Full Arrow system or slip on? - Kawasaki Versys Forum
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-18-2010, 05:51 PM Thread Starter
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Full Arrow system or slip on?

Hi

I have been toying with the idea of fitting an arrow (or poss Remus) slip on. However I am wondering whether I should actually go the whole way and fit the full Arrow system. Any thoughts on the added value of the full system? I wouldn't mind a bit more power but not if it is all top end at the expense of midrange.

Finally I suppose I need to know, is a power commander required for either or both? I have always put aftermarket cans on my bikes and non of them have required tuning.

Cheers. E
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-18-2010, 05:52 PM
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slip on...keep it simple.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-18-2010, 06:41 PM
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Im very satisfied with my set up...

TBR slip on (carbon fiber), TBR Juicebox(no dyno needed), arrow headers (used and found on this forum).

My total cost, about $850.

If you did a full arrow system with carbon canister, PC and dyno, that could run you 1100-1200.

08 Versys (Red)
Two Brothers Slip-On V.A.L.E.™ Exhaust
Two Brothers Juice Box
Arrow Headers
Motowerk Lowering kit w/Flatfoot
SW-MOTECH Crashbars/Engine Guards w/Hwy Pegs
SW-MOTECH mirror wideners
Rear Spool Sliders

~Comming soon~
Front Axel Sliders
Red LED Body Kit


1980 Kawi KZ1000 LTD
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-18-2010, 08:06 PM
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Garage
Just go slip on. You can gain a few HP's with a full, but you will need a tuner. I have a Arrow slip on on the bike, and headers on the shelf. I dont feel like spending all the extra money for little gain.

08' Versys
Givi racks with V35 sides, and V46 Top-case, Garmin Zumo 450 GPS, Powermadd Handguards, Motowerks GPS Mount, Peg Lowering kit, Flat Foot, Arrow Exhaust, Adjustable Levers, GIPro Gear Indicator, Oxford Heated Grips
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-19-2010, 09:00 AM
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A header will help some. But should be low on the list of mods.
I've talked with many tuners, and they feel the Juice Box is not that great.
PCV and Auto Tune is the top choice for the 650 Kawi engine.
Before adding a header, I would do :
Remove snorkels
My air box mod http://www.brp650forum.com/phpbb3/vi...hp?f=11&t=2144
DNA air filter
PCV/Auto Tune
I have 2 different options of velocity stacks that you can toy with to fine tune your power band http://blueridgeperformance.net/brpengines.html
Also upgrading to my custom Barnett springs makes a big difference.


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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-19-2010, 05:48 PM
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My Dyno numbers...
http://www.kawasakiversys.com/forums...highlight=dyno

08 Versys (Red)
Two Brothers Slip-On V.A.L.E.™ Exhaust
Two Brothers Juice Box
Arrow Headers
Motowerk Lowering kit w/Flatfoot
SW-MOTECH Crashbars/Engine Guards w/Hwy Pegs
SW-MOTECH mirror wideners
Rear Spool Sliders

~Comming soon~
Front Axel Sliders
Red LED Body Kit


1980 Kawi KZ1000 LTD
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-19-2010, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BRP View Post
I've talked with many tuners, and they feel the Juice Box is not that great.
PCV and Auto Tune is the top choice for the 650 Kawi engine.
What's the difference between the JuiceBox and the Power Commander?
1. Price - The JB offers the same amount or even more performance gains at a better price point.
2. Simple adjustments - Make fine-tune adjustments with your Juicebox using push button interface. NO computers are required. NO dynamometer tuning is required. NO downloading different maps for changes in vehicle modifications. This simplicity allows you to optimize your fuel solution to maximize drive ability and performance.
3. Load Based Technology - The Juicebox offers a better fuel solution for every driving condition and within every gear by basing fuel addition on engine load. The Power Commander uses throttle position and RPM technology which optimizes performance for only 4th gear.

08 Versys (Red)
Two Brothers Slip-On V.A.L.E.™ Exhaust
Two Brothers Juice Box
Arrow Headers
Motowerk Lowering kit w/Flatfoot
SW-MOTECH Crashbars/Engine Guards w/Hwy Pegs
SW-MOTECH mirror wideners
Rear Spool Sliders

~Comming soon~
Front Axel Sliders
Red LED Body Kit


1980 Kawi KZ1000 LTD

Last edited by thecreeper77; 11-19-2010 at 07:01 PM.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-20-2010, 07:59 AM
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You seem pretty well informed --not !
How many race bikes run the Juice Box- not many.
Most run Bazzaz,Kit ECU's or PCV/Auto Tune.
The Auto Tune just about eliminates the need for a dyno tuning,
hence the name" Auto Tune" it learns as you ride.
So you think pushing buttons on a little box gives you the same benefits
as a 2 piece unit connected to your exhaust via an o2 sensor, it
does not. We ran Dobek units 7 years ago on our SV's along with
an o2 sensor and gauge, so we could map properly.
The Juice Box, as I said is ok, no where near as capable as the others mentioned.


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Last edited by BRP; 11-20-2010 at 08:06 AM.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-20-2010, 12:36 PM
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$500 more for a couple of HP, if that, doenst seem worth it to me.

If there is anyone out there thats close enough to me with the same or similar set up with a PC, Id like to have a Dyno shoot maybe even a drag race shoot out (at a track of course) to see what numbers we really get.

08 Versys (Red)
Two Brothers Slip-On V.A.L.E.™ Exhaust
Two Brothers Juice Box
Arrow Headers
Motowerk Lowering kit w/Flatfoot
SW-MOTECH Crashbars/Engine Guards w/Hwy Pegs
SW-MOTECH mirror wideners
Rear Spool Sliders

~Comming soon~
Front Axel Sliders
Red LED Body Kit


1980 Kawi KZ1000 LTD
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-20-2010, 01:17 PM
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Depending on how good you are at mapping, and again, you're
not going to be spot on, without an o2 sensor/ gauge/ dyno,
it's not so much about hp, but more about your power curve.
You can be lean, and make more hp, rich less hp.
The object is to get it clean throughout the entire rpm range,
that's where the Auto Tune has the advantage over programmer
such as the Juice Box, Dobeck, and other such boxes.
Like I said, I've asked several tuners who are well respected,
and none of them had much good to say about the Juice Box.
If they did, I would be selling them on my site.


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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-20-2010, 05:12 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the comments. I am not that desperate for a few extra horses so will probably just go for the slip on. It seems like a full system etc is costly and a lot of aggro for not much extra go. In reality what I want is a better look and more importantly a better sound! E
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-20-2010, 09:20 PM
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I had the full set up but find I'm happier with just the end can. Once I took the header off, I was surprised how much low end torque I had lost with the header on. The header makes up for it at the top end, but for what you gain and what you spend, it's not worth it. Stick with the end can, save the cash.

And to Creeper.... most people with or without a juicebox/pC3/PC5/end can/header etc... are going to be pretty close to you regardless. Sorry to say, but it's true.

2007 Versys Black, V35 Bags, H&B Bars, Skidmarx Hugger.Fender Ex., Avon Distanzia, Braided Lines, Hella 65W bulbs Arrow Can, DNA Air filter, GIVI tall screen (for winter), PCIII, Baldwin Saddle. **SOLD**

2011 KTM SM-T. Crash bars, E55 Top Box, Fender extender front and rear.

Last edited by Red Herring; 11-21-2010 at 11:50 AM.
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