Sub throttle plates, baffles, pair valve? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-12-2008, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
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Sub throttle plates, baffles, pair valve?

So while looking at exhausts for the Versys and it's cousins, I found this video on youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROJ3_...eature=related
I think this guys bike sounds fooking sweet, and after reading the full description, am left wondering what the mods he has listed do? I've heard of somone doing something with the sub throttle plates on some bike before. Anybody have a heads up on this subject? More noise, more performance, I am fond of both!!!
Erik!!!
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-12-2008, 12:57 PM Thread Starter
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A little update, after little looking...
I found this info on the sub throttle plates...
http://www.ninja650.com/phpbb/viewto...2661af1955b67a
Anyone have an opinion on this?
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-12-2008, 01:38 PM
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You mean the airbox baffles? Removing them makes it noisier. I'm keeping mine in... I did remove my sub throttle plates and PAIR, as well as install a Muzzy header and slip on, among other things before I ever started my new Versys. More info here; http://forums.kawasakiversys.com/showthread.php?t=364
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-12-2008, 02:34 PM
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had my two bros installed today, going to pick it up after work and see how she sounds
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-12-2008, 02:38 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks, Invader, I just found that Fortycaliber site!!! I think I will pull off the tank soon and dabble around in there. Do you happen to know if a PCIII is necessary if I remove those sub throttle plates? The Ninja 650 site said the bikes run a bit lean, but that thread you posted says they run rich as the revs rise. I will have a custom exhaust installed next week if that makes a difference. Does the stock puter not compensate somewhat for all this, by noticing different airflow patterns?
Cheers,
Erik!!!
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-12-2008, 03:50 PM
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As I mentioned in that thread, mine runs fine without PCIII... With or without stock muffler, A/F ratio is set lean on bottom for lowered emmissions, then is progressively too rich at higher rpm as depicted in the graph.

Last edited by invader; 06-12-2008 at 03:55 PM.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-13-2008, 04:28 AM Thread Starter
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LOL! Thanks again, Invader, somehow I missed that bit in my haste, patience is not my forte!!!
Cheers,
Erik!!!
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-14-2008, 12:11 AM Thread Starter
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Hey creeper, congrats on your new system, I just read your post about picking it up and hearing it, v.v. nice!!! I should be getting my custom one sometime next week, I hope it sounds as good as yours!!!
And now the topic at hand, I got up this morning and got the job done!!!
Pulling everything off was so much easier than I thought it would be, I was scarred earlier in my moto career... Anyway, I got the tank off and removed the top of the airbox as well. Unfortunately a couple bits of small bit of debris fell onto the main throttle 'flies, so it took me about 20 min to get them out. Took total time of work to about an hour. Got the sub throttle plates off no problem, and dispatched with the airbox intake baffles, and plugged the PAIR valve. Info on the pair valve and it's uselessness (to modded exhaust) is available on the site I posted below. got her all back together, fired her up, no problems. Took her out for a 25 mile ride, and fukken wow!!! Removing those baffles unleashed the demon (sound wise). The intake roar is massive loud, and sounds like it is ready to eat anything that gets in it's way!!! Very nice in my opinion! the sound is very much like what an intake system does for your car. Very happy with this tiny free mod. Power-wise, can't say for sure as it's not dyno tested, I've read the mods give some power, It does feel a bit snappier (I believe the plates I removed serve largely to smooth power delivery as they are servo operated, and might not whack open as fast as you twist the throttle) and maybe pulls a bit better, but it could be all in my head, since it sounds so much meaner. One more note, I did have a couple of hiccups on full throttle in third gear, but this only happened twice early on, and has not happened since, I will let you know if it happens again. Either way, I likey!!!
Fukken cheers,
Erik!!!
Oh, for detailed instructions on how to perform these mods, go to
http://fortycaliber.org/
The guy does a great job with instructions and photos, albeit on a ninja 650, very little difference.

Last edited by Motodevil; 06-14-2008 at 12:30 AM.
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-14-2008, 06:13 AM
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Thanx for the link Motodevil. Very informative. I'll be doing this as soon as my warranty runs out.
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-14-2008, 08:06 PM
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No problemo, StonedGP...
I took the throttle bodies out and filed down the protruding metal shards from the threads on the shafts. I also matched the rubber flange ID to the intake ports by enlarging it at the lip. Exhaust port outlets are a bit small and rough. I may smooth them out next winter...

Last edited by invader; 06-14-2008 at 08:13 PM.
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-17-2008, 09:33 PM
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Just for everyone's info, I bought a PCIII and Invader is right about the fuel map. When I compared the stock PCIII map with the Versys' stock map it too shows that Kawasaki jets lean then rich up high. The PCIII enriches the curve down low and richens it up higher.

PCIII, sub-throttles removed, baffles removed, stock exhaust. After installing the PC and doing the mods (all at once), the bike is quicker to rev, uses about more fuel (mpg dropped to 45), and is a bit snappier. I think from prior experience that a slipon gives more bang for the buck. I'll just have to see if a good filter and exhaust along with the PCIII is very benificial.
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motodevil View Post
and plugged the PAIR valve. Info on the pair valve and it's uselessness (to modded exhaust) is available on the site I posted below.

Oh, for detailed instructions on how to perform these mods, go to
http://fortycaliber.org/
The guy does a great job with instructions and photos, albeit on a ninja 650, very little difference.
You should take advice you read on the web with a grain of salt (includes my advice as well... ). Large one in this case. That "justification" for plugging the PAIR valve is not technically correct. The PAIR valve is effective even if you do not have a catalytic converter. You'll find a PAIR valve on many pre-catcon bikes. On almost every bike forum there is info about blocking PAIR valves. It seems a lot of people are offended by the look, say it gets in the way when they are working on the bike or many other excuses.

Removing the PAIR valve does nothing for the bike's performance, only sends more unburnt hydrocarbons to the atmosphere. Removing the catalytic converter allows a significantly larger amount of nitrogen oxides, carbon monoxide and unburnt hydrocarbons to be exhausted. I'm not going to tell you whether or not you should remove either, but think about your contribution to polluting your environment when you do.

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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-22-2008, 03:29 AM
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The PAIR valve does add air to exhaust gases only upon engine braking, resulting in less HC, NOx and HC emissions for the catalytic converter to process, and reduced final emissions. It also curbs afterburn, thus reducing strain on catalytic converter, increasing its lifespan... While removing the PAIR has no performance benefits whatsoever, it does reduce exhaust popping under engine braking with a low restriction, noise polluting slip-on exhaust.

Last edited by invader; 06-22-2008 at 05:04 AM.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-23-2008, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
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Well, I actually had not thought about it killing a bit more pollution by burning it off when the ox enters the exhaust. Makes sense. I plugged it not for a gain, but as Invader mentioned, just to reduce popping upon decel. I don't try to kill the environment, but I am already riding a bike, which is my little contribution to harming less. I have since writing this already added an exhaust, which I love having, not one moron has pulled out in front of me with it yet!!! Brutally loud makes some folk irritable, but at least they know you're there, right?
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-24-2008, 12:36 AM
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but I am already riding a bike, which is my little contribution to harming less.
Well, actually, that's only partially true. You emit less CO2 riding a bike by virtue of its lower fuel consumption (these are directly related). But, since you removed the catalytic converter and the PAIR system you probably emit more unburned hydrocarbons (HC), CO and NOx than a Hummer per mile traveled. A lot more.

A couple of examples, courtesy of EPA certification data (your tax dollars at work). Data for bikes is from 2005, since that was a year that some models were certified in both variants in the US:

2005 Honda CBR1000RR w/air injection w/o catcon: Pwr- 123kW; HC - 1.13g/km; CO - 9g/km; CO2 - 125 g/km.
2005 Honda CBR1000RR with w/air injection and catcon: Pwr- 122kW; HC - 0.49g/km; CO - 3g/km; CO2 - 135 g/km

2005 Suzuki DL650 w/air injection w/o catcon: Pwr- 49kW; HC - 0.80g/km; CO - 6.6g/km; CO2 - 94g/km.
2005 Suzuki DL650 w/w/air injection and catcon: Pwr- 49kW; HC - 0.43g/km; CO - 3.4g/km; CO2 - 99g/km.

2007 Hummer H3 5cyl: Pwr - Not rated; HC - 0.071g/km; CO - 0.38g/km; CO2 - 346g/km.

2007 Honda Civic 1.8l: Pwr - Not rated; HC - 0.023g/km; CO - 0.19g/km; CO2 - 158g/km.


Riding an older tech bike without a catcon and air injection system isn't quite as environmentally friendly as some people think. Actually, even riding one with both (assuming you ride something that gets decent mileage)the only advantage is in CO2 emissions, but you still emit more unburnt HC and CO than modern cars due to the fuel system and engine design.

Gustavo

Last edited by Gustavo; 06-24-2008 at 12:48 AM.
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post #16 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-24-2008, 12:56 AM
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Kill a cow, eat some beef. Then you have offset the effect of removing the cat and plugging the PAIR valve.
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post #17 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-24-2008, 01:05 AM
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Kill a cow, eat some beef. Then you have offset the effect of removing the cat and plugging the PAIR valve.
Hmmm, BBQ... If you invite us, we will come...


Gustavo
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post #18 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 06:49 AM
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Times are changing

+1 on staying stock. I do watch the reports on the PCIII tho, would love to be able to tune out the little roughness down low but hate to loose my miles per gallon (56).

Loud pipes are forever gone in my garage. Been there done that with the harleys. People in the neighborhood know where you are from several blocks away and how you ride to boot, not a good thing, especially when you love your quiet home country living.

I am a bowhunter (deer, elk) and go on public land (WMAs and Wilderness) as a hunter we can see changes that are not going to be reversed in our lifetime, shame. Nothing left in the wilderness (bring out what you bring in) but I do find litter sometimes even way back 10miles in from trailhead.

I also hate ATVs that go off trail, okay don't get me started.

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post #19 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-26-2008, 09:35 AM
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+2 on staying stock.

I may add a few farkles for touring, but I'll be leaving the powertrain stock.

Don
"ride more, worry less"
2005 Suzuki GSXR1000 (slightly bent) - Track
2000 Honda VFR800 - Street
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post #20 of 28 (permalink) Old 06-30-2008, 04:43 PM Thread Starter
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Right, guess I'll be having that burger after all!!!
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