Motoman (Pat McGivern) break in method - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-15-2015, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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Question Motoman (Pat McGivern) break in method

Guys and Gals,

I have a 2012 Versys 650 with 36 miles on it that I bought in like new condition.

Can/should I use the Motoman break in method or should I use the owner's manual break in method because the bike already has 36 miles on it?

I'll be riding with a buddy who has Kawa 1400 and I'll need all the power I can get.

Thanks for your help and sharing your experience and expertise.
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post #2 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-15-2015, 03:11 PM
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Which method do you want to use?
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post #3 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-15-2015, 03:23 PM
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Do the Motoman!
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post #4 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-15-2015, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by trialsguy View Post
Which method do you want to use?
See the modified Motoman break in method below:

"How to break in your new bike

This is an area of no small controversy. Here's my opinion, after breaking in 21 new motorcycles. You can get other opinions from Moto Man or in your owner's manual. You'll find what I have to say is in reasonable agreement with Moto Man, and we both contradict your owner's manual rather strongly.

I believe when breaking in a new engine you have several things to accomplish, and several things to avoid. Your new engine is not perfectly machined, and in the course of running for the first few hours a fair amount of metal will be worn off various engine parts and wind up in your oil. These metal chips will quickly overwhelm your oil filter, which is really not made to handle the volume of junk that happens in the first couple hours. You don't want to drive around a for a long time with a lot of metal chips in your oil.

In the first 15 to 30 minutes you run your motor, there can be very small hot spots that get to temperatures that are really not at all healthy for your motor. The motor overall is a large system and will almost certainly not overheat, but this doesn't mean every little spot on your pistons, rings, bearings, and cylinder walls is within temperature spec. Of course, you don't want to overheat your motor.

My opinion: The bike should be started and allowed to warm up at an idle for about two minutes. This is to get the oil at something close to operating temperature. Then, ride the bike normally for about 5 miles. Stay off freeways or anywhere else that would make you maintain a constant speed. Don't lug the engine - run the engine in the mid-range rpm band, roughly 1/3 to 2/3 of the red line rpm. You want to be accelerating and decelerating, and using the engine as a brake to slow you down at times. Stop, turn off the engine, and let the engine cool for about 5 minutes. This is to even out the temperature in case there are any hot spots. Start the bike and ride for about 10 minutes, again in stop and go traffic. Stop and allow about 5 minutes for the engine temperature to even out.

Now, ride the bike fairly hard for about 25 to 50 miles. A mountain or curvy road is a good thing at this point. You can use the entire rpm band, up to and perhaps even a bit over the red line. Make sure to accelerate and decelerate a lot, using full throttle and using the engine as a brake. Notice that your owner's manual says at this point you should still be keeping the RPM under something like 4,000. I disagree with this quite strongly. Moto Man gives a good argument on why the factories give such a recommendation, which goes against all my experience and understanding and what every racing team in the universe does.

At about 50 miles, go home and change the oil and the filter. I strongly recommend you use a top quality oil filter, a Purolator Pure One, Mobil-1, Bosch, or SuperTech. I recommend you use a synthetic oil such as Shell Rotella, Mobil-1 SUV, or Delvac-1. If you simply can't bring yourself to use a synthetic in a new engine, use Chevron Delo-400. Don't use a 10w-30 oil. If your manufacturer recommends a 20w-50 oil, use Mobil-1 red cap or Chevron Delo-400 15w-40, which meets the high speed shear standards of a 20w-50 oil. Information on oils and oil filters is available on this web page, see the Lubricants section. When you take out your factory oil, if you hold it up in the sunlight you'll see the color is very good, it looks almost completely unused, but you'll see lots of reflections from metal flakes in the oil. These flakes are very bad for your engine, and can clog up your oil filter so that your filter bypass is activated, meaning you effectively don't have an oil filter. Notice that the factory says you should still be using the factory oil and oil filter. I think this is insane.

Corvettes and Porsches come from the factory with Mobil-1 in their engines. Remember, these engineers have designed world- champion engines for F1, Indy, Le Mans 24 hours, etc.

At this point, the bulk of your break-in is done. Your rings are substantially seated, your cylinder walls are scrubbed in, and your transmission gears have shed the bulk of their machining flaws. You can ride your bike now like it's broken in, except I recommend you try to avoid lugging the engine or running at a constant speed on the freeway for long times until after your next oil change.

When you have 500 to 800 miles on the bike, change the oil and filter again. Again, I recommend a synthetic oil, or Chevron Delo-400, or if the manufacturer recommends 20w-50 use Mobil-1 red cap or Chevron Delo-400 15w-40. If you have a drive shaft, now's the time to change your rear end gear lube. Use a good synthetic in there, like Mobil-1 or Valvoline synthetic gear lube. Continue to ride the bike normally. At this point, you can get on the freeway and drone if you simply must.

At 2000 to 2500 miles, change the oil and filter again. Your bike is now pretty much completely broken in. There will still be a small amount of break in stuff happening until up to 10,000 miles, but it's nothing you have to think about. You can now get onto a sensible oil change schedule. I recommend changing your oil every 2500 miles if you use a normal automotive oil. If you use one of the recommended synthetic oils and recommend oil filters, you can confidently go 5,000 miles between changes. I go 8,000 to 9,000 miles on an oil change, and I measure the oil viscosity and detergent after every change. A good synthetic will hold up this long in a modern water-cooled engine. Except for the Ural, every motorcycle made after about 1985 has what I consider a modern engine. Even Harleys."
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post #5 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-15-2015, 05:44 PM
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It is already past the miles to do the motoman method.

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post #6 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-15-2015, 07:02 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by twowheeladdict View Post
It is GTWN5550DWWtGTWN5550DWWlready past the miles to do the motoman method.
What is the maximum number of miles a bike can have and still use the Motoman break in method?
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post #7 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-15-2015, 07:43 PM
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Not sure. I couldn't find a number on his site. I would still do it.
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post #8 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-15-2015, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by waltermitty View Post
Not sure. I couldn't find a number on his site. I would still do it.
Yes, my research indicates that the MotoMan break in method is best. The suggestion to change the oil now and then MotoMan the bike sounds good.

How does one get in touch with MotoMan?
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post #9 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-15-2015, 10:38 PM
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I always changed the oil very frequently and break it in like your going to normaly ride the bike.
Remember everything has to stretch to seat so rpm's are important.

Never had an issue with any new engine or rebuilt engine.

My two cents......
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post #10 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-16-2015, 06:31 AM
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it doesn't matter i babied my bike on run in...its fine does not burn oil and is powerful..the factory gun the motor on the production line to check max power anyway, so do what you want
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post #11 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-16-2015, 02:50 PM
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Every single motor is run, revved and generally 99% through its break-in by the time it arrives in the dealer.

Just drive the thing.

Think about it this way, when you buy a used bike and dont know the first owner, do you think about how it was broken in? Have you ever heard someone say "I'm the third owner, and the motor popped because the first owner didnt break it in right"?

No one has heard that ever.

Motoman is right in that the factory break-in method is unnecessary. Thats about where breakin theory needs to end though. Unless you're building some hand grenade top-fuel drag motor, the break in method is essentially meaningless

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post #12 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-16-2015, 03:37 PM
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Newer bike and car engines are built to closer tolerances so break in is less critical than it once was. Since not a single engine manufacturer has endorsed moto man or a similar method I question the legitimacy of this. He also has no credentials in metallurgy or engine design and is not an engineer. He backs his claims only with anecdotal data. I would assume he simply got lucky in going against manufacturer recommendations and the engines he tried to break are well built.

Who's to say though that not taking any special steps at break in time would produce similar or better results.

I prefer the common sense method. Common sense would tend to indicate varying the engine speed and gears during the break in is important to allow for even wear in. So to is changing the oil after the first few hundred miles to eliminate metal particles from the rings seating and other parts wearing in. Not lugging the engine or stressing it too much by revving it out to the red line under heavy load would seem sensible too. Surprisingly the common sense method is very similar to the manufacturer's recommendations for break in. Coincidence, probably not.

Just because some guy with a web site/blog says extra virgin olive oil is the best damn chain lube ever does not mean it actually is.

Last edited by twowheels; 07-21-2015 at 05:43 PM.
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post #13 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-16-2015, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by trill View Post
...Can/should I use the Motoman break in method or should I use the owner's manual break in method because the bike already has 36 miles on it?...
MY advice is that you CAN and you SHOULD. BOTH my Vs were broken-in w/in the first 50 miles or so.

Ed
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post #14 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-16-2015, 05:24 PM
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Originally Posted by twowheels View Post
Newer bike and car engines are built to closer tolerances so break in is less critical than it once was. Since not a single engine manufacturer has endorsed moto man or his method. He backs his claims only with antidotal data. I would assume he simply got lucky in going against manufacturer recommendations and the engines he tried to break in are built better than they once were.

Who's to say not taking any special steps at break in time would produce the same results.

Just cause some guy on the with a website says extra virgin olive oil is the best damn chain lube ever does not mean it actually is.
Agreed.

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post #15 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-16-2015, 07:35 PM
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Have you ever explored how engine builders break in their engines? Mass produced engines only have to last until the warranty expires
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post #16 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-16-2015, 10:10 PM
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Since not a single engine manufacturer has endorsed moto man or a similar method I question the legitimacy of this.
I've seen cars being driven off the assembly line either into a dyno and redlined in every gear, or into the test track, where they also get redlined, although not in every gear. They just can't say it's fine to go ahead and drive the piss out of the vehicle mostly because of:

a) Brakes. Not seated, not effective.
b) Operator error. Not familiar with the new vehicle, handling and lack of braking.
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Quote:
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What is the maximum number of miles a bike can have and still use the Motoman break in method?
1

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post #18 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-17-2015, 09:24 AM
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Better a bit later than never. Do the Motoman style break in now... You haven't significantly jeopardized your new engine by lugging it for only 36 miles, and you certainly aren't now committed to wait and miss your opportunity to perform an optimal engine break in. If anything, you've now just completed the first stage of your break in, with a moderately ridden first few miles.

Last edited by invader; 01-17-2015 at 09:34 AM.
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post #19 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-17-2015, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
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MY advice is that you CAN and you SHOULD. BOTH my Vs were broken-in w/in the first 50 miles or so.
Please give details of the break in of both your Vs in fifty miles or so.
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post #20 of 47 (permalink) Old 01-17-2015, 10:06 AM
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How 'bout mine. 5 miles to warm up, change oil and filter. 5 miles to warm up, 3 pulls at 1/2 throttle to 5,000, 3 pulls to 7,500 at 3/4 throttle, 3 pulls at full throttle to redline. Change oil and filter. Oil for first 1,000 miles Rotella 15w40 conventional. Change oil and filter again at 1,000 to Rotella T6 5w40, then at 3,000 and multiples.

I take it pretty easy after the initial break-in to 1,000 miles.
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