lower rear = how much on the front - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-05-2014, 03:13 AM Thread Starter
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lower rear = how much on the front

I am thinking of different front forks and will need to lower the rear to maintain geometry. At this point the easy way is with a lowering block - maybe not the best way as it will change my spring rate - but easy for now

Speedys kit lowers the rear by 47mm
A local Thai clone (why is that a surprise) lowers the rear 30mm

Speedys instructions are a bit vague in exactly how much to lower the front. Reading the threads here most riders take it to the max of 20 - 22mm
What is the correct amount

What is the amount for a 30mm lower rear

Will moving the forks up in the yokes not reduce the trail?

Last edited by Hoghead; 01-05-2014 at 03:16 AM.
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-05-2014, 08:49 AM
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The maximum amount of raising the forks is 22mm or .875" because of the relief machined into the upper fork tubes. Raising forks makes the steering/ handling quicker and slightly less stable, however when the rear suspension is lower 1.85" with the Speedy kit, the overall effect is more stable and slightly less quick in road speed handling. It was only a very slight noticeable difference to me.
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-05-2014, 10:08 AM
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Speedys instructions are a bit vague in exactly how much to lower the front. Reading the threads here most riders take it to the max of 20 - 22mm
You can drop the clamps to here.


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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-07-2014, 03:44 AM Thread Starter
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How much possible is clear, the question is what is the correct amount
Is that 22mm as the instructions are vauge to say the least

What is the calculation to determine how much at the front given X at the rear

So the trail does change?
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-07-2014, 09:31 AM
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Do the same amount on both ends. Sounds like you should probably do the max on the front.
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-07-2014, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by waltermitty View Post
Do the same amount on both ends. Sounds like you should probably do the max on the front.
Seems "weljo" lowered the rear and then the front, THEN moved the front back up to stock height. Says it works great for him.

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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 03:42 AM Thread Starter
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You cannot lower the front the same as the rear as it is on an angle
47mmm at the rear is not 47 at the front and in any case the max is 22mm
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-09-2014, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoghead View Post
I am thinking of different front forks and will need to lower the rear to maintain geometry. At this point the easy way is with a lowering block - maybe not the best way as it will change my spring rate - but easy for now

Speedys kit lowers the rear by 47mm
A local Thai clone (why is that a surprise) lowers the rear 30mm

Speedys instructions are a bit vague in exactly how much to lower the front. Reading the threads here most riders take it to the max of 20 - 22mm
What is the correct amount

What is the amount for a 30mm lower rear

Will moving the forks up in the yokes not reduce the trail?
Want to learn about motorcycle geometry and the effects of changing just one item?

Then this is good reading for all--------->>> CLICKY HERE
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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-11-2014, 03:19 AM Thread Starter
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which is why I am so intrested in moving the forks the right amount, and not just the max allowed by the machined area on the fork leg.

I understand it is not as simplistic of lowering front and rear the same amount, but this is a large factor in minimising the impact on handling when lowering the bike

If I only knew the answer to my post
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-11-2014, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoghead View Post
which is why I am so intrested in moving the forks the right amount, and not just the max allowed by the machined area on the fork leg.

I understand it is not as simplistic of lowering front and rear the same amount, but this is a large factor in minimising the impact on handling when lowering the bike

If I only knew the answer to my post
Interesting that you want to be very precise in your adjustments but you would rely on just anyone on a MC forum to give you that measurement.


in your search!
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-11-2014, 08:11 AM
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which is why I am so intrested in moving the forks the right amount, and not just the max allowed by the machined area on the fork leg.

I understand it is not as simplistic of lowering front and rear the same amount, but this is a large factor in minimising the impact on handling when lowering the bike

If I only knew the answer to my post
It is a simplistic as lowering the front and rear the same amount. Unfortunately, in your case you can't lower the front as much as you should so you lower it as much as you can. The good news is that this, in effect, raises the front which slows turn in and makes the bike more stable.
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-11-2014, 08:11 PM Thread Starter
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I can lower it as much as necessary with shorter forks and that is the route that I am taking

Is it really as simplistic as 47mm on the rear = 47mm further up in the trees? The fork is at a 25 degree angle, so should it not be more than 47mm?
I just do not get the geometry and my mind is becoming addled trying to calculate the length required.

The choice in off the shelf lowering blocks is 30 or 47mm
How does that relate to a shorter fork

Last edited by Hoghead; 01-11-2014 at 08:14 PM.
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-19-2014, 08:10 PM Thread Starter
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IF it is that simplistic as front = rear then I went ahead and bought a 2013 BP-SFF fork off a ZX6R.
shorter than the Versys, but with a 47mm lowering block from Speedy then front = rear with 4 mm of stick up

this now gives me 310mm radial brakes and away from those terrible stock brakes. I already have a Nissin 19mm radial MC off a Z1000 for the stock look

The wheel will need machined for the larger 25mm axle bearings, and lower triple clamp bored 2mm. Easy and cheap here

Which leads me to the next problem. Is the 2013 ZX6R 310mm rotor the same as the 2013-14 Z1000?
The Z1000 is made here in Thailand and I can buy new rotors for 150 USD ea. There are no ZX6 parts and the dealer does not support anything that is not sold here

Part numbers for the ZX6R brakes and ABS ring would be very helpful as I cannot find it on line and as I say no Dealer support
Bike Bandit is my usual source for PN's but no help on these new models
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-22-2014, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Hoghead View Post
IF it is that simplistic as front = rear then I went ahead and bought a 2013 BP-SFF fork off a ZX6R.
shorter than the Versys, but with a 47mm lowering block from Speedy then front = rear with 4 mm of stick up

this now gives me 310mm radial brakes and away from those terrible stock brakes. I already have a Nissin 19mm radial MC off a Z1000 for the stock look

The wheel will need machined for the larger 25mm axle bearings, and lower triple clamp bored 2mm. Easy and cheap here

Which leads me to the next problem. Is the 2013 ZX6R 310mm rotor the same as the 2013-14 Z1000?
The Z1000 is made here in Thailand and I can buy new rotors for 150 USD ea. There are no ZX6 parts and the dealer does not support anything that is not sold here

Part numbers for the ZX6R brakes and ABS ring would be very helpful as I cannot find it on line and as I say no Dealer support
Bike Bandit is my usual source for PN's but no help on these new models
Why would you not just lower the rear drop the front and ride the bike first as per speedys set up...its not like it wont turn or changes the bike so much it becomes a pig, i have done it and its not a big deal, the bike does turn in a little bit slower but its hardly noticeable, i fitted better quality rubber and if anything its better than the stock bike with stock rubber now. Save yourself the time and grief..... after all when they make the bike the geometry was made for the ER6n .... its not like its the BEST set up, it whats ok and suited the parts they had available to make the Versys its not a race bike.... its a bits and pieces bike based on a ER6n.

Last edited by ggg; 01-22-2014 at 05:09 AM.
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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-22-2014, 08:29 PM Thread Starter
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the brakes suck and this is one way to get proper radial calipers, better rotors, and a radial master cylinder

I was going to machine a new bottom casting to hold the radial callipers but this method gives me a better adjustable fork as well.
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post #16 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-22-2014, 08:48 PM
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Nothin' magic about radial calipers or master cylinders. Versys brakes are decent.
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post #17 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-22-2014, 09:59 PM Thread Starter
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decent is a subjective opinion and in any case I want something better than just decent

The bean counters had a hand in the Versys spec sheet and saved money on the push and scrape callipers rather than an opossed piston type. There is no arguement that opossed pistons are better than 1 piston pushing and the calliper sliding.
Radial is simply an improvement on the opposed piston design
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post #18 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-22-2014, 10:32 PM
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Radial calipers make wheel changes on race bikes easier. My other ride is a ZX-10R with two six pot radial calipers in front. I know something about good brakes. The Versys will do two finger stoppies with stock tires. If you are having problems it is operator error.
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post #19 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-23-2014, 01:25 AM Thread Starter
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Not to get into a subjective evaluation of the Versys brakes, but as I say opposed pistons are better than push and scrape
I know good brakes and proper feedback after 44 years of riding and want something better

I think that if you post a question about how good are your Versys brakes you would find that I am not in the minority with my opinion. The thread on brake improvement speaks for itself and my position

If you are happy with your Versys brakes then good for you.
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post #20 of 27 (permalink) Old 01-23-2014, 06:27 AM
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I've been riding for 57 years and came off a KLR so I know crappy brakes.
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