned to outrageous angles without falling over - once you get the hang of it

I'm by no means an expert and it's been decades since I taught my last MSF course, but as people say, it works for me. So far so good!

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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-03-2018, 08:23 AM
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I suggest you read some books on riding and maybe take a class.
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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-03-2018, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeric Cupin View Post
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I am wondering, has any V1k rider uses counter weight when cornering? meaning instead of leaning towards the inside, you actually lean your body outside (same as making tight u-turns). I understand this is recommended when riding off road corners, but how about in pavements? Speed maybe between 50 - 60 km/h in corners.
If you lean outside the bike will have to lean over further to maintain the same radius around the curve for a given speed. I recommend "Total Control" by Lee Parks.

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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-03-2018, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeric Cupin View Post
...I am wondering, has any V1k rider uses counter weight when cornering? meaning instead of leaning towards the inside, you actually lean your body outside (same as making tight u-turns). I understand this is recommended when riding off road corners, but how about in pavements? Speed maybe between 50 - 60 km/h in corners.
Off-road riding entails some taking turns as you've described, but I would suggest that it's NOT a good idea on pavement, as you WILL end up w/ a greater 'lean-angle' that way.

Try "dropping your inside shoulder" as you enter the turn. That will give the bike LESS lean, enabling more speed if necessary.

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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-03-2018, 03:45 PM
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On a sketchy corner I will counter weight and counter steer.Other wise I like to practice straight counter steering at speed,it gives you a very in control feel.Everyones different,style and speed of cornering and surface..I use Avon Trailrider tires,not for off road but for how they grab on pavement turns that sometimes has some gravel or slip.They are a real stout road tire.
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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-03-2018, 03:52 PM
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My FJR i leaned into the corners. With the V-1K i ride it like a big dirt bike. With its wide handle bars i let them do all the work. Most corners is just point and shoot but the tight stuff i counter steer..

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-03-2018, 05:32 PM
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If the bike is difficult to turn into the corner it could be the tires. I wouldn't alter my riding position just because you're finding the bike resisting the turn-in. Something else is going on.

There's a skiing exercise known as "Inside Inside, Outside Outside", where you turn on the inside edge of one ski, then the inside edge of the other ski (this is the normal correct way to ski), then you do one turn on the outside edge of the second ski, then the outside edge of the first ski. This teaches you all about balance and position. The ski turns easily on the inside, and is all whacky on the outside edge.

There's a similar exercise they had us do at an adventure riding class I took a couple of years ago. We did turns by leaning normally into the turn as on pavement, then turns leaning opposite like on dirt. Inside inside, outside outside.

I find the V650 resists turning on pavement when leaning counter to the turn at any normal speed. But when I shift even slightly inside for the turn and press the outside leg into the tank it is very eager to turn. I don't think it is even about the weight shift, but more about the upper body and arms, plus the head. The bike wants to go where the head is going. All psychological, yup, but it seems to be so.
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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-03-2018, 08:33 PM
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I like these kind of discussions.

I am very inexperienced, but I'd like to add my perspective. I'm on the V1k now, just recently. Was on a V Star 950 for two years, and before that was on a Yamaha FZ6.

I find the V1K slightly hesitant at that first initiation on a turn. However, I have found that by using a meathod similar to what Fly-Sig suggested, it does become more eager to lean. Lean body forward, head and shoulder weight into the corner, and use your outer leg to help press it in. Counter-steer. Then your in!

Once it's in the lean, then it's great. It likes to lean. Maybe the height of the bike, and upright body position that makes it hesitant,...but only to initiate the lean.

I like cruising down a straight road and playing with these different things.

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post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 07-03-2018, 10:05 PM
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bikes are all different. some fall into a corner easier than others. it depends on a lot of factors. reviewing how to properly negotiate a curve again never hurt anybody. lots of internet resources, or retake a rider course. always practice skills. on my 2008 v650, early on i changed to 150/70 radials, which really made the bike fall even easier into curves compared to the 160/60's on the top heavy v650. but it became normal for me. i picked up one of the last new 2016 moto guzzi norge (out of production now), and what a difference! lower, much heavier bike, falls into corner very well, but in a stable way (but watch out for the power). the old v650 now feels to me like it used to, almost TOO easy to flick. they're both fun bikes though, but different characters. so COG, tires, handlebar configuration, ambient issues among others.

countersteering? i still believe its more a pushing down motion to LEAN, not pushing forward as they describe (hence the name). in very slow riding, you are primarily turning the wheel. anything above 15-20 miles per hour, you're primarily leaning. the only time you can lean too much is if you're coming into a corner too hot.
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