The decline of the AMA - Kawasaki Versys Forum
Industry News A section for industry news, recalls & technical service bulletins.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-03-2014, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
motociclista's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 403
The decline of the AMA

Any of you who are AMA members (or really anyone who cares about motorcycling in the United States) may want to see the reporting I've done here about how the AMA has lost millions of dollars and 28% of its members while giving bonuses and pay raises to the CEO. This is not a story you're likely to see in any of the motorcycle magazines.

Whitehorse Press is going out of business so it's time for a final sale. Signed copies of my book are now $10 with free shipping in the U.S. while they last.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
motociclista is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-03-2014, 10:53 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,606
Seems that the primary mission of many organizations is to raise money.
waltermitty is offline  
post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-03-2014, 10:57 AM
Member
 
weljo2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Norwalk CA
Posts: 15,398
Garage
Great Article...Hopefully it'll shed some light on that cockroach.

2009 Blue Versys.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Sold
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Farkles...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Video Channel
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Photos...
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I'm not a Gynecologist. "But I'll Take A Look"

Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth...
Mike Tyson

"Ya'll can go to hell, I'm goin' to Texas!"...Davey Crockett
weljo2001 is offline  
 
post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-03-2014, 11:08 AM
Member
 
Arion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: San Antonio, TX & Moosehead Lake, ME
Posts: 3,263
Very interesting and informative article, Lance. It's a sad fact that one could easily replace "AMA" with the name of countless other commercial enterprises and have the story still ring true.

I've been an AMA member, on and off (during those periods when I owned one or more motorcycles) for something over 40 years, but the new vision AMA isn't anything like the old version. I've been unable to decided if what I receive in return for my annual membership fee is worth the cost. Perhaps I've not examined the situation carefully enough. Then again, perhaps I have and will eventually add to the membership decline.

From an employment perspective, wouldn't it be grand if all of us could have jobs like those of protected CEOs whose compensation packages and levels of performance are seemingly completely unrelated.

A final thought for the moment. It should come as no surprise to anyone that the disgruntled ex-employee ploy was trotted out.

What a country, huh?

Arion

"Plan? Plan! There ain't no plan."
Pig Killer, Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome
Arion is offline  
post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-03-2014, 11:38 AM
MTS
Member
 
MTS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NW USA
Posts: 3,518
Same story over and over. Some day an unhappy ending, but until than its steal as much money as you can!



Never pay again for live sex! | Hot girls doing naughty stuff for free! | Chat for free!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
( RIDE FREE BE SAFE )
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by MTS; 02-03-2014 at 01:08 PM.
MTS is offline  
post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-03-2014, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
motociclista's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arion View Post
Very interesting and informative article, Lance. It's a sad fact that one could easily replace "AMA" with the name of countless other commercial enterprises and have the story still ring true.
This is true. One of Dingman's criticisms of the AMA, when he came in, was that it was run too much like a club and not enough like a business. And to a large extent I actually agreed with him on that. The old loose way of doing business was one reason the former chairman of the board ended up doing jail time for embezzling money.

Unfortunately, the more "corporate" approach went too far, and now we have the same old "cult of the CEO" scenario where the board of directors and the CEO are too cozy and the CEO gets pay raises and bonuses while front-line AMA workers get laid off or see their pay frozen.

It's one thing when that goes on in the corporate sector, but I expect better from the non-profit membership organizations I join and support.

Whitehorse Press is going out of business so it's time for a final sale. Signed copies of my book are now $10 with free shipping in the U.S. while they last.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
motociclista is offline  
post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-03-2014, 05:34 PM
Member
 
Tigerpawed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,046
Interesting article, thanks. You're still an AMA member, though 'disgruntled' as you put it. Are you considering dropping your membership? I've been a member for five years or so, but I can't say I've done much with it, or it for me.

Someday is not a day of the week.
Tigerpawed is offline  
post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-03-2014, 08:01 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
motociclista's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigerpawed View Post
Interesting article, thanks. You're still an AMA member, though 'disgruntled' as you put it. Are you considering dropping your membership?
Hell no, I'm not dropping my membership! I'm just a few years away from becoming a Life Member.

Seriously, as someone once told me, rather wisely, getting pissed off and saying "I quit" is a vote you can only cast once and the impact is fleeting.

I'm sticking around as a member because it gives me standing to demand better from the association.

Whitehorse Press is going out of business so it's time for a final sale. Signed copies of my book are now $10 with free shipping in the U.S. while they last.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
motociclista is offline  
post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-03-2014, 09:34 PM
Member
 
Tigerpawed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by motociclista View Post
I'm sticking around as a member because it gives me standing to demand better from the association.
OK, well, I hope you have a positive impact, thanks!

Someday is not a day of the week.
Tigerpawed is offline  
post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-04-2014, 07:35 AM
Member
 
twowheeladdict's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,116
Garage
Not a member, but not surprised. Most organizations that require membership to keep going will use as many psychological manipulation techniques that they can to increase membership.
Scare tactics regarding motorcycle freedoms, roadside assistance, "freebies", etc.
They are our voice in Congress. The motorcycle industry should be the ones lobbying Congress.

My Versys Travels:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
twowheeladdict is offline  
post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-04-2014, 11:17 AM
Super Moderator
 
fasteddiecopeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Kelowna, BC - summer; Florence, AZ - winter
Posts: 16,799
As a Canadian, the AMA does nothing for me, but when my buddy had his big crash in 2008, hospitalized for about 11 months, with a $30,000 helicopter ride from the site to the hospital, it was an AMA policy (I believe part of the membership..?) that covered the 30K, so it certainly helped HIM.

Ed
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


'08 V AZ, '15 V650LT BC
Ride to D2D 2013, June '13

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ride to D2D 2015, June '15

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Ride to D2D 2016, June '16

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fasteddiecopeman is offline  
post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 02-08-2014, 07:51 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: ohio
Posts: 4
AMAs decline

What soured me on the AMA was when every year the admission price for the Mid Ohio vintage days was raised. Carl
carl k is offline  
post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-04-2014, 04:54 PM
Member
 
ryde4ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Camby, Indiana USA
Posts: 38
There is no perfect organization out there. They do occasionally do some things that help riders such as helping the gov. realize that E15 is bad news for bikes and snowmobiles.
They have helped keep a lot of public land open for ORV that would have went into a neverland not to be used by anybody for anything.
But honestly the roadside assistance is worth the dues. It is better coverage than AAA and only about a third of the cost.
But we each have to do what we feel is right.

Dennis
08 Versys
Sometimes it takes a whole tankful of fuel before you can think straight.
ryde4ever is offline  
post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-25-2014, 09:15 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Youngstown, OH
Posts: 133
Oh, who needs it? A motorcycling organization that's against helmet laws? It's completely useless and a detriment to riders everywhere.
TR Versys is offline  
post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-25-2014, 01:43 PM
Member
 
Zatx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 681
Quote:
Originally Posted by TR Versys View Post
Oh, who needs it? A motorcycling organization that's against helmet laws? It's completely useless and a detriment to riders everywhere.
It may have its flaws, but how the heck is it detrimental to riders.. especially "everywhere" as it only operates in the US?

I renew every year because it is the cheapest roadside assistance package out there and covers me with any vehicle I'm driving. Plus there are some good discounts from retailers that we all use.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


May the road always curve in front of you.
Zatx is offline  
post #16 of 18 (permalink) Old 04-26-2014, 07:15 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4
Joined when I was 18 to ride hare scrambles etc. Just became lifetime member at 48. Never really used it for anything, though have read many interesting articles over the years in their magazine. I have always felt that I was doing my part in helping to keep someone out there that works to keep the govt. from killing the only sport/ pleasure I like from becoming extinct. Helmets as with any gear are the riders choice. Now that I'm older, I fully suit up. Partially cause I can now afford to and also I believe I've gotten older and wiser. I believe the insurance companies had much to do with helmet laws. Less they pay to the hospitals when we get hurt, though life insurance will cost them..
huntz is offline  
post #17 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-24-2014, 08:53 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 169
Hello Motociclista,

Read both the article you wrote and the response you linked to. Your bit is obviously well formulated so it's clear your passionate about this and have done some research. I'm seeing discrepancies in the reported numbers though...you're saying it's 28% and in the follow up article Dingman claims 5% (after dismissing the Nationwide 14% loss)?

Either way, one thing I'm lacking from your write up is it's more a description of the symptoms which you're observing, and not much in terms of how it got like that (beyond absurd procedures to keep other candidates off of a ballot) and also what you think/believe could be done to rectify the situation. In other words, given the complexities of the organization, how do you think someone else could/would do any better?

CC

---------------------------------------------------
CrazyCarl is offline  
post #18 of 18 (permalink) Old 05-24-2014, 09:44 PM Thread Starter
Member
 
motociclista's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 403
CC:

There's no discrepancy in the numbers. Note that the article I linked to, quoting Dingman, is from 2010. Membership has continued to decline since then.

All of the statistics I cited are taken from the AMA's own annual reports, and I did that specifically so they can't say I'm reporting erroneous numbers. The 28% decline in membership is based on the numbers they reported. Others have tried to come up with independent estimates of membership based on tax documents and mailing permits for the magazine, and they claim the real figures are worse than what the AMA reports, but I am not even getting into that game. Even using the AMA's own stats, we see a 28% loss of membership and millions of dollars of financial losses in about six years.

How would someone else do better? Fair question. Also a very difficult one. I will honestly admit I do not have the answer. By contrast, Dingman has claimed to have all the answers and has been wrong every step of the way. He expected the AMA would be nearing a million members by now.

I believe the way the management of an organization, whether a corporation or a non-profit, gets the best results is to hire smart people, give them the tools they need to do their jobs and hold them accountable for results. Dingman's approach is different. He values loyalty above all else, and I mean loyalty to him, personally, not to the organization. (Here's an example.) As a result, people who have suggested ideas other than his have been fired or marginalized and the remaining employees know they have to keep quiet and follow orders.

This is not the environment for innovation. The AMA faces serious challenges. Building the membership would be difficult for any leader, but I believe it is impossible with Dingman's style of leadership. At the rate the AMA is losing money, it will be bankrupt in a decade or less unless something serious is done.

Whitehorse Press is going out of business so it's time for a final sale. Signed copies of my book are now $10 with free shipping in the U.S. while they last.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
motociclista is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki Versys Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome