Could removing the trellis affect shock absorbing? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
 
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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-21-2012, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
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Could removing the trellis affect shock absorbing?

I have read most discussions about removing the trellis, which lead me to the believe it's safe to remove them. I also like the cleaner look.

But since I took them off I think I'm feeling like the rear shock is stiffer/harder, and I can feel small bumps on the road much more evidently than before.
Could it be related to fact that I removed the trellis?
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-21-2012, 11:13 AM
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Well, you've removed a little weight from the back of the bike. And the subframe may be flexing a bit more without the support of the trellis.

My conclusion is that you have a very sensitive ass. If you think you feel a difference, put the trellis back on as an experiment and note whether there is a difference.

George
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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-21-2012, 04:28 PM
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You could play with your shock adjustment as well. A little tweek could make all the difference.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-21-2012, 04:30 PM
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Avivik - Removing the rear trellis, I believe, does no harm whatsoever, is not structural, nor is it designed to be - look at how it's bolted on, not a big deal. I removed mine soon after I took delivery and it tidies up the rear end nicely. Get yourself a tail tidy while you're at it too to really finish it off...!
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-26-2012, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrocks View Post
wrong, the trellis is structural, and is designed to brace the subframe. the ER6 subframe does not have a comparable brace and is constructed differently. ok to ride solo, but put luggage on there, either top box or panniers, you best have the trellis mounted.
Sorry mate, but it ain't. I even checked with Mr Kwak himself, who confirmed that it wasn't. I agree that it may be useful for fitting touring gear, but if it was structural in the purest sense, it wouldn't be so easy to take it off - and I'm sure there'd be a warning plastered somewhere.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-26-2012, 12:57 PM
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Sorry mate, but it ain't. I even checked with Mr Kwak himself, who confirmed that it wasn't. I agree that it may be useful for fitting touring gear, but if it was structural in the purest sense, it wouldn't be so easy to take it off - and I'm sure there'd be a warning plastered somewhere.
zedseven50, I must respectfully say that you, are in fact, incorrect. Regardless of what 'Mr. Kwak' told you, I can say from actual experience that the rear trellises are structural.

How do I know this? Actual personal experience.

When my V has been used solely as an around town bike, and commuter, I've had the trellises removed, and carried a top box - usually with no more than 25 lbs in it. In this manner of use I've never noticed any deflection in the subframe.

During my first long-distance road trip on the V - 12.5k miles from the Great Lakes region, around AK, and back, I had the bike loaded-down with >100 lbs of gear, to include hard side cases, the top box, and a large duffel. For this trip, the trellises were reinstalled. I apparently did not thoroughly loctite the bolts when I reinstalled the trellises, as all six bots holding the two trellises in place vibrated loose. I discovered they were loose, due to a squeeking caused by the subframe flexing both vertically and laterally under load, when the rear suspension was actuated. When I retightened the bolts, the sub frame stopped flexing. BTW, while the trellises were loose, I was also able to manually flex the subframe halding onto the hard bags. when I retightened the trellis bolts, I was unable to do this.

Is you actually look at a bare ER-6 frame and a bare Versys frame (or pictures of them), you can see that the Versys frame is missing two (if I remember correctly) reinforcing structures (welded braces, etc.) that the ER-6 frame has.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-26-2012, 02:58 PM
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Ednukey and JDRocks - Well, I take your points and experiences on board and will keep a close eye on things. I don't use luggage, never carry a pillion and with over 2000 miles on the clock without the trellis it hasn't folded up on me yet. On the limits, it remains one of the best handling and agile bikes that I've owned.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-04-2012, 04:00 AM
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I believe the trellis is structural. When i was removing my sidecase rack I had some of the bolts that held the trellis to the subframe removed. When I sat on it I could hear it squeaking as it flexed. Not a good sound at all. I'm 6' about 175.

My guess as why they have made it so easy to remove is because it was basically an afterthought. You take a ninja 650r or an er-6n and you basically use them as a parts bin for the versys. You can't have the same subframe because its a different riding position. My guess is there were design constraints involving existing mounting points on the 650r frame. If you look at how the trellis connects to the frame, it actually uses the rearset as a mounting point, which in turn is connected to the frame. The rearset is therefore a stressed member as well, which it looks to be from how substantial it is compared to most other bikes rearsets. Its really a poor design but I can see it being done in an effort to cut costs.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-04-2012, 12:12 PM
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I've had my trellis removed and haven't had a problem. No creaking, no flexing, nothing noticeable at all.


Good luck exploring the infinite abyss
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-04-2012, 02:43 PM
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My trellis is removed and I weigh 230lbs. No flex or squeeks. If I had a lot of cargo or a passenger I would put it back on as it will brace things up. Has anyone seen a frame that bent due to not having the trellis? If I see that I will re-install it.
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-05-2012, 07:25 AM
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Wow, this generated two different camps..! Mine's off and it's staying off. Come the day that it all folds up I'll let you know...!
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-05-2012, 12:10 PM
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Wow, this generated two different camps..! Mine's off and it's staying off. Come the day that it all folds up I'll let you know...!
...IF you're still alive!

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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-06-2012, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdrocks View Post
so if not, does that mean he's in camp number two?

we need some clarification, perhaps you can provide it, Mr. FEC.
Well, there may be a need for a third camp.....
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-06-2012, 02:58 PM
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Wow, this generated two different camps..! Mine's off and it's staying off. Come the day that it all folds up I'll let you know...!
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Originally Posted by fasteddiecopeman View Post
...IF you're still alive!
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Originally Posted by jdrocks View Post
so if not, does that mean he's in camp number two?

we need some clarification, perhaps you can provide it, Mr. FEC.
I figure that IF it folds, and does so at speed, it's NOT something I care to try just to say I did...!

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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-07-2012, 10:30 PM
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BTW thanks JDRocks for all the pics, it's nice to see the differences. I will be checking my frame on a semi regular basis.
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post #16 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-08-2012, 12:40 AM
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IMO it is structural, not the main stuff but as a reinforcement to the main structure. Designed to under take heavy loads with a pillion and fully loaded. I would put them on if the loading is going to be heavy when the weights start to pile up at the pillion seat and behind. A lone rider will not do much stress bending to the frame as the bending moment or force is proportional to the distance of the loading to the fixed point.

It may not break now but a risk of fatigue failure could show up after some time.

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post #17 of 20 (permalink) Old 03-09-2012, 09:01 PM
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The great thing about steel is it shows signs of fatigue way before failure. Cracking paint would be an indication of the frame tubes bending. Steel just doesn't snap in two without warning, carbon fiber does and sometimes aluminum but not steel.
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post #18 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-10-2012, 09:32 PM
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When you have a passenger it is structural, when you are solo it is not. Unless you are really heavy solo.

Has anyone heard of the tail breaking off without the passenger peg holder?

No, no you haven't.

I have put 5000 miles on with a SW rear rack and luggage, no support.

Silly argument.

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post #19 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-11-2012, 06:05 AM
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Me thinks I'm keeping mine on.
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post #20 of 20 (permalink) Old 05-11-2012, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chitownpete View Post
The great thing about steel is it shows signs of fatigue way before failure. Cracking paint would be an indication of the frame tubes bending. Steel just doesn't snap in two without warning, carbon fiber does and sometimes aluminum but not steel.
The problem is that you have to be looking for the signs to recognize them.
How many of us even bother to do any daily checklist inspection before hitting the road?
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