Target AFR? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
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post #1 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-09-2011, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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Target AFR?

This is my configuration

Versys 2008 with:

Er6's cams & ecu
Snorkels removed with DNA filter installed
Arrow headers
Mivv x-cone with db killer installed
14t front sprochet
PCV+Autotune

Can you help me find the best SAFE afr for performance?

Right now my target afr's are like this
From 2% to 20% gas, 13.5
At 40%, 13.4
At 60% 13.3
At 80% & 100%, 13.2
They are the same for all rpm's

I have good low end, not so good midrange, and very good high end(until redline) but i know that i can get a little bit more
I want to fix the midrange and get better at high end
Want should i target?
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post #2 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-09-2011, 06:51 PM
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You're a little lean still. Verify with a plug check. You should see a tan coloration on OLD plugs, do not use new. My bet is that they are somewhat "white". Shoot for 12.8+/- off idle through mid and top.

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post #3 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-09-2011, 06:54 PM Thread Starter
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So you say to put target afr 12.8% for 60%+ gas and for more than 5000rpm's?
And leave it lean(13.5) at low end and <40% of gas?
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post #4 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-09-2011, 08:09 PM
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If you have Autotune, let it set up the A/F ratios. You have to plug the computer in and accept the offsets after every ride because there's a 20% limit on changes. When you do that, the offsets go on the map permanently and the offset table resets to zero. Keep doing this, and you'll see the amount of offset get smaller as the map gets near optimum. What you're doing is at cross purposes with what the Autotune module is doing. You're wasting the money you spent on the autotune by plugging in A/F ratios manually. I've been using one of these for two years now, and have it dialed in perfectly.

And forget trying to read sparkplugs except in a very general sense. It doesn't work on a street ridden bike.

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Last edited by ttpete; 02-09-2011 at 08:11 PM.
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post #5 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-09-2011, 09:31 PM
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I would aim for 13.9:1 at 5-20% (cruise), 13.4:1 at 40%, 13.3:1 at 60%, 13.2:1 at 80%, and 13.1:1 at 100% throttle.

Dynojet: "The PCV is configured to only allow the software to trim +/- 20% until you manually accept the trims. You can alter these limits in the Auto Tune configuration. The more the PCV learns, the lower you can make this value. By lowering this value it will work as a safety net so if something should go wrong in the unit or bike it will not cause the bike to run poorly.

• If fuel mileage is a concern, then you can alter the Target AFR values in the cruise range. Dynojet considers the cruise range to be around 5-20% throttle. Dynojet does not recommend making the bike any leaner than 14.7 in the Target AFR cells.
• Dynojet has found that for the best compromise of fuel mileage and throttle response, to set the cruise range to 13.7-14.0.
• For all other ranges 12.8-13.4 seems to work best."

Last edited by invader; 02-09-2011 at 09:34 PM.
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post #6 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-09-2011, 11:46 PM
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Mine is set at 14.3 in the cruise range...mileage still woefull. As you have probably seen I am trying to learn how many miles pcIII/V users are getting to a tank of gas since I am only getting obut 180. What are you guys getting?

"When It Rains, Get Wet"
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post #7 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-10-2011, 01:34 AM Thread Starter
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Off course i dont set the a/f manually, only the target afr
The all story is why i lost midrange after installing the pipes
I was aspecting to lose low end, but not midrange, thats the problem
I decided to make some tests, to see how the feel of the bike is

1)All target afr to 13.5
2)All target afr to 13

*I saw that i have good torque response in low end(which i have 2%-20% throtle, but as i set my throtle to the middle(40%-60%) i lose torque, so from this i understand that i must set target afr 13.1-13.2 only at the high end or/and for 80%-100% torque
What do you think for my thought?

Thx all for the help
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post #8 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-10-2011, 03:33 AM
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Settings for 5-20%, 40%, 60% and 80% should not affect torque output at 100% throttle.
For optimum fuel economy, you can try it up to 14.7:1 (stoichometric) at 5-20%. See if response suffers too much and find an acceptable setting that is just rich enough for acceptable driveability. Throttle opening is at more than 20% at higher freeway speeds. You could try 40% throttle at about 14:1, then richen (13.9 and lower) just enough for desired response. .. I can only adjust 100% throttle (open loop) on my car which produces most torque at about 13.2:1. Otherwise, it always cycles between 14.7 ~ 15.2:1 at anything but WOT (100% throttle), and runs flawlessly.
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post #9 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-10-2011, 04:35 AM Thread Starter
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The truth is that my bike perfoms very well
The only problem is the loss of torque at midrange(5-6000) with the HALF of gas
With low throtle the response iv very positive(2-20%)
This ''problem'' came out AFTER installing the arrow headers, before that it was ok
I repeat that at 2-20% i have 13.5 and at 40-60%, 13.4-13.3
Maybe the problem is that at midrange my bike wants to be leaner, maybe 13.5 all the time, and at WOT(and for more than 6000rpms) something between 13.2-13

I have to try

*I read somewhere that a leaner mix produce more torque, and a richer produce more power.Is that right?

P.S. Offcourse i care for economy, but firstly i want to make the bike perform well, and then i try other settings
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post #10 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-10-2011, 04:43 AM
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No... Maximum torque is achieved at about 10% richer than stoichometric (13~13.2:1). You get maximum horsepower with maximum torque. Torque (ft-lbs) multiplied by RPM, divided by 5252 = Horsepower.
Maximum fuel economy is at almost 10% leaner than stoichometric.

You could try a bit leaner at 40-60% throttle. You could also try reinstalling your airbox snorkels.

Last edited by invader; 02-10-2011 at 04:54 AM.
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post #11 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-10-2011, 05:06 AM Thread Starter
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If i install again the snorkels, is it sure that i will not lose top end cause to less air pass?

So you suggest me to put target afr to 13.2 in all boxes(2-20, 80%, 100%)
and try 13.5 at 40% & 60%?

Any suggestions are acceptable, i will try everything
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post #12 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-10-2011, 05:48 AM
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Try it with the snorkels back in and see what happens... Try about 13.5~13.7:1 at 5-20% (leave 2% stock), 13.4~13.6:1 at 40%, 13.3~13.5:1 at 60%, 13.2~13.4:1 at 80%, and 13.0~13.2:1 at 100% throttle.

Last edited by invader; 02-10-2011 at 05:54 AM.
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post #13 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-10-2011, 06:03 AM Thread Starter
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I use as reference map the 508 of er6 2009
I cant understand why they didnt add a target afrr map, as the other maps have(001,002,003)
Check it, the maps 501,502,etc dont have target afr map
i am thinking to use this first
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post #14 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-10-2011, 07:14 AM
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This is all greek to me.
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post #15 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-10-2011, 07:39 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan V View Post
This is all greek to me.
For me too

I am searching the whole internet to take a decision, and when i am close to set ''near 13.5'', i open new windows from some forums that they suggest ''near 12.8'', and then i change decision again and again and again

Maybe there is not an answer, it is only TRY IT and see
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post #16 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-10-2011, 09:16 AM
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Wow...ok...
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post #17 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-10-2011, 10:19 AM
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It is always a wise practice to start rich, then work the other way. I disagree TTpete that "plug checks don't work on a street bike". It certainly can be an indicator if read properly, and the test is controlled. Ideally, the leaner the ratio, the better the fuel economy, as I think everyone agrees. To try and find the best-mpg vs performance is the dilemma. All bets are off when mods are at play such as this case. Cruising at part throttle at 40 mph / 2500rpm will get along just fine at leaner settings. Go to accelerate at that same rpm and it could fall flat on it's face unless it's rich enough.
There are a lot of great suggestions here. Try them all....

2011 ZSX 1000
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Bag Connection AERO saddlebags
Garmin Nuvi 550 rammed
Kuso heated grips
ZG touring windscreen / CalSci Tall
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post #18 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-10-2011, 11:04 AM
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I don't need to do plug readings. I can ride with my little netbook on the tank top and read A/F ratio directly off the program. Again, looking at spark plugs that have been run on the street under all kinds of different conditions can only give a general idea of what's going on. I did plug chops on racebikes for years, and starting with new plugs and doing several laps ending with an ignition cut at WOT is the only precise way to take readings.

What I did was to load the 002 (slip-on) map and let the Autotune modify it. The map was pretty close to begin with, and I have good fueling overall now. Driveability and power are great. If I felt I was having problems, I'd schedule a dyno session and have a custom map created for me. As it is, I'm quite pleased with it.

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post #19 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-10-2011, 11:48 AM Thread Starter
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I have results
Just tried the dynojet's target afr, and the bike goes better at all rpm's/throtle positions
I love it
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post #20 of 73 (permalink) Old 02-10-2011, 12:42 PM
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What A/F ratios are Dynojet's target settings at?
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