Tyre (tire) Wear and Suspension Setup - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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Tyre (tire) Wear and Suspension Setup

Hi all just thought I'd put this one out to the Brains trust before seeking more assistance.

Firstly my 2007 Versys has completed over 42000km

Currently I've Ridden 7000km on set of Michelin Pilot Road 3 purely commuting.

air pressure when cold is 32 front 36 rear.

The front end wear is fantastic no issues are of concern, however the rear tyre has some issues. The leading edge of the sipes around the tyre are worn down and the trailing edge of each sipe has a distinct raised feathered edge.




after doing a little research,(thanks Dave Moss) I found this wear could be caused by the rebound being too fast.

So would I be correct in trying to alleviate the issue by winding my rebound wheel on the standard rear shock towards 'S' (softer) set currently 5 clicks out from softest setting, or do you think owing to the age of the shock and lack of adjust-ability, its outlived its usefulness and I need to upgrade to an Aftermarket / rebuilt / R1 Modified Shock.


in a nutshell can I tune out this wear somewhat with the Standard Shock. or am I asking too much.
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 10:31 PM
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You can't correct the wear pattern of a tyre once is has started as the casing has already formed a shape. You would need to replace the tyre and then try adjusting it.
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post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 11:15 PM Thread Starter
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found interesting read here, http://www.rattlebars.com/tirewear/
summarized if you don't want to use the link

Cupping, which is more accurately described as scalloping is a natural wear pattern on motorcycle tires and it will always follow the tread pattern. It is not a sign that you have bad suspension parts. It merely shows that your tire is indeed gripping the road when you make turns.

This cupping develops within the side wear bands of a leaned motorcycle. The extreme forces that come in to play when the bike is leaned in a turn are what produce the effect and when the wear becomes sufficient, one will experience vibration and noise when one banks into a turn.

The leading edge of the tread does not flex much as it grips the road and the rubber is scuffed off the tire in that area causing a depression. As the tire rotates, the pressure moves to the trailing edge of the tread pattern where the tread flexes more causing less scuffing so less material is ground off the tire.

The more complex the tread pattern, the more complex the cupping pattern will be. The softer the compound of the tire, the sooner this cupping will develop. Radial tires are more prone to cupping than are bias ply because the compound of radials is softer.

Low tire pressure will exacerbate this wear pattern and you will lose many serviceable miles by running low. Improper balance has nothing to do with cupping on a motorcycle tire. Improper balance will merely cause your bike to vibrate within certain specific speed ranges.

what's happening is that the individual "blocks" or "islands" of tread are squirming and deforming due to the forces applied to them during cornering and braking. When this deforming takes place, the wear is naturally not evenly distributed across the surface of the tread. (I define a tread block as an area of the tire surface surrounded by a groove.)

As a visual representation take a new pencil with an unused eraser on the end and while holding the pencil perfectly vertical, push down and drag the eraser on a rough surface in one direction. Look at the eraser and note that all the wear is on the leading edge and not evenly distributed across the end surface of the eraser. It makes the concept easier to understand.
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post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 11:23 PM
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Unfortunately the PR3's are known for this type of wear. The PR2's and PR4's are a lot better. I've seen a few posts about odd wear on PR3's.
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post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-19-2015, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
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Heya Mav, ya was wondering why Michelin moved on to the PR4's so fast. I had similar wear patterns on my previous Angel ST's but nowhere near as noticeable.. will do a search for that now.
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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-20-2015, 01:56 AM
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you are over thing it, that wear is normal.

unless your shock is bouncing or like a pogo stick its ok, by the way race tech do a rebuilt kit which would improve the shock by a long way rather than look for another
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-20-2015, 06:07 AM
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you are over thing it, that wear is normal.
I was thinking the same thing. Seems to me that I read somewhere along the line that that type of "trailing feather" (for lack of a better word) is due to rolling the throttle on in corners. All I know is that it looks like every tire I've ever owned.
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-20-2015, 12:20 PM
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...Improper balance has nothing to do with cupping on a motorcycle tire. Improper balance will merely cause your bike to vibrate within certain specific speed ranges....
I'm NOT sure I totally agree....

On my 2009 Alaska ride (on a KLR) I saw another KLR that had about 8 to 12" of its rear tire w/ NO tread left, just the carcass. He'd replaced his tire, but, rather than balance it, he'd just left the original lead tire weight where it'd been, so it was SEVERELY out-of-balance, and had worn that portion of tread off...!


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post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-20-2015, 03:57 PM
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I have read about tire wear being affected by suspension settings. But sadly, I don't know enough about it.

2013 Kawasaki Versys- Blue/Black
2014 Honda Grom- Red/Black
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-21-2015, 05:09 AM
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very worn or badly set up suspension would effect tire wear, but the way you ride, roads and having unbalanced wheels would have the biggest effect, throttle usage would be my number 1 effect, followed by corner speed.
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post #11 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-21-2015, 12:03 PM
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The tire wear seems normal to me.The question remains, at 42,000 KM is your bike due to have suspension components replaced or refreshed?
I would say yes. At similar mileage (27k) I replaced my shock with an aftermarket offering. The difference was huge. With suspension, the degradation of performance is so gradual that you don't realize it's happening. The improvement is night and day though.
I was not aware of a shock rebuild kit until I read this thread. I'm not sure that it would have made any difference in my choice. The new shock bolted in easily and involved no down-time on the bike.
Although the forks were serviced soon after I got the shock, we were never able to get sufficient rebound damping. I softened up the rebound on the shock to keep the bike in balance. Maybe RaceTech could help, but I have yet to see a true success story with their stuff on anything that isn't ridden race pace. A friend with a Versys had his forks re-sprung according to their chart and the result is way too stiff for a sport/tour bike IMO. I'm waiting for his to get sorted before I dive into mine. But like most people with suspension issues he's learned to live with it.
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post #12 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-21-2015, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
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I would tend to agree with you Baron, I'll be attending to it when my next service is due.
My new Mechanic is a 'hyperpro' stockist so i may go down that route.
If that is too expensive for my Finance Minister, then I'll go for the 07/08 R1 shock (seems to be a popular choice).
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post #13 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-22-2015, 09:10 AM
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What is your weight with all gear included? Nobody has mentioned air pressure here, but I've found that it is very critical to match riding weight to pressure, especially in hot weather. I once ruined a tire in less than 1000 km due to extreme heat with no allowance for extra weight on the bike. I replaced the tire and kept it at 6 psi higher than usual for the remainder of the trip without undo wear on the new tire.
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post #14 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-22-2015, 12:09 PM
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Smiley - I've run 36F and 42R on all my bikes, and I get PDG mileage on them. USUALLY at least 10,000 miles R, and 12,000F. I'm about 177# "soaking-wet", so, 200# ATGATT.

BTW - I do NOT "air-down" for dirt.

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post #15 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-22-2015, 03:28 PM
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Hey guru's, I've got the stock tires on a late 2012 with over 7k miles.

Radials with the usd forks and single rear shocks do great with this 'light' 300 pounds

I can find out what is on it later, but I'd like the same thing, but more mile worthy. Mine are obviously dry rotted with the miles and years, and they are starting to wear funky now that top Dry rot layer is wearing through. I am not confident on sharp corners until I get new rubber.

Is there a tweak model from the stock tire brand models? O/w, I am real happy with the overall handling: Supermoto touring at it's best!
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post #16 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-22-2015, 05:54 PM
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Rear shock rebound settings that are off can show up as "scrubbed" type wear. I'd be WAY more concerned on how it handles bumps, particularly stutter bumps for the rebound, and adjust the suspension for that, not tire wear (on the street). You want the fastest rebound the bike can handle without undue movement, like kicking you up out of the seat, that way you always have suspension travel ready to do its job. Slower rebound feels better but you pay the price in travel used up and not available for the next bump.
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post #17 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-22-2015, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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Hey Smiley, I'm just shy of 200 with gear and top box, and as mentioned in the original post im running 32f and 36r psi in my tires, but as I've since found in other posts the PR3's can possible improve wear with a touch more. I will up it a bit at a time to confirm.
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post #18 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-23-2015, 12:46 AM
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same wear patterns on my rear PR3. i had assumed that the rear shock rebound was insufficient.

i am close to 200pounds, and runs 37psi all the time. 2nd PR3 in a row.

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post #19 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-23-2015, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
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Smiley - I've run 36F and 42R on all my bikes, and I get PDG mileage on them. USUALLY at least 10,000 miles R, and 12,000F. I'm about 177# "soaking-wet", so, 200#.
I'm about 10 lb. heavier, but I have no cases or top box, so I probably have lower gross weight than you. I find that the recommended 32 and 36 psi gives me great handling and reasonable wear~ generally around 12-14000 km. My tires (presently PR 2) wear evenly with no chunking or scalloping. I mostly ride for pleasure in a somewhat sporting manner but when I head out for a weeks worth of touring I up the pressure 2 psi front and rear to account for additional luggage weight.

I ran my Concours @ 36 and 42, but it was at least 250 pounds heavier bike. Not sure that I'd like the handling of the V with that much pressure, particularly in the wet. I'll sacrifice some wear for better handling, but to each his own.
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post #20 of 25 (permalink) Old 01-23-2015, 11:57 AM
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... Not sure that I'd like the handling of the V with that much pressure, particularly in the wet. I'll sacrifice some wear for better handling, but to each his own.
I've dragged the "feeler" on my left footpeg SEVERAL times at 36F, 42R....


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