AFR Qustion - 2016 Versys 650 & Delkevic 8" Carbon Fiber Full System - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 02-02-2020, 12:50 AM Thread Starter
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Question AFR Qustion - 2016 Versys 650 & Delkevic 8" Carbon Fiber Full System

Hi Everyone,

Finally managed to go to the local shop to install the Full Delkevic 8" Carbon Fiber system. Based on their site they claim that no remapping should be necessary but after before/after dyno run I think it is a must.

For those of you who have tuned/ECU flashed their bikes, what AFR were you aiming for, what gave you overall best results? I came across one article saying that about 12.8:1 would give you the best results. Just wondering what your experience has been?
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 02-02-2020, 10:04 AM
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Hard to see what the AFR numbers are on the bottom box of your graph. Also, depending on how that measurement was taken it could be deceptive, is there a port for the O2 sensor in that exhaust?

Steve who does ECU tuning for this bike is the absolute expert on the matter, hopefully he will chime in. All I know is that if you have 10% ethanol in your fuel, stoich is lowered from 14.7 to 14.1 (or 14.3 tuners seem to use both) so optimal power occurs at a number lower than 12.8 also
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2016 Versys 650LT - Madstad, T-Bob, LeoVince, SeatConcepts, HyperPro CSC Damper, Shoodabeen Flashed
2003 KLR 685 - +1mm IN & EX SS valves P&P, Innovate Wideband O2 Sensor, Progressive 465 w/ RAP, ThermoBob
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 02-25-2020, 09:05 PM
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yeah, the AFR changes depending on the amount of throttle. and if you're thinking you can use a pcv to tune, you've overlooked that all light throttle and decel throttle comes from the map sensor / iap maps.

folks might remember that in the beginning I talked about the idea the you can get power AND economy with EFI. that's because the fueling is adjusted and not just a singular AFR. Hope this helps - steve
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 02-29-2020, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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So I've got a question, if you look at the dyno results above, more specifically the AFR, you'll see that after the tuning the AFR is much higher. The guys at the shop told me that it looks like it only because the initial reading with stock exhaust was at the mid pipe ( about 13.07) and the final one wasn't in mid pipe because of the DB killer so it was calculating it closer to the end of the exhaust giving a different value around 15 up to 15.46. I uploaded another image, hope this one is easier to see. Does that make sense?

Also they told me that while tuning (remapping the ECU) they'd see live data for all rpms including low/mid and make sure the bike is not running lean. I am just not sure how that would work, would that reading come from the engine or would it come from the sensor in the pipe that they've put in, and given that it's further out due to the DB killer how accurate would it be?

BTW you can see the video from they dyno session here:
that was the final run after the remapping.

My main concern is that the engine doesn't run lean so that I don't kill it on my long trips. I do notice fair bit of backfire if I get hard on the throttle and then back off it all the way, at least in 1/2/3 gear. Also I think the bike is running a bit hotter as the temperature in the city almost never goes below 90C when riding between 40-50km/h. Keep in mind it is between 30-35C here right now. Once I hit 75-80km/h it goes down to about 86c. Or maybe it's just in my head.

Here is a link to cleaner image of the dyno run: https://www.dropbox.com/s/br4qsvfzru...dyno.jpeg?dl=0

What do you guys think?
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 02-29-2020, 07:26 PM
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So it sounds like they are using a probe to monitor AFR that is inserted as far down the pipe as possible from the end of the tailpipe, is that right?

If they are using a probe, it totally makes sense that a shorter insertion would yield a leaner AFR reading so I wouldnt worry too much about that. If it is a reputable shop I wouldn't get too concerned about double checking their work.

The backfiring could be due to the air injection system, and is not necessarily due to lean running.

2016 Versys 650LT - Madstad, T-Bob, LeoVince, SeatConcepts, HyperPro CSC Damper, Shoodabeen Flashed
2003 KLR 685 - +1mm IN & EX SS valves P&P, Innovate Wideband O2 Sensor, Progressive 465 w/ RAP, ThermoBob
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 06:55 PM
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ahhh, lot's going on here. you got a WOT tune and that's it. That's why you have backfiring and it's running hotter. they didn't tune all the rest of the map.

I tune the entire map. It takes me a long time to do it. Months sometimes. I spent 4 months on the versys 650.

All that stuff about the afr's and the probe... I wouldn't play that. if they can't get undiluted readings, it's all BS. sorry. and if they didn't shut down and block the pair system, the afr's are off bad anyways.

I'm not trying to be critical, but I AM telling y'all the truth.

Steve
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 03-02-2020, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve in Sunny Fl View Post
ahhh, lot's going on here. you got a WOT tune and that's it. That's why you have backfiring and it's running hotter. they didn't tune all the rest of the map.

I tune the entire map. It takes me a long time to do it. Months sometimes. I spent 4 months on the versys 650.

All that stuff about the afr's and the probe... I wouldn't play that. if they can't get undiluted readings, it's all BS. sorry. and if they didn't shut down and block the pair system, the afr's are off bad anyways.

I'm not trying to be critical, but I AM telling y'all the truth.

Steve
You can own professional tools and be a professional, just because you own the tools and have a piece of paper stating you are a professional is meaningless if you don't know how to use the tools or are just smart on paper. I know the flash by Steve puts a smile on my face, offer me $2000 and I might sell my ECU, because before I sell it I will have a second one flashed by Steve. No doubt in my mind that Steve is the real deal, anytime he takes the effort to post, the information given is welcomed, and I can say we all learn from it!

On another note , the previous stuck threads in the members only are now unstuck due to another members point of view. For now I am going to run a poll and explain the rest there.
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