Windshield vs Helmet Choice - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 02:26 PM Thread Starter
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Windshield vs Helmet Choice

Hi all -

I am still having trouble with buffeting at highway speeds - I have a givi and Mike's... and have just ordered the madstad bracket...

My question is - have any of you replaced your helmet, and did it make a difference? I have been thinking that perhaps it is the design of my late model HJC full face - I think is the HJC-15 model - no frills.

Tnx


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post #2 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 02:39 PM
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I wouldn't think the helmet would have anything to do with getting rid of the buffeting. Don't take this the wrong way but with the givi and the Mike's and you still have problems....maybe your just expecting too much? I have the stock windshield and a modular helmet..and yes I get buffeting on the highway, but nothing that I wouldn't expect. Just a thought.


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post #3 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 02:53 PM
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I am having this same problem with my '10 and have to wait until new windshields are developed for that year since there is a difference compared to older models. I have 3 different helmets and they all have buffeting but when leaning behind the stock windshield at 75MPH it feels just fine so like on my old '04 VStrom I had back in 2005, I just need a taller windshield. I tested this temporarily with a tall windshield off my '08 DR650 and it worked great on my Versys only it looked really dorky so I am waiting for California Scientific to finish testing their prototype which should happen in a week or so. How tall are you and what is your inseam? Any mods to the seat? I am 5'11" with a 32" inseam so I need a really tall windshield to limit the buffeting.



Quote:
Originally Posted by csa714 View Post
Hi all -

I am still having trouble with buffeting at highway speeds - I have a givi and Mike's... and have just ordered the madstad bracket...

My question is - have any of you replaced your helmet, and did it make a difference? I have been thinking that perhaps it is the design of my late model HJC full face - I think is the HJC-15 model - no frills.

Tnx
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post #4 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 02:57 PM
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Ill let you know how the madstad, plus givi, plus laminar lip work out after this thursday or friday.
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post #5 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
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I am 6'1" ; 32" inseam. It is driving me crazy - I am hoping that the madstad will make a difference.

As far as expectations - I had a suzi bandit with a touring screen and it was much better than the v (wind etc). It is a motorcycle, I know, but literally my neck aches after I ride the V because of the buffeting. If I can't resolve it - I am afraid another bike is in my future.


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post #6 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csa714 View Post
Hi all -

I am still having trouble with buffeting at highway speeds - I have a givi and Mike's... and have just ordered the madstad bracket...

My question is - have any of you replaced your helmet, and did it make a difference? I have been thinking that perhaps it is the design of my late model HJC full face - I think is the HJC-15 model - no frills.

Tnx
I have a HJC CL-SP full face helmet. I experimented with different thickness cheek pads (because the stock pads pushed on my jaw joint too much). I found that when I installed thinner cheek pads, the buffeting effects got much worse! What happened was the thin cheek pads caused a loose fit on the helmet, and it would then "bobble and bounce around" in the turbulence. It amplified the buffeting problem. I put the standard cheek pads back in the 70% of the buffeting disappeared.

Now I ride with my mouth partially open most of the time to take the pressure off my jaw joint.
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post #7 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 04:57 PM
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The trick is with the Madstad is to slant it back just a bit and most of the buffeting disappears.

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post #8 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 06:20 PM
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I have the same issue with sever buffeting as well. I have the Algard windshield brackets and a Mikes's touring shield. It is the best with the shield at the lowest setting and about a 75 degree tilt. Still not reall good. I t pushes my helmet around worse than any bike I've owned in 30 years.
For a helmet, I wear an HJC IS-Max, FWIW...

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post #9 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 06:43 PM
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here's a thought, maybe some of you have tried it... instead of trying to raise the airstream ever higher, to get it over your helmet and move the eddies further behind, why not try the opposite? lower the airstream and let your helmet cut thru the clean air above. with the stock screen in the low position, maybe upside down, as some other clever boys here have tried, perhaps the wind will hit you in the chest or shoulders. if that doesn't make your headache go away, at least it was free.

alternately, there's this:



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post #10 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-24-2010, 11:07 PM
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yes, different helmets have different airflow around them and affect buffeting. For example, the HJC works best with the triumph, and the arai works best with the V...
I'd get a vario wing for the givi before I'd get a madstad bracket....
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post #11 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-25-2010, 02:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StonedGP View Post
The trick is with the Madstad is to slant it back just a bit and most of the buffeting disappears.
+1
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post #12 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-25-2010, 06:35 AM
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I have the stock upside down in lowest, and am 6´1 but it still hits me in the face.
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post #13 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-25-2010, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by spainy View Post
I have the stock upside down in lowest, and am 6´1 but it still hits me in the face.
does it cause buffeting?

In a world full of people, only some want to ride. Isn't that crazy?
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post #14 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-25-2010, 11:07 AM
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Just to be clear about what we’re talking about...

Stand up on the pegs and you’ll hear the somewhat loud but smooth wooooosh of “clean air”.

Lay down on the tank (watch your zippers) with your head right behind the windshield and you should hear the relatively quite sound of “still air”.

Somewhere in between you’ll hear the loud `flubadaflubadaflubada’ ( hey, YOU try to spell it ) sound of “turbulent air”.

If you put your hand right in front of your face, you’ll be able to feel the precise area of turbulence across your fingers.

I’m about 5’9” / 32” inseam and on my 2010 with the stock windshield (tilted forward) the turbulence hits me right at eye/ear level.

It’s awful with my 3/4 open-face helmet and while it’s better, it’s still loud with my full-face Nolan N-102 (a flip up chin style).

I used to think my Nolan helmet was really quite on my other bike which had a full-sized windshield but my buddy who has the same Nolan helmet said that his other full-face (non flip-up) was much quieter than his Nolan (and he’s behind a semi-short windshield).

So, back to the original question of the thread; my conclusion is (not surprisingly) it’s both the windshield (where you head sits in the airflow) and the helmet (how it handles that airflow and what if any sound deadening it provides).
.

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post #15 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-25-2010, 11:12 AM
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does it cause buffeting?
Yes. I have discovered that if I stand on the pegs whilst driving it becomes smoother - no `flubadaflubadaflubada’ .
I use my hand to determine where the air is, and it´s hitting me right in the face. I also had it upside down at the highest setting and it was still hitting me in the visor and forehead.

I might flip it again to test where it´s hitting me upright.
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post #16 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-25-2010, 11:42 AM
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After 3 years and nearly 30k miles, I just got the tall Powerbronze. With that ear plugs and my Nolan N103 flip helmet, I'd give it about 7 out of 10, up from about 4 out of 10 with the stock shield.

I'm 5'10" and I know even 1" in height can make a difference.

Its a lot of trial and error, balanced with your wallet and aesthetics. There are some huge windshields out there that probably do a great job, but they look like ****.

Machog


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post #17 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-25-2010, 01:21 PM
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hardware, i'm gonna disagree with your description of turbulent flow. hard to demo without a wind tunnel and streams of smoke, but i think that air coming over the top and hitting me in the chinbar is laminar flow, nice and smooth, not turbulent. turbulent implies eddies and chaotic flow patterns.

otoh, once it hits the helmet, that square edge at the bottom of the helmet induces eddies and creates the majority of "wind noise" on a moto (shrug your shoulders, it'll quiet down). that's definitely turbulent. probably every helmet will create some, it's just a matter of how much, based on shape and the placement of the helmet in the airstream.

imho, not worth a lot of effort or money to fix wind noise, you'd have to make that still air pocket huge. vetter windjammer on a versys. earplugs are cheap and easy.

the turbulence that causes helmet buffeting happens, i think, further back, in my case too far behind me to matter. the buffeting would be the result of the turbulence induced by the imperfect aerodynamics of a human on a motorcycle... airflow over and around your body, sucked into the vacuum at your back, pushes your helmet around. this, i imagine, would suck.


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There are some huge windshields out there that probably do a great job, but they look like ****.
ain't that the truth! it's gotta be a serious problem to inspire such fuglification. do any of you cats in search of the perfect screen wear earplugs? are you trying to cure buffeting or noise?

i don't get the buffeting and i wear earplugs, so i'm just curious. i once rode a transalp that had one of those gigantic screens and that was the only time i ever felt buffeting on a moto. i also didn't appreciate looking thru it, the distortion was disconcerting. so i wonder "why?" every time i see those barn door screens.

In a world full of people, only some want to ride. Isn't that crazy?
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Last edited by kevrider; 05-25-2010 at 01:23 PM.
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post #18 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-25-2010, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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Yes to the ear plugs - wind noise is 1 item - but my head feels like three monkey are slapping my helmet continuously - left, right, up down, and thrrumpbawubdup, thrrumpbawubdupthrrumpbawubdup - speeds over 75 are same, but faster with an occassional bdbdbdbdbbbbdbdbdbd. Helmet was fine on other bikes so it is not the fit.

I have a Givi and Mikes - just ordered madstad - when I get it I will adjust with both, with pics, as it seems a lot of people are interested - I am not looking for perfection, just an enjoyable highway ride.


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post #19 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-25-2010, 02:49 PM
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In order to have a quiet riding environment, experts say that you need the correct height windscreen. The other variables are 1, how close you are behind it and 2, the angle of the windscreen. To determine the correct height, sit on your bike in your normal riding position. Look straight ahead (not up or down). The top of your windshield should be on a parrallel plane with an area somewhere between the tip and the bridge of your nose. Reasons: if it was any taller, you would be looking through it and motorcycles don't have wipers and the relatively more curved shield can distort the view. At this correct height, the wind, turbulance and bugs all sweep over your head, leaving your head in "clean" air. Then you are free to hear all those little noises in your engine you may not want to hear. It's surprising what you can hear when there is no wind turbulence. That being said, not everyone wants a tall windscreen and if not, the upside down stocker and earplugs combo is good. In that case, yor head is out in the wind but it shouldn't be too turbulent because the shield is pretty short. It's the in between screen height that causes the most turbulence. Bottom line, if the turbulence is directed away from your head either over or under it, you will have a much quieter ride.
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post #20 of 33 (permalink) Old 05-25-2010, 03:18 PM
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I spend hundreds on previous bikes trying to get rid of wind noise cause by buffeting.
The gadget what worked was a laminat lip not sure if they do one for a versys.

Helmets I like Schuberths
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